Forbes thinks Retaking Mass Effect 3 is a good thing.

[Agayek]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality.

[sub]Sorry, I couldn't stop myself[/sub]

This is all irrelevant. If you don't like bioware's story, too bad. It's theirs, they wrote in such a way to leave it open for DLC while trying to wrap things up in a satisfying way. The truth is, this reaction would've happened no matter how good the ending was because it wasn't "their" ending. It wasn't how they saw it in their head. You that support this, need to get over the idea that somehow mass effect belongs to you. It does not. You are not the writers, you didn't put in the time to program the code. The only thing you did do, was buy and play. You didn't put any real work in, therefore, you are NOT entitled to the ability to change it.

No one with any sense is pushing for any particular ending. People are pushing for an ending that meets basic literary standards, no matter what form it ultimately takes. You can see a decent breakdown of the biggest literary problems with the ending here [http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/].

The short version is that, as released, the end of ME3 fails fundamentally on every single level. It's abhorrent that they actually released it in a clearly unfinished state, made all the worse by people constantly defending it.

 

[370999]

This is all irrelevant. If you don't like bioware's story, too bad. It's theirs, they wrote in such a way to leave it open for DLC while trying to wrap things up in a satisfying way. The truth is, this reaction would've happened no matter how good the ending was because it wasn't "their" ending. It wasn't how they saw it in their head. You that support this, need to get over the idea that somehow mass effect belongs to you. It does not. You are not the writers, you didn't put in the time to program the code. The only thing you did do, was buy and play. You didn't put any real work in, therefore, you are NOT entitled to the ability to change it.

Irrelevance is a funny thing with products, as losing people who are invested in them does tend to cripple you DLC and at large, your expansions to the franchise.

The reaction would of happened either way? I sincerely doubt it. there would fo always of been people disappointed, that much is self evident but in this volume and with this strenght of feeling? No, I simply can't accept that hypothesis.

I don't have the ability to change it. Only Bioware does. The Retake ME movement was about saying to them we would like them not us to change it. People fuck up, it happens. Bioware is being given the opportunity to try and fix this problem.

 

[viranimus]

Second, you call Mass Effect a "mediocre" SciFi and Star Wars a good one... I don't know how you judge quality but here is a list of comparisons. More thoroughly developed universe; point Mass Effect. More real characters; Mass Effect. More moral reflection; Mass Effect. Cooler alien races; Mass Effect. Cool laser swords; Star Wars.
Third, there was promise after promise from the Devs regarding the ending ? all of which fell flat.

The first point is moot.

The third point is inaccurate in that I have yet to see a direct promise cited, and plenty of interpretation of a promise cited. Until it is a part of an official document (IE not random posts on biowares forums, or in interviews, or any other format where the validity of it is based purely on the individual readers interpretation, Such as "Casey said in an interview there will be 17 endings" when Casey never actually claimed there WOULD BE 17 endings, then The notion that any promise being made falls flat. Seriously, Unless it is a part of an official document and says it in no uncertain terms such as "There will be 17 endings in mass effect 3 on ship date" then its not really a valid claim.

Now, as for point two. I DIDNT call Star Wars a good franchise. I said Star Wars is better than Mass effect. That is a subjective opinion. Just like the opinion that I dont like star wars either and No different than the opinion that Mass effect has cooler alien races. Honestly MEs races are bland, tedious and downright uninteresting carbon copies in my estimation. Its all subjective, and in my estimation Mass effect is a horrible joke. Mass effect might be able to go toe to toe with star wars though I still think star wars has the edge, but it cant hold a candle to many other much better sci fi narratives. Hell Id say Farscape was better than Mass Effect as a whole and that doesnt even look at other big ones such as Star Trek, Star Gate, Battlestar Galactica (all series tied together) or even babylon 5.

Then on the other points such as Moral Reflection.. Star wars is all about that. Developed? Are you sure about that or are you omitting not only KoTOR but the extended universe? Real chars.. Uhm, ok, yeah, MEs got more real chars.. and as it relates to something that is sci fi that is a determent. Seriously, has the last 20 years of media not been drenched enough in realism of both the gritty and normal kinds? Seriously I thought sci fi was one of the last bastions of escapism. Why must it be just as real and just as lame as everything else in this world? Laser swords... not even a pro for starwars because they are goofy.

Remember you have to separate opinion from fact with statements like that.

 

[chiggerwood]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality.

