For School: What Games for a Games as Lit. Class?

[Thaius]

snip

Well first off your categories suck, why only first person storytelling? and surely immersion is an aspect of every game from bioshock to tetris, plus first person storytelling will frequently involve either adventure or RPG anyway.

It's a "Video Games as Literature" course. All these studies are about storytelling, that's just the only one where I put the actual word in the title. But perspective is important in video games, and the first-person perspective storytelling principles deserve specific focus, especially since pretty much every other game in the course (with the exception of some of the adventure/visual novel titles) will end up being in third-person. As for immersion, it's like I said to Halo Fanboy above; immersion is, essentially, the effect a game has when all its parts are so expertly designed and pieced together that the experience amounts to much more than the simple sum of its parts and achieves true tension and immersion.

And yes, many genres overlap, but remember this is about storytelling. There are specific storytelling principles and techniques that apply to certain genres and perspectives and not others. And like I said, there will be overlap between some of these studies. The fact that art is capable of crossing genres does not devalue the study of said genres.

OK I get where you're coming from but computer games aren't really so much about literature, and I understand the sense in which you're using the word (I think). What I mean is that computer games are art independent of their capacity to tell stories and the defining quality of games over other mediums is that they're interactive. If you like, I think we need a new language and a new idiom for discussing the art of computer games, "literature" is too one dimensional for what games actually are and to reduce a game to just its story is to miss the point in a big way.

Again on the subject of immersion, I'm really not sure that immersion is just an aspect of game design, its a act of participation on the part of the gamer. When reading a novel you "immerse" in the flow of the story and automatically create images and impressions in your mind giving the whole experience something of the feel of a third party dream. Well that is a function of imagination and to a lesser extent the same thing happens with movies, however its different with games, you drive the story, rather than letting your higher brain take a back seat you actually have to make choices and engage with the environment of the "story"..
Its a qualitatively different thing and it takes a much more conscious decision to "play along" and immerse yourself, it actually takes willing and effort for the gamer to achieve immersion, but having said that it is their effort that makes it happen so one gamer who has an immersive play style might achieve immersion in most games he plays (from dwarf fortress to Dreamfall), where as another might fail to become immersed in any of the games they play.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that immersion in the context of computer games is subjective.

That is true, but the very quality of a given game, or any artwork for that matter, is subjective as well. It's something any sort of artistic study has to deal with, unfortunately. Since immersion is largely on the part of the player, their engagement in and opinion of a given work will be different from the other guy, but that is true of anything. While a sci-fi fan may be completely enraptured by District 9, someone who has trouble developing emotional connections to such entirely fictional situations and characters will not. But that does not mean there is no worth in studying District 9 as an enthralling piece of storytelling art. There are certain things, certain techniques and interesting design choices that make any artwork immersive, and while true immersion also requires action on the part of the player, the techniques and design that makes it possible must also be studied.

It is also true that video games are not only restricted to storytelling, but it is a large function of them, and I believe sometime soon we may be forced to create a different term for games that focus on creating an interactive narrative. The fact is, video games are a legitimate and capable medium for telling stories. It can do much more as well, but this course in particular is to study this aspect of them. I am not denying the legitimacy of competitive or "just for fun" gaming in this course, it is simply not the focus, similar to how a Bible as Literature course may study the Bible as a story whereas a Christian Theology course may study it as a holy book; one thing that has multiple functions, but each course focuses on one specific one. I'm not claiming games are restricted to being literature, I'm saying they have value as literature and this course looks specifically at that aspect.

Then for the sake of Immersion,have the person write a conglomerate of how they were immersed with each game.To single any one example out would be foolish so show that all games have a factor of immersion so as to prevent criticism on the part of neigh-sayers.If each individual has a different sense of immersion then no one game could be pointed to so tell them to describe the immersion experienced and as results shall differ,a hole is plugged in the boat.

That's why the plan for all of these studies is to allow the students to choose from a list of applicable games. Different students will have different tastes and different gaming systems, so they have to have options in the first place. In terms of immersion, though, I still want to provide a list. Literature classes, for instance, do not let the student read whatever they want, else we'd have someone trying to do an in-depth analysis of philosophical themes in Twilight. That simply can't happen. All joking aside though, a given study should focus on examples of the medium that do well with the theme of the study. Though there are different tastes, there are still games that make more use of principles of immersion and atmosphere in game design than others. The games studied must be exceptional from a design perspective.

Also as an addendum to what I said before, I would like to point out that the study of "literature" is not the study of just the story, but also the study of how it is told. That means considering every aspect of a given work. In film it includes the cinematography, music, and everything else, and in games it includes the interactivity. Everything about how the story is told and presented is to be studied. Just a random clarification I wanted to make.

 

[mitchell271]

FPS: Bioshock, CoD 4, Portal, Half-life,
RPG: Oblivion/Morrowind, Fallout 3, Chrono Trigger, Persona 4, Disgaea 1
Adventure: Sam & Max, Old LucasArts point-and-click
Indie: Braid, Limbo, Amnesia, Minecraft, Super Meat Boy
Immersion: Bioshock, Silent Hill 2, Amnesia

Hope this helps!

