Forget the zombie apocalypse

[Lord Fujor]

thats right fightthepower. a Gun is a tool and not your passport to be "a free man" as antithom seems to think it makes him.

so in free countries if we dont trust our politicians we vote them out of office or force them out through demanding a referendum.

Antithom though clutches his semi automatic whilst rocking back and forth in the corner of a darkened room muttering to himself about how he can't trust any other human being whilst wearing a tin foil hat.

face it, the second amendant is outdated, it was drawn up because america feared retaliation from Britian so it did it to keep a large army. the second amendant isn't relevent today and now it should be difficult to obtain a fire arm, not impossible but difficult. you should prove you have a need for it like Huande or fluffy landmine have and not just "to keep the king of England outta your face"

 

[rossatdi]

Calm down. You sound like the last person I'd want to have a gun. Also, how many cases of home owners fighting off hordes of gun armed raiders have you heard about in the last month. This isn't the wild west and it's not the apocalypse.

Well then you'd be glad to know that I own 13 firearms, and I've got another one soon to come. I've never had to use any of them in a self defense scenario, and honestly I hope I'll never have to. There's more to the right to bear arms than hunting, sport shooting and self defense, I feel people have forgotten that, you've all been desensitized by modern times. Just don't forget that people will always be people, and that's something not to take lightly.

oh and check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

I'm also glad I live in the UK. Where the NRA doesn't make up a political lobby.

Desensitized to what? Gun ownership was never particularly big thing in the UK. I get hunting with a rifle but what is the point of owning a handgun or an assault rifle. Those things are designed to kill people. Only.

Also, you need to watch your tone or the banhammer of common decency might get swung your way. This forum is about the free, courteous, exchange of ideas. We know you're from florida but that doesn't mean you have to act like a stereotype.

I'll check the video out when I get home, I'm sure it's hilariously poor journalism at its best.

Ohhhh everybody's so full of facts Assault rifles (being any rifle capable of automatic fire) have been illegal in America since 1934, I'm not talking about those. "Assault-style" rifles, which were banned by Clinton, are functionally no different from a hunting rifle, they effectively banned a type of gun based on the way it looks alone. When Clinton imposed the ban the media purposely mislabeled these rifles as being the same things you see troops and terrorist carry into combat, and givin your opinion on it, I'd say this EFFECTIVELY DESENSITIZED YOU.

As for handguns they serve a great purpose to defend lives in both the hands of police and civilians.

I don't know, I'd consider a Tech-9 functionally different from a hunting rifle. One's for hunting game the other is for ... what the hell do you need an automatic pistol to defend yourself from?

Are you claiming that handgun ownership is directly responsible for for lives saved than taken amongst civilians? Because I'm calling bullshit on that.

Pissant gun control is not going to do anything. You ban all non-hunting rifles, including ownership, and enforce is strictly then I bet you hard cash homicides will fall.

Got to love that graph. You mean murder rates in DC rose in the 90s? Holy crap, almost as if they did in most metropolitan areas in America.

And as for being desensitized I'd be careful who you're accusing of what. I working in political public affairs and I'm currently applying to join the British Army as an officer. You think I have any illusions about the world? No. And do you know what? I've lived in America for a year, out in Ohio and not in the city. I've traveled the States extensively. Maybe if you're inner cities weren't left to rot you wouldn't have such a big violence problem.

And that's the core. The core is violence. You don't need a gun to kill someone, a kitchen knife works plenty well. But a gun is a fantastic facilitator. The US's problems is crime, guns just make it easier for a violent nation to kill itself.

In fact, fuck it, go for it. Buy your guns. Let me know when it saves your life. The rest of the civilized world - well Western Europe - are managing fine without them. With a better quality of life and a longer life expectancy. Enjoy your firearms, I'm off down the pub with some of my under 21 year old friends. HOLY SHIT our country trusts us to drink under 21? We must be in the early stages of a take over.

 

[ace_of_something]

/quote]

That kid that shot his parents over halo 3 broke open his parents safety deposit box to get that gun. just locking it away doesnt help

Really? their Safety Deposit box? My bank won't let anyone but me open my Safety Deposit Box.

They had a home one just like i do yo can buy them anywhere you want yo get only two keys for it and thats it you cant get more cut now stop being a smart ass because you knew that already

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_deposit_box

Sorry, a small joke is all it was.

 

[darkless]

/quote]

That kid that shot his parents over halo 3 broke open his parents safety deposit box to get that gun. just locking it away doesnt help

Really? their Safety Deposit box? My bank won't let anyone but me open my Safety Deposit Box.

They had a home one just like i do yo can buy them anywhere you want yo get only two keys for it and thats it you cant get more cut now stop being a smart ass because you knew that already

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_deposit_box

Sorry, a small joke is all it was.

"is a type of safe usually located in groups inside a bank vault" i would like to direct you to this word "USUALLY"

 

[Lord Fujor]

@Naterstein where as your right that switzerland has very low gun crime every citizen is army trained once a year and have it ingrained into each and every one of them responsibilty over guns, you can't tell me it's the same in america. for every one responsible parent they'll be a few who dont care. and thats a real problem.

plus they have a completly different mind set than americans and the two people cannot be compared.

 

[Abako]

Also FightThePower more passions of the moment killers end up using some for of knife or blunt object 33 times more than a fire arm so you are plain ingnorant and like to present what you think as fact. DO YOUR FUCKING RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ARGUE PEOPLE. Sorry for the ULTRACAPS.

Irrelevant. Gun control would still prevent some murders, which is a good thing, right?

You are also in desperate need of growing up. Don't think you can shout and swear at someone just because you think you made your point.