OT: Finally some intelligence! I think one of the main problems with the gaming community, and the reason why we screwed the pooch on this one is due to the fact that as a whole the gaming community has a lot of growing up to do. We're young, as are the gaming journalist, and really I think one of the problems with the game journalist on this one is that they're struggling for relevance in a world where most people will take movies, music, and books seriously, but gaming is still considered to more of a hobby than anything, so when they saw a way to hopefully be taken more serious they jumped on it. Unfortunately no one on either side took the time to actually see things from the others perspective, (again the community as a whole is still immature) and we got the massive clusterfuck of Journalist VS Fans that could've been easily avoided. I hope that this experience betters the gaming community and makes us more mature, but I'm not going to expect much, at least not yet.

 

[Something Amyss]

You didn't put any real work in, therefore, you are NOT entitled to the ability to change it.

Thankfully, that's not the issue at hand. nobody's trying to change it themselves, they're trying to get Bioware to change it.

 

[deadish]

If there was an actual advertised promise made there might be a case for it, but all anyone is able to cite is what they have interpreted to be incontrovertable promises amounting to a response that boils down to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfwOqlnCKQs&t=2m29s


People invested too much time and concern over a mediocre sci fi story, spent entirely too much time on bioware forums and holding bioware to what they interpret to be a promise when no such promise was actually made. Ive still yet to see an actual advertisement or official press release before the game was released that said the game would have 17 different endings, and those endings would be reflective of your choices in the game and that they would all conclude the storyline in one cohesive vein. Its a paradox.

There is no logical ground to stand on. If you dont like a product, you stop buying products from that company in direct protest. Much like the notion of an (mostly)"always on" and Origin required Sim City 5 stops me from buying it. I didnt trust Sim City after as poor as I felt Sim City 4 was, so I used that skepticism and let it guide my purchase. So I wont be buying it. So ME zealots need to take this as a learning experience (why exactly didnt they prepare for this after the release of DA2 is beyond me) and make your wallet act as your voice. Like it or not this trying to force bioware to cave to the will of the irrational populous is not only illogical but counterproductive and damaging for the industry, as well as the customers.

All this has been said before by me or someone else, so instead of responding to quotes should they come, Im going to better utilize my time by.... demanding George Lucas rewrite and remake the prequel trilogy, all because I dont like it. At least then it would be fixing the error of what was an actually decent sci fi saga.

There are so many faults with this that I'll just address the three biggest ones.

First, You are talking past the actual points of Retake Mass Effect movement, which is all those against the movement have been able to do.
Second, you call Mass Effect a "mediocre" SciFi and Star Wars a good one... I don't know how you judge quality but here is a list of comparisons. More thoroughly developed universe; point Mass Effect. More real characters; Mass Effect. More moral reflection; Mass Effect. Cooler alien races; Mass Effect. Cool laser swords; Star Wars.
Third, there was promise after promise from the Devs regarding the ending ? all of which fell flat.

Show me the evidence that clearly states what the developers promised you. If you can't, then you don't really have much of a case of any kind - not even a "false advertising" one.

 

[Thoric485]

Forbes doesn't run on EA ad money, so it's no surprise it has space for real journalism.

 

[Faerillis]

If there was an actual advertised promise made there might be a case for it, but all anyone is able to cite is what they have interpreted to be incontrovertable promises amounting to a response that boils down to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfwOqlnCKQs&t=2m29s


People invested too much time and concern over a mediocre sci fi story, spent entirely too much time on bioware forums and holding bioware to what they interpret to be a promise when no such promise was actually made. Ive still yet to see an actual advertisement or official press release before the game was released that said the game would have 17 different endings, and those endings would be reflective of your choices in the game and that they would all conclude the storyline in one cohesive vein. Its a paradox.

There is no logical ground to stand on. If you dont like a product, you stop buying products from that company in direct protest. Much like the notion of an (mostly)"always on" and Origin required Sim City 5 stops me from buying it. I didnt trust Sim City after as poor as I felt Sim City 4 was, so I used that skepticism and let it guide my purchase. So I wont be buying it. So ME zealots need to take this as a learning experience (why exactly didnt they prepare for this after the release of DA2 is beyond me) and make your wallet act as your voice. Like it or not this trying to force bioware to cave to the will of the irrational populous is not only illogical but counterproductive and damaging for the industry, as well as the customers.

All this has been said before by me or someone else, so instead of responding to quotes should they come, Im going to better utilize my time by.... demanding George Lucas rewrite and remake the prequel trilogy, all because I dont like it. At least then it would be fixing the error of what was an actually decent sci fi saga.

There are so many faults with this that I'll just address the three biggest ones.

First, You are talking past the actual points of Retake Mass Effect movement, which is all those against the movement have been able to do.
Second, you call Mass Effect a "mediocre" SciFi and Star Wars a good one... I don't know how you judge quality but here is a list of comparisons. More thoroughly developed universe; point Mass Effect. More real characters; Mass Effect. More moral reflection; Mass Effect. Cooler alien races; Mass Effect. Cool laser swords; Star Wars.
Third, there was promise after promise from the Devs regarding the ending ? all of which fell flat.