 

[Psycho Cat Industries]

snip

Well first off your categories suck, why only first person storytelling? and surely immersion is an aspect of every game from bioshock to tetris, plus first person storytelling will frequently involve either adventure or RPG anyway.

It's a "Video Games as Literature" course. All these studies are about storytelling, that's just the only one where I put the actual word in the title. But perspective is important in video games, and the first-person perspective storytelling principles deserve specific focus, especially since pretty much every other game in the course (with the exception of some of the adventure/visual novel titles) will end up being in third-person. As for immersion, it's like I said to Halo Fanboy above; immersion is, essentially, the effect a game has when all its parts are so expertly designed and pieced together that the experience amounts to much more than the simple sum of its parts and achieves true tension and immersion.

And yes, many genres overlap, but remember this is about storytelling. There are specific storytelling principles and techniques that apply to certain genres and perspectives and not others. And like I said, there will be overlap between some of these studies. The fact that art is capable of crossing genres does not devalue the study of said genres.

OK I get where you're coming from but computer games aren't really so much about literature, and I understand the sense in which you're using the word (I think). What I mean is that computer games are art independent of their capacity to tell stories and the defining quality of games over other mediums is that they're interactive. If you like, I think we need a new language and a new idiom for discussing the art of computer games, "literature" is too one dimensional for what games actually are and to reduce a game to just its story is to miss the point in a big way.

Again on the subject of immersion, I'm really not sure that immersion is just an aspect of game design, its a act of participation on the part of the gamer. When reading a novel you "immerse" in the flow of the story and automatically create images and impressions in your mind giving the whole experience something of the feel of a third party dream. Well that is a function of imagination and to a lesser extent the same thing happens with movies, however its different with games, you drive the story, rather than letting your higher brain take a back seat you actually have to make choices and engage with the environment of the "story"..
Its a qualitatively different thing and it takes a much more conscious decision to "play along" and immerse yourself, it actually takes willing and effort for the gamer to achieve immersion, but having said that it is their effort that makes it happen so one gamer who has an immersive play style might achieve immersion in most games he plays (from dwarf fortress to Dreamfall), where as another might fail to become immersed in any of the games they play.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that immersion in the context of computer games is subjective.

That is true, but the very quality of a given game, or any artwork for that matter, is subjective as well. It's something any sort of artistic study has to deal with, unfortunately. Since immersion is largely on the part of the player, their engagement in and opinion of a given work will be different from the other guy, but that is true of anything. While a sci-fi fan may be completely enraptured by District 9, someone who has trouble developing emotional connections to such entirely fictional situations and characters will not. But that does not mean there is no worth in studying District 9 as an enthralling piece of storytelling art. There are certain things, certain techniques and interesting design choices that make any artwork immersive, and while true immersion also requires action on the part of the player, the techniques and design that makes it possible must also be studied.

It is also true that video games are not only restricted to storytelling, but it is a large function of them, and I believe sometime soon we may be forced to create a different term for games that focus on creating an interactive narrative. The fact is, video games are a legitimate and capable medium for telling stories. It can do much more as well, but this course in particular is to study this aspect of them. I am not denying the legitimacy of competitive or "just for fun" gaming in this course, it is simply not the focus, similar to how a Bible as Literature course may study the Bible as a story whereas a Christian Theology course may study it as a holy book; one thing that has multiple functions, but each course focuses on one specific one. I'm not claiming games are restricted to being literature, I'm saying they have value as literature and this course looks specifically at that aspect.

Then for the sake of Immersion,have the person write a conglomerate of how they were immersed with each game.To single any one example out would be foolish so show that all games have a factor of immersion so as to prevent criticism on the part of neigh-sayers.If each individual has a different sense of immersion then no one game could be pointed to so tell them to describe the immersion experienced and as results shall differ,a hole is plugged in the boat.

That's why the plan for all of these studies is to allow the students to choose from a list of applicable games. Different students will have different tastes and different gaming systems, so they have to have options in the first place. In terms of immersion, though, I still want to provide a list. Literature classes, for instance, do not let the student read whatever they want, else we'd have someone trying to do an in-depth analysis of philosophical themes in Twilight. That simply can't happen. All joking aside though, a given study should focus on examples of the medium that do well with the theme of the study. Though there are different tastes, there are still games that make more use of principles of immersion and atmosphere in game design than others. The games studied must be exceptional from a design perspective.

Also as an addendum to what I said before, I would like to point out that the study of "literature" is not the study of just the story, but also the study of how it is told. That means considering every aspect of a given work. In film it includes the cinematography, music, and everything else, and in games it includes the interactivity. Everything about how the story is told and presented is to be studied. Just a random clarification I wanted to make.

