For all those who think Tommy Jordan is a great dad...

[Phasmal]

Aren't people making too much of a deal about this?
I saw it the other day and pretty much went `Meh, you would have really saved yourself some money by just selling the thing`.

Either you went `Yeah! Show your kid's who's boss!` or `Jesus that guy's a bit mental`, but either way does it matter?

But this whole abusive relationship is a bit overblown, isn't it? Surely, if someone was actually worried about this child (and pretty much EVERYONE has seen the video) authorties would be called and claims would be investigated.
I think this guy is neither a hero of parenting nor is he a monster.
He's just some guy who lost his temper and shot a laptop.

 

[krazykidd]

Well obviously OP doesn't know what parenting is . Maybe shooting the laptop was a bit much , but using ot as target practice really isn't that bad . Hell i would have made the daughter destroy it ( not with a gun obviously).

 

[McMullen]

Read this:

AM I BEING ABUSED?

Does your partner:

embarrasses the other person with put-downs
looks or acts in ways that are frightening
tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes
tries to stop the other person from seeing friends or family members
tries to take the other person?s money or Social Security check
makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared
makes all of the decisions
threatens to take away or hurt the children
prevents the other person from working or attending school
acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused
destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets
intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons
shoves,slaps, chokes or hits the other person
forces the other person to try and drop charges
threatens to commit suicide
threatens to kill the other person
If you answered ?yes? to even one of these questions,you may be in an abusive relationship.For support and more information please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or at TTY 1-800-787-3224.

Bold text mine.

Now, for discusion, do you still think this man is awesome??

I'm a lot more worried about people like you than I am about people like him. If you watch the video again, you might notice that he tried other measures first. He did not reach for the gun at the first sign of trouble, he responded to her prior antics with groundings. Obviously, that wasn't working, and his daughter clearly has serious issues with entitlement, laziness, greed, and contempt for others. So, he did one of the only things you can do when things get that bad: demonstrate that this shit is not OK, and has consequences.

Now, as to whether it'll actually change anything for the better, I have no idea. In my experience that kind of behavior is a symptom of failure to learn how to function in society, combined with a generous helping of self-deception. She probably really believes she is in the right and everyone is just being unreasonable, so will likely just take this as another example of how evil her parents are. About the only thing I know of that ever makes people snap out of this is time, repeated demonstrations that their outlook on life is not getting them anywhere, and luck.

This guy was a model of restraint. He didn't do this in front of his daughter, did it in a safe place, relied on public humiliation to try to bring her around rather than direct threats of violence or intimidation. The only thing I can think of as to why people are getting upset about this is that he used a gun to destroy the laptop. If he'd used a hammer, axe, gravity, or even the garbage truck and landfill, I doubt people would be as concerned about it.

A gun is not an inherently evil thing. At its most basic, it's a tool for throwing specialized rocks at high speed. There aren't many applications for this outside weaponization, though I've seen a few (seismic surveys, for one). Because of its association with killing though, people get all bent out of shape over them. I've never fired or owned a gun, and I don't expect to, but I am still baffled and annoyed at all this hand-wringing that goes on concerning firearms.

 

[Forgetitnow344]

Who the fuck is Tommy Jordan? Should I know? Should I care?

Spoiler: This guy

Next question to the parents around here: are you raising children, or older teens? Because authoritarian (As opposed to authoritative) parenting does work... up to about the age of 12. Once kids hit adolescence and start trying to forge an identity separate from their parents, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

Does it matter? Is it not possible to switch parenting styles once a child gets to the point where your current technique is less effective then another. Seems like a logically plan to me, continuing to do something that isn't working seems pretty silly to me.

Honestly you should try being a parent before trying to lecture people who are already in the trenches, so to speak.

Actually, a shocking amount of parents don't even know what the hell they're doing. Taking a psychology or child development course or two are the only ones who should be giving any kind of lecturing. The father's heart was in the right place, but it sounds to me like he may have been spoiling his daughter before and has now turned a 180 with this video. It would be MUCH more helpful if there was more to each side of the story.