Show me the evidence that clearly states what the developers promised you. If you can't, then you don't really have much of a case of any kind - not even a "false advertising" one.

Except the vast collection of quotes from the Devs like Casey Hudson who explicitly stated that the endings would not be a clear A, B, C, choice and you wouldn't be able to tell how many endings there were. These quotes weren't hinting at that, but explicitly state that when clearly it was an A B C ending.

 

[deadish]

If there was an actual advertised promise made there might be a case for it, but all anyone is able to cite is what they have interpreted to be incontrovertable promises amounting to a response that boils down to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfwOqlnCKQs&t=2m29s


People invested too much time and concern over a mediocre sci fi story, spent entirely too much time on bioware forums and holding bioware to what they interpret to be a promise when no such promise was actually made. Ive still yet to see an actual advertisement or official press release before the game was released that said the game would have 17 different endings, and those endings would be reflective of your choices in the game and that they would all conclude the storyline in one cohesive vein. Its a paradox.

There is no logical ground to stand on. If you dont like a product, you stop buying products from that company in direct protest. Much like the notion of an (mostly)"always on" and Origin required Sim City 5 stops me from buying it. I didnt trust Sim City after as poor as I felt Sim City 4 was, so I used that skepticism and let it guide my purchase. So I wont be buying it. So ME zealots need to take this as a learning experience (why exactly didnt they prepare for this after the release of DA2 is beyond me) and make your wallet act as your voice. Like it or not this trying to force bioware to cave to the will of the irrational populous is not only illogical but counterproductive and damaging for the industry, as well as the customers.

All this has been said before by me or someone else, so instead of responding to quotes should they come, Im going to better utilize my time by.... demanding George Lucas rewrite and remake the prequel trilogy, all because I dont like it. At least then it would be fixing the error of what was an actually decent sci fi saga.

There are so many faults with this that I'll just address the three biggest ones.

First, You are talking past the actual points of Retake Mass Effect movement, which is all those against the movement have been able to do.
Second, you call Mass Effect a "mediocre" SciFi and Star Wars a good one... I don't know how you judge quality but here is a list of comparisons. More thoroughly developed universe; point Mass Effect. More real characters; Mass Effect. More moral reflection; Mass Effect. Cooler alien races; Mass Effect. Cool laser swords; Star Wars.
Third, there was promise after promise from the Devs regarding the ending ? all of which fell flat.

Show me the evidence that clearly states what the developers promised you. If you can't, then you don't really have much of a case of any kind - not even a "false advertising" one.

Except the vast collection of quotes from the Devs like Casey Hudson who explicitly stated that the endings would not be a clear A, B, C, choice and you wouldn't be able to tell how many endings there were. These quotes weren't hinting at that, but explicitly state that when clearly it was an A B C ending.

Don't just tell me. Show me where he said that.

I'm asking out of curiosity.

 

[Thoric485]

Don't just tell me. Show me where he said that.

I'm asking out of curiosity.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

"It's more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."

And the interview is from January no less.

 

[Faerillis]

If there was an actual advertised promise made there might be a case for it, but all anyone is able to cite is what they have interpreted to be incontrovertable promises amounting to a response that boils down to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfwOqlnCKQs&t=2m29s


People invested too much time and concern over a mediocre sci fi story, spent entirely too much time on bioware forums and holding bioware to what they interpret to be a promise when no such promise was actually made. Ive still yet to see an actual advertisement or official press release before the game was released that said the game would have 17 different endings, and those endings would be reflective of your choices in the game and that they would all conclude the storyline in one cohesive vein. Its a paradox.

There is no logical ground to stand on. If you dont like a product, you stop buying products from that company in direct protest. Much like the notion of an (mostly)"always on" and Origin required Sim City 5 stops me from buying it. I didnt trust Sim City after as poor as I felt Sim City 4 was, so I used that skepticism and let it guide my purchase. So I wont be buying it. So ME zealots need to take this as a learning experience (why exactly didnt they prepare for this after the release of DA2 is beyond me) and make your wallet act as your voice. Like it or not this trying to force bioware to cave to the will of the irrational populous is not only illogical but counterproductive and damaging for the industry, as well as the customers.

All this has been said before by me or someone else, so instead of responding to quotes should they come, Im going to better utilize my time by.... demanding George Lucas rewrite and remake the prequel trilogy, all because I dont like it. At least then it would be fixing the error of what was an actually decent sci fi saga.