Well then I don't think you'd want to hear Pokemon Black then.(chuckles)
I never played it but from what I hear,Half-Life was God's was of saying games shouldn't have cut scenes.Try Final Fantasy 9 as a stretch.It was a looked down game in the series because the characters looked odd compared to 8 and previous (even if 6 and previous were blocks) but is my favorite,maybe because I grew up with it,but more so just because of the characters.Steiner was a goof and the head knight of a queen's guard.Zidane,a lowly thief who the main character plays as,Vivi,an insecure little wizard and so on.
The thing that I detest about books is that you are not part of the story and it is the same case with final fantasy but the game factor changes it all.
I would also look up Fallout : New Vegas which I mentioned in an above post.
(Though what I was saying was for them to choose from the other factors listed)

 

[psicat]

First-Person Storytelling
Half Life 2
System Shock 2
The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl
The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
Deus Ex

WRPG Study
Planescape: Torment
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate 2
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
The Witcher
Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age 2
Mass Effect
Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines

JRPG Study
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Persona 3
Persona 4
Crono Trigger
Lost Odyssey
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Adventure/Visual Novel
Gabriel Knight: Sins of The Father
The Longest Journey
Indigo Prophesy
The Last Express
Broken Sword: Shadow of The Templars
Dreamfall

Indie Games
Braid
Flower
Machinarium
Amnesia: The Dark Descent

Immersion
Bioshock
Fallout 3
Fallout New Vegas
THief: Deadly Shadows
Silent Hill 2
God of War
Dark Messiah

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

I'd go with Silent Hill 2 for immersion. That game really draws you in and has a great plot to boot.

Also for immersion I want to say Shadow of the Collosus, but I'm not quite sure if it fits. The beauty and vastness of the game world certainly draws you in, and they manage to tell a good story without much dialog. You can see it in how the protagonist throws himself into harm's way for his beloved, and, despite becoming wounded, ragged, and pale over the course of his journey, trudges ever onward,. (The character model actually becomes more pale and wounded, and the clothes more dirty and torn, as the game goes on. I thought it was a nice touch.)

 

[Irridium]

Hm... quite a lot games I could recommend. But I'll try to stick with a few choices.

Spoiler: First-Person Storytelling - Games from the first-person perspective that are worth studying from a literary perspective.

PC: Half Life 2 - Tells its story mostly through the environment. Withing the first moments of the game you understand the world, who's in charge, how they work, and what the situation is. All done with no text, or NPC giving you exposition. Easily the best game at telling story through the environment and through exploration.

Actually, just go with any Valve game on the PC. All are fantastic in telling their story through the environment/gameplay. Its something very, very few other developers do for some inexplicable reason. And Valve's way is easily the best way.

360: Halo Series - Its the 360's main title. The biggest game on the Xbox. You can play all the games on the 360, so you can study how the storytelling evolves through each game.[/b]

PS3: Haze - Why did I pick a bad game? Because you need to study the bad along with the good. Study where it faltered, how it faltered, what it could have done to improve itself, and how to avoid these pitfalls.

Spoiler: RPG Study - Broken up into JRPG and WRPG sections, to compare the styles of gameplay and storytelling from both cultures, since both are critically important to gaming's narrative identity but very, very different.

JRPG - Not my strong suit. Last JRPG I really played was Grandia 2 on the Dreamcast. So yeah, not exactly qualified for this one.

WRPG - PC/360/PS3: Alpha Protocol - Examine how stories can change and evolve based on player choice. I also suggest Fallout New Vegas and The Witcher for this.

Spoiler: Adventure/Visual Novel - A study of games from point-and-click adventure games to Japanese visual novels, studying the ways in which these specialized genres tell their stories and overcome gaming's need for violence and conflict.

PS3: Heavy Rain - Shows how certain failures don't always have to completely end the game. How even killing off the main characters won't stop the main story. Essentially an evolving story is hat I'm going for here. And I put Heavy Rain in this category because honestly, I don't know where else to put it :/

360: Fable series - How a storybook setting can provide delightfully twisted characters, quests, and stories. As well as a study on how a story can falter, and what to do to avoid this(the Fable series's main quests have really sucked).

PC: Psychonauts - How different everyone's mind is, and how differently they see the world.

Spoiler: Indie Games - A study of what makes small-budget and independently-developed games different, how they are important, and the place that art games have in the medium.

Don't have anything for this. Sorry.

Spoiler: Immersion - A study of immersion and atmosphere, the effect that all elements of an interactive artwork combine to create.

PC/360: Mass Effect 1 - I know I'm in the minority on this one, but Mass Effect 1 is the only game that has ever fully immersed me. The only game where I ceased to be me and became Shepard. It was a combination of the great story, decent graphics, amazing setting, the size of the places you visit, the deep and interesting companions, and the gameplay. I know I'm going to be in the minority with the gameplay, so I'll explain.

In Mass Effect 1, you start out not very good. Your weapons suck, your weak, your inexperienced, and your up against an enemy you've never fought before. And so is Shepard.

You and Shepard start out on the same level. Both of you are new to the situation, and both of you are learning as you go. At the start your so-so or not very good, but as time goes on, you get better. You get stronger, your guns get more accurate, your powers get stronger and you get more of them, you start to learn how the combat works, you learn how to fight well, how to manage your powers, and how to fight this enemy. And so does Shepard.