The biggest problem with this is all of the reactions from various parents. Tommy Jordan has now become the biggest role model for parents who are in the power struggle stage with their adolescents regardless of their situation. His daughter also exists as a straw man for many parents to go, "Yeah, that's my punk-ass kid who needs a lesson taught! Hey, Billy! I should shoot up your computer too, you little shit!" This situation just needs to die. It was only ever meant to be a way for the father to punish and humiliate his daughter the way she humiliated him on Facebook. Parents take massive offense to children speaking out against them. This has all just been blown way too far out of proportion.

 

[evilneko]

Does not change my opinion at all.

 

[ElPatron]

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

In no way he seemed frightening, and he did not threaten anyone with a gun.

He discharged the gun into soft ground, in his property, with nobody around.


So you decided to share your views by resorting to biased people, whose views obviously back yours up. Good move.

In my mind, rednecks = idiots who think all problems are best solved with guns. Dont really care where they are from.

(I should have said that though. Obviously my own definition of redneck isnt known nor relevant.)

Yeah, you're kind of a hateful person, aren't you?

No matter how much I distance myself from rednecks there is a lot more to them than just guns and violence.


In fact, I bet rednecks are less violent than you. If there is something I have to say about them, is that at least they won't try to change who you are, and won't care about your quirks, and they just want to live their lives without people treading on them.

 

[DoPo]

Other people commented on the "abuse checklist" I doubt I'll add much but I'll do it too. Also, OP, I'm about as old as you and not a parent.

makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

Are you seriously suggesting that his daughter automatically gets the rights of his salary? I don't think so. Allowance is a privilege, not a right. At least that's how I grew up. I wasn't being owed money for my existence, than you very much, and I was a single child. The father's salary is for the family that doesn't mean that when he gets it he has to immediately make several piles of money and label them "Me", "Daughter" and "Wife" (and "Dog"?) - that means all the money that goes for petty things like food, bills and perhaps household related stuff (repairs, a new couch etc.). Yes, his wife can get a share of the money but his daughter - no, she has to prove deserves them. Proving can be as simple as "don't do bad things" or it may involve some actual effort involved, such as "make your bed" (oh so much effort). From what the father says, it doesn't seem like a lot. I mean, it's almost basic stuff, to the point that it can hardly be called a chore.

tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes
makes all of the decisions

Good job, you described "parents". These are irrelevant.

tries to take the other person?s money or Social Security check

I just wander why didn't bold this. Or did you realize that the daughter doesn't have money, nor is she (inherently) owed some.

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

Any proof of that? Certainly didn't do it in the video. Come on, OP that's just a blatant lie.

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

For this to be true, you have to accept that his behaviour is abusive. You didn't give satisfactory proof it was.

That leaves us with looks or acts in ways that are frightening which is purely subjective and he didn't do it in person, furthermore, the video wasn't intended for his daughter (he also mentions that he doubts her seeing the video soon. Apparently, he showed it to her and she wasn't frightened). embarrasses the other person with put-downs slightly iffy as, one, he's a parent, a certain amount of put-downs is allowed (some may seem "required") to him, two, it was just one video. Unless you have information about the family's life you haven't shared, I'm not inclined to believe you on this.

Oh and destroys the other person's property or threatens to kill pets - "her property" may be a bit of a stretch. This one is very arguable because of her being still a child and whether or not you can call the laptop hers if the father paid for it and looked after it. At any rate, this is the closest to be true from your list. However, I think this item from your list means that for it to be abuse, one has to do it routinely. The father doesn't. He did it once.

 

[DkLnBr]

- looks or acts in ways that are frightening

He looked frightening? When? Do you really get "frightened" by someone shooting a thing in a field? Oo

- tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

Well... That's what parents do with childs. Here where I live you aren't allowed to be out in the streets after a certain hour unless you reached 18y. Strict parenting is not abuse.

- makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

His salary is not supposed to be shared. He has to maintain a certain quality of living and if he spends several hundred dollars on her laptop I'm pretty sure that girl doesn't has a life without money... And since there was already an answer to that topic I'd suggest you read it.

- destroys the other person's property or threatens to kill pets

It wasn't her property. He bought it, upgraded it and spend money on the software.

- intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

He did not do that. He was in a freaking field, the daughter was nowhere near him.

- If you answered 'yes' to even one of these questions,you may be in an abusive relationship.

And there we have a problem:

This thing is supposed to determine if you are in a abusive RELATIONSHIP. It clearly speaks of partners, not parents. And the relationship between parents and childs is quite different. According to that every parent besides those idiotic hippie - "I allow my children to do whatever they want" is abusive. Even one line of those is enough for that: "makes all of the decisions"

So yes, I still think he is awesome. I have no problem that he used a gun to destroy his property (and I am not American). I don't find him in any way more threatening than my parents when I was punished for dooing shit and their "talk".

All of this. He isnt abusing his daughter (for the reasons already stated) he's trying to get through to what sounds like his spoiled rebellious daughter. Maybe if Owyn_Merrilin were to find an "abusive parent" list instead of an "abusive partner" list, then it would be a little more credible

 

[Roy Rogers]

well he was wrong in it watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqNm-yFCZo

 

[targren]

As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.

Actually, it does. A huge difference since the spouse relationship dynamic (at least a healthy one) is FAR REMOVED from the parent/child dynamic.According your complete and wholly irresponsible misuse of this list, a parent making the parental decisions is abusive. You not only misuse the term, but you minimize the actual abuse suffered by real people.

Protip: Stop throwing around words like "abuse" before you actually mess up someone's life.

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

This is meant for someone in a relationship not a child. Half the things on this list are a parnets job. They're suppose to decided the childs life because the kid is too young to do it themselves.

And when it comes down to it. If the girl really hated living with her folks she could always leave home. there are other options.

Its his house his rules

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Yeah...this changes nothing in my opinion. It was a bit over the top, but he was simply teaching his misbehaving child that she is not as entitled as she thinks she is. Along the "pay her for chores" argument, shouldn't parents then be able to require recompense for all the diapers, formula, clothing, doctor visits, ER trips, etc their kid costs them? Think of making the bed and sweeping the floor as a drop in the bucket, kiddies.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Gonna go ahead and assume that Tommy Jordan is that guy who shot the laptop. If he is, then this makes no fucking sense. This is about abuse of a partner, not a parent. Obviously the relationship is completely different, and different behaviors are acceptable. But for some specifics...

embarrasses the other person with put-downs

He didn't "embarrass her with putdowns", he scolded her. That's what you DO when a kid fucks up. OBVIOUSLY it's different when you do this to your partner, who is supposed to be your equal, not to mention an adult. His daughter is neither of those things. And he only put it on Facebook because she did the exact same thing to him.

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

Well, (a)what is and isn't frightening is a matter of opinion, and (b)he wasn't frightening. (IN MY OPINION. Don't even start.)

tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

That's pretty much a parent's job. I'd be concerned if he wasn't doing any of this. See, this is where your logic really begins to break down.

makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

Again, this makes sense for a couple but not a parent/child. A parent owes his/her kid exactly zero dollars and zero cents, and it sounds like the guy paid for a shit-ton of his daughter's stuff anyway, so...This REALLY doesn't make any sense.

makes all of the decisions

Again, exactly what a parent is supposed to do. Are you doing this on purpose? I'm starting to think you did this on purpose.

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

Yeah, I'm denying he abused her, too. He shot her damn laptop. Why is that not abuse? BECAUSE IT'S A LAPTOP. She'll live.

destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets

Well, he bought it, so he destroyed his own property. Don't tell me it was a gift, that doesn't matter. That laptop was a privilege, not a right. If he decides she no longer deserves a laptop, it is his right (AS. A. PARENT.) to take that privilege away. And if he threatened to kill a pet, I must have missed it.