There are so many faults with this that I'll just address the three biggest ones.

First, You are talking past the actual points of Retake Mass Effect movement, which is all those against the movement have been able to do.
Second, you call Mass Effect a "mediocre" SciFi and Star Wars a good one... I don't know how you judge quality but here is a list of comparisons. More thoroughly developed universe; point Mass Effect. More real characters; Mass Effect. More moral reflection; Mass Effect. Cooler alien races; Mass Effect. Cool laser swords; Star Wars.
Third, there was promise after promise from the Devs regarding the ending ? all of which fell flat.

Show me the evidence that clearly states what the developers promised you. If you can't, then you don't really have much of a case of any kind - not even a "false advertising" one.

Except the vast collection of quotes from the Devs like Casey Hudson who explicitly stated that the endings would not be a clear A, B, C, choice and you wouldn't be able to tell how many endings there were. These quotes weren't hinting at that, but explicitly state that when clearly it was an A B C ending.

Don't just tell me. Show me where he said that.

I'm asking out of curiosity.

Well from Casey Hudson specifically:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Yeah, and I?d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don?t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

It?s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2?s...

This was in GameInformer, a magazine run by GameStop, clearly advertising for the game.

 

[Joccaren]

First, that a developer has to live up to fan expectations, or else its reputation will be tarnished.

Whelp, there goes every developers reputation. Sorry every modern developer. Bethesda, you have to stop making Fallout games like Fallout 3. I know you really want to, but the fans say you should not, so I guess your reputation is irrecoverably tarnished.

PS: The "Retake" thing is still asinine.

Ok... I'm sorry but what?
What is the point you are trying to make there?
Sure, if the majority of fans didn't want more Fallout games to be made, and didn't want them, then Bethesda probably wouldn't make them. And if it did make them, they wouldn't be purchased by those fans.
In the case of ME3, Bioware's reputation HAS been irrevocably tarnished to thousands of their core fanbase. The endings were so, as you put it, asinine that tens of thousands of people are protesting it, and many of those have vowed to never buy a Bioware game again.
Yes, the reputation is tarnished. That's how things work.

 

[Darknacht]

Forbes doesn't run on EA ad money, so it's no surprise it has space for real journalism.

I don't know if I would call what Dave Thier does real journalism any more then most gaming sites. I'm not saying that its not less bias towards game publishers just that he is a bit of a fan boy and just because Forbes pays him a nickel to post things like '5 Lessons in Freelancing From Han Solo' don't make him credible.

 

[deadish]

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

"It's more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."

And the interview is from January no less.

First part of the quote he was talking about what they are doing, the rest of it are vague descriptions of how the ending will be like.

Best of luck convincing a judge that this is "false advertising".

This was in GameInformer, a magazine run by GameStop, clearly advertising for the game.

Not quite sure giving interviews are considered advertising ... IANAL though.

Anyway, good luck with your FCC lawsuit I suppose. If you win. Congratulations! Every developer will have a lawyer right next to him/her during interviews from now on. Just to make sure they cover their asses and don't candidly run their mouth off and say something "dangerous".

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

It has been disappointing to be called a slew of names by sources I go to for gaming news just because I happen to feel a certain way.

It is refreshing to see some non-gaming press give a topic from our sphere decent coverage, but it is also a bit sad to have that contrast against the name calling we're getting here and elsewhere. Just goes to show I guess that the backlash against this one issue from fans has some broader implications than just getting a different ending put on a game. Maybe that's what the people in our circles are afraid of and why they've been trying to quash this from the start? I have no idea how this will play out, but we are certainly in some interesting times.

Anything but stagnation has to have some positive side, right?

 

[Agayek]

But it's still an interview, not an advertisement, and thus claims of "false advertising" are not applicable.

Interviews are advertisements. They are released into the public domain specifically to promote the game.

Note:

advertisement [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/advertisement]
noun
1.a paid announcement, as of goods for sale, in newspapers or magazines, on radio or television, etc.
2.a public notice, especially in print.
3.the action of making generally known; a calling to the attention of the public: The news of this event will receive wide advertisement.

Developer interviews are public notices, in print, designed to call the attention of the public to the game. The only difference is that (usually) devs don't have to pay to get interviews published.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not sure any of this legally qualifies as false advertisement. I don't know the legal mumbojumbo nearly well enough. It certainly violates the spirit of the law though, if not necessarily the letter.

 

[Trishbot]

Well, Forbes is making a lot of good business sense, as a good business magazine should.

If Bioware wants my money, they have to prove to me now they won't muck up an important franchise at the eleventh hour and destroy five years of investment and commitment to a franchise in one fell swoop.