You and Shepard learn the same things, you learn at the same pace. You are on the same level as Shepard. As he gets better, you get better. Your companions get better, you learn how to fight better. You improve, and by the end your a badass armed not just with the best weapons and armor and powers, but also with the knowledge of those powers and how to use them.

You and Shepard both learn at the same pace, and that is why it immersed me so much.

Contrast this with ME2, where you are just as strong at the end as you are at the beginning. Yeah you get a few more powers, but you don't really improve that much. Your essentially the same from start to finish, and its just boring and uninteresting. There's nothing to really learn, to master. Its just shoot/cast power, kill, repeat. No real exploiting the combat using knowledge gained from earlier battles, no real decision making when it comes to improving yourself... its just not as good as the first. On top of it all, it basically played like any other 3rd person shooter, which made it just feel dull and familiar. I'm not interested in the familiar, I want the new.

And thats why ME1 was far more immersive for me then ME2. Hopefully I made some sense.

 

[Larmo]

First-Person Storytelling: Metroid prime trilogy, especially the first, there is almost no dialog to my recollection but through scanning the environment, and reading logs, your could piece together what happened to the planet or environment.

 

[Thaius]

snip

You had a good list, but I would like to commend you specifically on being the first to mention Halo. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Many people bash Halo saying it has a simplistic, cliche story, but I think there are many, many layers of depth to it that these people seem to miss. I think it's all just a matter of jumping on the "hate the mainstream" bandwagon, but whatever. Point is, you're awesome.

 

[Irridium]

snip

You had a good list, but I would like to commend you specifically on being the first to mention Halo. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Many people bash Halo saying it has a simplistic, cliche story, but I think there are many, many layers of depth to it that these people seem to miss. I think it's all just a matter of jumping on the "hate the mainstream" bandwagon, but whatever. Point is, you're awesome.

Really, I was the first? Huh...

Yeah, I figured since Halo is the first game to use novels to help flesh out its story(any use Alternate Reality games like with Halo 2's "I love Bees" campaign and Halo 3's "Adjutant Reflex" thing. Damn those were great.

2 things done by plenty of games these days.

 

[Thaius]

snip

You had a good list, but I would like to commend you specifically on being the first to mention Halo. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Many people bash Halo saying it has a simplistic, cliche story, but I think there are many, many layers of depth to it that these people seem to miss. I think it's all just a matter of jumping on the "hate the mainstream" bandwagon, but whatever. Point is, you're awesome.

Really, I was the first? Huh...

Yeah, I figured since Halo is the first game to use novels to help flesh out its story(any use Alternate Reality games like with Halo 2's "I love Bees" campaign and Halo 3's "Adjutant Reflex" thing. Damn those were great.

2 things done by plenty of games these days.

Halo was the first to do a lot of things; many people have turned that into a reason to hate it ("It started x gameplay trend that is now overused, so it sucks!") Again, pretty stupid. But yeah, I was already planning on including the Halo games (specifically the first and Reach). Just didn't trumpet it since I knew many people would take issue with it.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

deliver an interesting interactive experience despite the absence of, or at least lack of focus on, violence. Both visual novels and adventure games (not to be confused with action games) have gotten around that in similar ways.

Except that Adventure games and Visual novels have violence as central themes as often as not. Remeber how constantly you get killed in Sierra games. The most famous VNs are Fate/stay, Higurashi, Umineko, Tsukihime and School Days and those all feature heavy violence. If you want a nonviolent genre you could look to tons of options; pong-clones, match 3, rythm, skateboard, most puzzle games, fishing, management sims, city sims and pinball games.

Keep in mind this class is about storytelling; both genres use similar storytelling techniques even if the gameplay itself is different. There is more theory behind it but I would end up writing an essay here, which is not my goal. Point is that both genres are similar in fundamental ways, especially regarding their storytelling, which is the entire point of this course.

Ok how are the story telling styles of King's Quest, Space quest, Myst, Gold Rush, Phantasmagoria, Monkey Island or Discworld similar in story telling style to any visual novels?

Though I fail to see how you can say they are not related directly before saying they can easily be combined.

You can combine a visual novel with anything, like visual novels combined with SRPGs, fighting Games and pachinko games.

It's not that simple. Quality does not guarantee immersion; it is not the same as addictiveness.

I guess I have to explain that unlike a WoW player my definition of good quality isn't "addictevness." Good games are tense and emotional, hence immersive. If you look through that list you'll see games that are highly immersive because they are challenging or highly competetive, they can create tension, excitement, anger, happiness easily. Tekki/ Steel Battalion particularly makes Bioshock look like a sham. The game has precise, highly realistic controls and a very punishing death system, how could you recommend any other game's level of immersion above it?

 

[Thaius]

deliver an interesting interactive experience despite the absence of, or at least lack of focus on, violence. Both visual novels and adventure games (not to be confused with action games) have gotten around that in similar ways.