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

Totally irrelevant. He didn't do any of that. He shot a LAPTOP.

Now, for discusion, do you still think this man is awesome??

Yes. Yes, I do. And I think that YOU didn't put enough thought into this thread.

Oh, and don't tell me she's going to be scarred from a video of her laptop being shot going viral. She's fine:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099958/Dad-shot-daughters-laptop-Facebook-post-wont-let-family-gain-new-fame.html

Scroll aaaaaaaaaaaall the way down until you see a big, blue box full of text. It's a letter to media outlets released by Tommy Jordan. He describes his daughter's reaction to all this in good detail. And please don't accuse him of lying to cover up the abuse. Unless he's an extremely specific and creative liar, there's no reason to think any of it is untrue.

 

[Semudara]

The only thing I agree with the OP on is that the computer was rightfully the daughter's property, so destroying it was going a little too far even for a parent.

But as others have pointed out, your initial post is worthless because the list you're citing simply does NOT apply to parent/child relationships.

 

[KefkaCultist]

I'm just gonna break this down piece by piece.

Read this:

AM I BEING ABUSED?


Does your partner:

First problem. PARTNER as in husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, etc. A person's own child is completely different.

embarrasses the other person with put-downs

I'll admit, he probably should have set the video to the setting where you can only find it if linked to it since he only wanted her & her friends to see it, but he probably didn't think this would blow up like this or just didn't know how to. That being said, even though this video is embarrassing to the girl, it is about the same concept as a public scolding from a father which is not abuse. It is called parenting. He did not use any put downs in the video. He read her post, made rebuttals to her comments, and then destroyed the laptop. End of story.

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

If this guy is a suspected abuser because of his looks, then someone go arrest the guy who owns my local card shop because he's a large guy with dreadlocks, a thick beard, and a bull-style nose ring. Picture that man and cower in fear while I tell you that he's a really nice guy despite his looks. Ever heard, "don't judge a book by it's cover"? Well, that's supposed to apply to people too.

tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

This is called parenting. You see, when two people love each other and have a kid, someone has to be there and tell the kid what to do and what not to do or else bad things would happen to the kid. I sure as hell would stop my kid from going to hang out at a house in a bad part of town with a guy who's known as a pot head. That's what a normal parent should do.

makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

Did you get fed sandwiches with money instead of lettuce while growing up? Because I've had to ask my parents for money a lot while growing up. Hell, I still do since I'm a college student and all. Not once have I felt entitled to a share of my parent's income.

makes all of the decisions

Again, this is parenting.

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

First off, the guy in the video never said anything about abuse being no big deal, denied anything, or blamed something on anyone else. Additionally, you can't really deny anything when there's nothing going on to even deny.

destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets

He paid for the laptop and the software and it's his to do with what he wants.

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

He was alone. In an open field. Hard to intimidate with a gun when you're the only person there. Oh, did you mean intimidate the laptop? I don't think the laptop cared too much seeing as it's an inanimate object.

Now, for discusion, do you still think this man is awesome??

Yes, yes I do.

I'm going to move on now. You should probably just do the same.

 

[SovietSecrets]

You consider her being abused? That is laughable. Oh snap he shot her labtop because he considered it a good punishment for his daughter.

 

[LobsterFeng]

Never before has the internet argued so much over something so little.

I feel sorry for the dude, he never expected his video to explode in the way it did.

 

[Fatboy_41]

Yea, I don't think I'll be taking parenting advice from a 22 year old with no kids anytime soon. My kids won't get paid for their chores. They also won't be paying me to board or food.

OT - As most people have pointed out, the confusion you've made here is the difference between "partner" and "parent". The dynamic of a relationship between partners is very different to one between a parent and child.