Except that Adventure games and Visual novels have violence as central themes as often as not. Remeber how constantly you get killed in Sierra games. The most famous VNs are Fate/stay, Higurashi, Umineko, Tsukihime and School Days and those all feature heavy violence. If you want a nonviolent genre you could look to tons of options; pong-clones, match 3, rythm, skateboard, most puzzle games, fishing, management sims, city sims and pinball games.

I'm talking about violent gameplay, not necessarily violent themes or story elements. I would use Heavy Rain as an example as well; a game that definitely has its dose of violence, but the gameplay itself does not revolve around it. I suppose I should have specified that. The point is that most games center around violence in their stories because it is easiest to create gameplay that centers on violence (with the exception of puzzle games like Tetris, but it is difficult to add a good interactive story to a game like that which has no bearing on any sort of real-life situation). Both adventure games and visual novels tell their stories by removing the player's action from direct interaction with the player's movements and instead focusing largely (or sometimes entirely) on story-related choices and actions. Thus, even if the story is violent, the gameplay is not. This is really difficult for most games to do, and it is worth exploring how genres such as these overcome it.

Keep in mind this class is about storytelling; both genres use similar storytelling techniques even if the gameplay itself is different. There is more theory behind it but I would end up writing an essay here, which is not my goal. Point is that both genres are similar in fundamental ways, especially regarding their storytelling, which is the entire point of this course.

Ok how are the story telling styles of King's Quest, Space quest, Myst, Gold Rush, Phantasmagoria, Monkey Island or Discworld similar in story telling style to any visual novels?

See above.

It's not that simple. Quality does not guarantee immersion; it is not the same as addictiveness.

I guess I have to explain that unlike a WoW player my definition of good quality isn't "addictevness." Good games are tense and emotional, hence immersive. If you look through that list you'll see games that are highly immersive because they are challenging or highly competetive, they can create tension, excitement, anger, happiness easily. Tekki/ Steel Battalion particularly makes Bioshock look like a sham. The game has precise, highly realistic controls and a very punishing death system, how could you recommend any other game's level of immersion above it?

I was using "addictiveness" to illustrate that just because a game is well-made and fun, to the point of not wanting to stop, does not mean it is "immersive." But you seem to be saying that a game is only good if it fits those particular criteria, which is interesting. I'm not remembering you being a "games are only good if they tell a good story and do it really well" sort of guy so much as a "games are about play, and if anything detracts from that the game has failed" sort of guy. Though if you're going to assert that the only way to make truly immersive games is an insanely expensive and extremely realistic controller, something's wrong.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

For First-Person:

-Left 4 Dead
Pay attention to the way it tells a story through the environment.

-Russian Campaign, World at War
Yeah, lol CoD. But seriously, it's a good campaign. From the way the man whose supposed to be the hero is shown to actually be a war criminal to how Reznov is consumed by his desire for vengeance until he's finally awakened to what he's become in the final hours of the war. It's really a very good campaign.

-Red Faction vs Red Faction Guerrilla
RF1 was an FPS linear game while RFG was a TPS open sandbox. Consider the ways in which it creates a different way of telling a story, and find which is most effective.

For RPGs:

-Final Fantasy 7
Wild ARMS
Persona 3 or 4

All three were made by a different company, and all three tell stories in different ways.


Edit

Here's a list of 10 good indie games you can play online for free
http://www.casualgirlgamer.com/articles/entry/22/Ten-games-that-make-you-think-about-life/

 

[Chewster]

First of all, it might be wise to show that video games are similar enough to literature to warrant the comparison between the two, even though I would argue that there is no point in even trying to understand them in the exact same way or operating under the assumption that they do operate in the same or even similar ways at all, since they don't. People have tried to read many different types of media as texts, but the forms still have distinct, potentially essential properties to them, so to speak.

Even in our every day lives people conflate different media forms, but that doesn't mean they function in nearly the same ways (off the top of my head, images/photographs and speech get that treatment often). So perhaps the first part of the class ought to be looking at the fundamental differences between the two types of media, and how these differences affect the ways in which a story can be created and presented and how people can then un-package and interpret them. Certainly a very daunting task given the extensive history of English Literature and Literary Criticism, but it is still worth doing.

That having been said, I don't know what category this would fall into since the ones you give seem a bit odd to me, but I think that the ways in which Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time manages incorporate the death mechanics into the narrative is worth a look at since it managed to blend the narrative and game play in an interesting and arguably seamless way. This is similar to the Assassin's Creed games, but I think this game did a better job with the actual mechanics, even if the historical story told in AC might have been more interesting.

I know you said you wish to stick to newer games, but I feel as though that would be detrimental to the class. Ignoring the wealth of great games that have been made throughout the history of gaming more or less ensures that the class will end up favoring modern games, which are, I think, distinct from other generations worthy of exploration too. I'd try to find a workaround, especially considering the fact that older games are going to probably run easier on their student's newer machines, while some of the newer games might not, if the students aren't gamers.

As a side question: is this actually going to become a class? If so, why are you on here asking people for games? Should you not be researching them yourself? What do you mean by "senior project"? Is that similar to an Honour's Thesis?

If this is just a casual exercise designed to get the brain juices flowing, you can ignore that last bit. I don't mean it to be snarky, but I was just wondering.

Additionally, what does the reading list look like?

 

[Vakz]

Indie Games - A study of what makes small-budget and independently-developed games different, how they are important, and the place that "art games" have in the medium.

Go for Braid. One of the few indie-games I feel has actual depth. Machinarium could also be a good idea, but the story becomes slightly complexer without voice acting imo.

 

[viranimus]

Normally I would go into a fairly long post on this, but, I dont think I have the energy right now.

TLDR: The thing, Minecraft, Shadowgate

First and foremost I will offer one im fairly certain wont be brought up.

The thing.

It comes as an interesting contrast to see the differences between how the original film/novelization and the 2002 video game incarnation, thus sort of showing the progression from a written medium into an action centric medium.

And even though its narrative is basically non existent I would have to offer up minecraft. Now the reason why is not the narrative of minecraft, but the mechanic of minecraft. At the point when you start naming things in minecraft you get the glimmer that you are basically crafting a world for non existent people. You build a gigantic castle do you build it for just one person? No you typically build it to be like a real world castle complete with the amenities that a real life residence would need. You imagine each room you craft with a concept in mind of what types of activities would this room hold. You find yourself building multiple pathways to gain access to similar points of interest. Then if you try to do large scale building such as building a city, you are building several buildings with different purposes and ends. Larger still you can start to build up several "population centers" at different geographical locations.

Once your trying to use multiple land masses it is entirely possible that you construct in your own mind a narrative to fit with what your building. I will use my own for example. My first world and my learning project in minecraft spawned me somewhat near the water, but facing a gigantic mountain with a sheer cliff face in one side. I decided to build a castle that would in essence hollow out the mountain and burst out from various points around its circumfrence. In time I built a sandstone lighthouse near the water. More time passed and I used Cartograph G to get a feel for my world, and realized that my landmass was a large island inside of a sea. I started using Nether portals to fast travel to distant places away from my castle. Each portal in turn started to develop into smaller communities built around each portal. My mind clicked in and I determined that my castle was that of a great island nation that was a center for trade. The portal cities that sprouted up became smaller nations. One was in a desert, to which I started developing a middle eastern centric "kingdom" with its own culture and ideals that greatly differed from that of my island castle. I had one portal that came out in an area surrounded by water, to which prompted me to craft a great tower ruin around the portal. In my mind, I visualized that the "people" that built the tower had been wiped out in a great war generations before.

Basically this goes on as much as your imagination will allow it to. So by giving one the tools to use their imagination to build tangible objects it also gives players the tools to craft intangible narrative notions.

Thats all Ill add right now. Though trust me, if I wasnt half asleep I could prolly write many more pages on the subject.

EDIT: Oh, one more to add to the list that prolly wont be mentioned. Shadowgate for the NES/PC. One of the earliest attempts at crafting a narrative into a game that wasnt a role playing game.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Heavy Rain

Not a real adventure game, or at most a very dumbed down one (basically a Time Gal clone.)

I suppose I should have specified that. The point is that most games center around violence in their stories because it is easiest to create gameplay that centers on violence (with the exception of puzzle games like Tetris, but it is difficult to add a good interactive story to a game like that which has no bearing on any sort of real-life situation).

I guess you ignored that list of game genres I thought up that don't have any violence.

Both adventure games and visual novels tell their stories by removing the player's action from direct interaction with the player's movements and instead focusing largely (or sometimes entirely) on story-related choices and actions. Thus, even if the story is violent, the gameplay is not.

That's wrong, adventure games don't concentrate on interacting with the story, the majority in fact do not have any story choices at all, they are merely a series of puzzles. Myst has an anemic story for example. And how do adventure games remove the player from direct interaction, because they are point and click? That's still direct control. And even some, like Shenmue and that Dreamfall sequel give you even more advanced control than that.

I was using "addictiveness" to illustrate that just because a game is well-made and fun, to the point of not wanting to stop, does not mean it is "immersive." But you seem to be saying that a game is only good if it fits those particular criteria, which is interesting. I'm not remembering you being a "games are only good if they tell a good story and do it really well" sort of guy so much as a "games are about play, and if anything detracts from that the game has failed" sort of guy.

You don't get it, games are immersive when they bombard you with a series of intense challanges. Games that take breaks from the challange to focus on story are less immersive, less interesting and less good.

Though if you're going to assert that the only way to make truly immersive games is an insanely expensive and extremely realistic controller, something's wrong.

I might have said that if I still played every game that got popular. Nowadays with Halo done (and if it isn't done it's still done) I'll only be playing FPSs casually and considering that every other genre is currently dying I'd rather spend money to upgrade my equipment. I'll get an expensive flight stick, an expensive steering wheel, an expensive arcade stick and I'll be spending more and more money on the one area of gaming that is slowest to succumb to the decadence, the Japanese arcade scene.

 

[Thaius]

First of all, it might be wise to show that video games are similar enough to literature to warrant the comparison between the two, even though I would argue that there is no point in even trying to understand them in the exact same way or operating under the assumption that they do operate in the same or even similar ways at all, since they don't. People have tried to read many different types of media as texts, but the forms still have distinct, potentially essential properties to them, so to speak.

Even in our every day lives people conflate different media forms, but that doesn't mean they function in nearly the same ways (off the top of my head, images/photographs and speech get that treatment often). So perhaps the first part of the class ought to be looking at the fundamental differences between the two types of media, and how these differences affect the ways in which a story can be created and presented and how people can then un-package and interpret them. Certainly a very daunting task given the extensive history of English Literature and Literary Criticism, but it is still worth doing.

First of all, your name is based on Star Wars, which makes you awesome. Just sayin'.

Anyway, I've had to explain this a few times in this thread. In the American academic community, "literature" has started expanding its meaning as our culture expands its storytelling art mediums. The class is called "Video Games as Literature" because courses regarding film are often called "Film as Literature." Point being, in this case and the case of many other things, "literature" simply means it is a storytelling art, and to study a given medium "as literature" is to study it from an artistic and narrative standpoint.

That having been said, I don't know what category this would fall into since the ones you give seem a bit odd to me, but I think that the ways in which Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time manages incorporate the death mechanics into the narrative is worth a look at since it managed to blend the narrative and game play in an interesting and arguably seamless way. This is similar to the Assassin's Creed games, but I think this game did a better job with the actual mechanics, even if the historical story told in AC might have been more interesting.

I'm actually considering making Sands of Time a required game to start off the class. This is mainly because it tells a great story while developing one of the better romances in gaming almost entirely during and through gameplay. The story is also very easily compared to traditional stories with a three-act structure, so it should make for a good introduction to interactive narrative.

I know you said you wish to stick to newer games, but I feel as though that would be detrimental to the class. Ignoring the wealth of great games that have been made throughout the history of gaming more or less ensures that the class will end up favoring modern games, which are, I think, distinct from other generations worthy of exploration too. I'd try to find a workaround, especially considering the fact that older games are going to probably run easier on their student's newer machines, while some of the newer games might not, if the students aren't gamers.

Actually, that is not what I said. Rather, I do not want to be limited to only older games. I completely intend on encouraging the students to not limit themselves to newer games, as I see immense value in looking at the history of the medium. Heck, some of my favorite games are from the Super Nintendo era. I just didn't want to limit the course to only older PC games.

As a side question: is this actually going to become a class? If so, why are you on here asking people for games? Should you not be researching them yourself? What do you mean by "senior project"? Is that similar to an Honour's Thesis?

As a senior at my university, I am required to take a class called Senior Seminar, which is specialized for each major and focuses on preparing us for life after college. This is just a BA, so I don't need anything too intense, just a final project. I'm majoring in English with a writing emphasis (closest I could get to studying storytelling so I could apply that knowledge to video games), and for our final project we were encouraged to pitch the professor a project that 1) utilizes what we have learned from our education, and 2) relates to our specific interests and goals. Wanting to go into the writing/design, journalism/critique, or education of video games, I pitched this to my professor and he is actually very excited to see it.

As for why I'm here, it is a project, not an actual course. While I may implement it at some point, for now I simply need to design it. I am already trying to play as many games as I can that will help me further understand and develop my ideas regarding video games as a narrative art medium (it's kind of my study and what I hope to put my life toward). If I ever get to actually teach this class, I will make a specific effort to play as many of these games as I can so I can add them to the curriculum as I see fit. As for now, I just need to be able to list them, but I want to play them anyway, and trust me, if I ever am lucky enough to teach this class, I will do my research. It would be too amazing of an opportunity for me to do a half-assed job.

Additionally, what does the reading list look like?

Way I see it, though there have been some books written on the topic, the real experts on this topic are designers and journalists who have been talking about games for some time. People like the crew of Extra Credits, the Game Overthinker, even Yahtzee; our generation is the one developing these artistic theories, the generation that spreads its ideas by way of the internet rather than publishing books. Things like this will be the "required reading." For that matter, in most literature classes the only textbook you have is the material itself; an anthology of short stories from the culture of study, perhaps a novel that will be read partway through the semester. The cost of buying and/or renting the games is in place of the cost of a textbook, and additional reading/viewing material will be supplied by me as the instructor.

Thanks for taking interest and bringing up questions and such; thoughts like yours are just what I need to develop this further.

 

[Chewster]

First of all, your name is based on Star Wars, which makes you awesome. Just sayin'.

Anyway, I've had to explain this a few times in this thread. In the American academic community, "literature" has started expanding its meaning as our culture expands its storytelling art mediums. The class is called "Video Games as Literature" because courses regarding film are often called "Film as Literature." Point being, in this case and the case of many other things, "literature" simply means it is a storytelling art, and to study a given medium "as literature" is to study it from an artistic and narrative standpoint.

Ha! I don't even really like Star Wars that much. It was just a nickname I acquired, that stuck with me most of my adult life. Thanks for the compliment though.

I did catch that part of another reply, and I guess I should have said that. I'm aware that many media are read as "texts" now, but I guess I am questioning if that is wise or not, since most don't operate in the same way. I'm not saying that reading certain media forms through the lens of others cannot be done (often it makes for interesting thought exercises) but just question the validity of it.

Anyway, I am a Comm MA student, so I guess my concerns are geared towards that discipline, rather than English Lit (though I did double major in English and Comm as an undergrad, whut up). Food for thought anyway, and I respect that your focus is more in line with the narrative aspects.

I'm actually considering making Sands of Time a required game to start off the class. This is mainly because it tells a great story while developing one of the better romances in gaming almost entirely during and through gameplay. The story is also very easily compared to traditional stories with a three-act structure, so it should make for a good introduction to interactive narrative.

Indeed. It seems like a strong way to start.

The game also manages to avoid stereotyping women, something a lot of modern games seem unable of avoiding, but that is getting better too.

Actually, that is not what I said. Rather, I do not want to be limited to only older games. I completely intend on encouraging the students to not limit themselves to newer games, as I see immense value in looking at the history of the medium. Heck, some of my favorite games are from the Super Nintendo era. I just didn't want to limit the course to only older PC games.

That is my bad then.

As a senior at my university, I am required to take a class called Senior Seminar, which is specialized for each major and focuses on preparing us for life after college. This is just a BA, so I don't need anything too intense, just a final project. I'm majoring in English with a writing emphasis (closest I could get to studying storytelling so I could apply that knowledge to video games), and for our final project we were encouraged to pitch the professor a project that 1) utilizes what we have learned from our education, and 2) relates to our specific interests and goals. Wanting to go into the writing/design, journalism/critique, or education of video games, I pitched this to my professor and he is actually very excited to see it.

As for why I'm here, it is a project, not an actual course. While I may implement it at some point, for now I simply need to design it. I am already trying to play as many games as I can that will help me further understand and develop my ideas regarding video games as a narrative art medium (it's kind of my study and what I hope to put my life toward). If I ever get to actually teach this class, I will make a specific effort to play as many of these games as I can so I can add them to the curriculum as I see fit. As for now, I just need to be able to list them, but I want to play them anyway, and trust me, if I ever am lucky enough to teach this class, I will do my research. It would be too amazing of an opportunity for me to do a half-assed job.

We have similar projects here, but most of them are optional. Even MA programs are starting to offer a course only option, as less and less people are attracted to writing a Thesis or a Masters Research Paper when you can learn about a broader range of subject by taking classes. Each option has its own advantages.

But yeah, it sounds fascinating. I too am interested in this sort of stuff and have studied video games a bit (mostly from the political economy/game production/virtual labour side of things) and Game Studies is a really interesting subset of Comm. It has established itself as a legitimate academic focus, but isn't quite centralized yet, so there is a lot going on and people are looking at video games from so many different angles, which is fantastic. At one point, I was interested in looking at video games from a more English Lit POV, but my interests changed a lot over the years, I found.

As it stands, I'm not aware of any classes that discuss just digital games in the Comm field in this country, but I've been out of the Game Studies loop for a bit now. It's only a matter of time though.

Way I see it, though there have been some books written on the topic, the real experts on this topic are designers and journalists who have been talking about games for some time. People like the crew of Extra Credits, the Game Overthinker, even Yahtzee; our generation is the one developing these artistic theories, the generation that spreads its ideas by way of the internet rather than publishing books. Things like this will be the "required reading." For that matter, in most literature classes the only textbook you have is the material itself; an anthology of short stories from the culture of study, perhaps a novel that will be read partway through the semester. The cost of buying and/or renting the games is in place of the cost of a textbook, and additional reading/viewing material will be supplied by me as the instructor.

Thanks for taking interest and bringing up questions and such; thoughts like yours are just what I need to develop this further.

Most of my English classes had a decent mix of both. A bit of theory, some short stories and a few novels scattered throughout. It seems to work.

Books and articles about games are accumulating, but it will take some time for a large body of research to establish itself. For a long time, the concerns were about youth crime and arcades and the usual media effects bullshit, but that has shifted significantly as games have gotten more advanced and as people have realized that they aren't going away. Academia sometimes needs time to catch up. Unfortunately, I don't have much by way of suggestion since most of my focus has been on game production and immaterial labour (which has a solid base) and less on game content. Still, you might have an opportunity to create a niche for yourself, since the field is so young.

Interestingly, my current university has just begun accumulating new video games that people can borrow (even though our library is rather abysmal in many other respects). I might have to take advantage of that this summer. Too bad the same isn't offered there, but I also think that is only a matter of time too.

Game Studies seems to be relatively big here in Canada, as far as I can tell, but like I said, things are still getting established. The "Canadian Game Studies Association" was only founded in something like 2006 and was an offshoot of the Education program at York, in Toronto and is the first of its kind in this country, as far as I can tell.

But yeah man, best of luck. If you have any questions, drop me a PM or something.