O my my. You seem to think that just because I used the caps lock I must have been shouting eh? No, as it would not have been worth getting worked up over. I simply realise that due to massive amounts of arguements in this thread, anyone not reading every post would have a very slim chance of actually reading my post and I had meant for that comment to be directed at everyone. In order to get my post noticed, I gave it an advantage that might catch peoples eye.

But I must wonder does it make you feel more mature to assume that other people are, in fact, not. Please do not try to scold me as one would a child as I am most certainly not. And while that post was not meant to be angry in nature, I would be well within reason to be slightly annoyed at the fact that no one seems to do any form of research before they go blathering on about why this or that is bad. I do not regard anyone's opinion as holding any value in a debate, even though that is what the majority of people try to present. So one might understand if I grow tired of it. All of this is of course hypothetical.

But to answer your question I must challenge your statement that gun control would prevent some murders. For starters I will go ahead and state that it has been established many times over that criminals do not obey gun laws of any fashion. There are signed statements both written and oral by convicted murders and criminals stating that never at any point in their life in which they had the choice, did they regard and obey a gun law. They also stated that the thing that they feared most, and in fact had detered them on more than one occation, was an armed civilian that they saw as a potential victim. They in fact were asked if the police were feared more than armed civilians and they answered that a cop was easy to deal with because they are both recognizable and they are more likely to be predictable.

Now if you in fact took away the guns from every person that has either detered or killed a criminal who was trying to rape, rob, kill, or in any way harm the victim, as well as take away the guns of anyone who has killed someone in a crime of passion with a gun, you will see that the number of people who defended themselves is exponentially greater than the number of people who died in crimes of passions.

So you would in fact be trading the lives of those who defended themselves for the lives of victims of crimes of passion and would end up with a greater number of people dead in the end.

So no. Taking away guns would not decrease the number of deaths, it would in fact only increase the number, and change who died.

 

[Naterstein]

@Naterstein where as your right that switzerland has very low gun crime every citizen is army trained once a year and have it ingrained into each and every one of them responsibilty over guns, you can't tell me it's the same in america. for every one responsible parent they'll be a few who dont care. and thats a real problem.

plus they have a completly different mind set than americans and the two people cannot be compared.

To your first statement, you are definitely right. There are responsible parents and irresponsible parents who own guns, but just because there are a few bad seeds, doesnt not mean the entire populace should suffer to lose their right. Perhaps its just survival of the fittest at its finest right there.

To you're second comment, I feel that you are generalizing on both accounts.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

Would you all like to know what a gun-owner thinks on the subject, one who isn't a raving lunatic?

Too bad you get it anyway.

I own a 12-gauge shot gun and a 22 caliber rifle. These are not because I have fallen into scare tactics of the media who tell you to sleep with a gun under your pillow(although they will just villainize you for believing them anyways). I simply have these for turkey and pheasant hunting, and it is a family tradition and teaching that you only kill what you plan upon eating, and you respect the firearm along with other responsible ideals.

My family has always had a strong belief in gun safety, and it truly shows in my useage of a firearm. Hunting is fine, selfdefense is why there are shovels and other long blunt objects.

I believe mine and only a few other escapists opinions would matter on the subject, due to the fact we are the ones who it affects, and we are the ones who who the legal, responsible, and safe ways to use and maintain a firearm.

AntiThom, all this being said: I sir, despise you.

The first person besides me that I have heard say anything relevant.

 

[rossatdi]

First off, if anyones wondering why theve been reported, that was me. Because as much as I like watching a to English speaking men from two culturally different countries squable blindly (yes you rossatdi and antithom), I feel that both of you are biased and if you have any decent bone in your bodies, should stop squabling and focus on the threat "China" poses on both our ways of life like how I do.

Please point out where I've said stuff that can't be rationally backed up or defended with evidence. I like America, I've lived there for a year, my last two girlfriends have been American.

As for you being paranoid about China, well you're being paranoid about China. Growth is never continuous. China is still playing catchup. China may become the world's biggest economy in some time. At the moment it's slightly above the UK. And the EU is still ahead of America.

 

[Lord Fujor]

well im saying gun control and not getting rid of them completly, why should these bad parents who can't even raise there kids right be allowed to own a gun. they need to prove responsibilty when it comes to stuff like this.

and you can't tell me that switzerland is like America. Europe is a completely different animal to America and then each country is in europe is different to each other. saying that everyone owns an Assualt rifle in switzerland why can't we is not an arguement worth dealing with. the only thing you can compare England and America with is that we both speak English, you dont even have that with switzerland. i mean yodelling for christ sake! what kind of country is that

 

[rossatdi]

My family has always had a strong belief in gun safety, and it truly shows in my useage of a firearm. Hunting is fine, selfdefense is why there are shovels and other long blunt objects.

AntiThom, all this being said: I sir, despise you.

The first person besides me that I have heard say anything relevant.

That's it exactly. I hope to think I've not been giving another impression. (There aren't very many wild anythings in this country worth hunting). If the country was filled with people like you then gun violence wouldn't be a particular issue.

I have not seen a convincing argument for civilians carrying handguns. They may have saved one or two lives over the years but I'd put money on them being responsible for more deaths than lives.

 

[fluffylandmine]

Would you all like to know what a gun-owner thinks on the subject, one who isn't a raving lunatic?

Too bad you get it anyway.

I own a 12-gauge shot gun and a 22 caliber rifle. These are not because I have fallen into scare tactics of the media who tell you to sleep with a gun under your pillow(although they will just villainize you for believing them anyways). I simply have these for turkey and pheasant hunting, and it is a family tradition and teaching that you only kill what you plan upon eating, and you respect the firearm along with other responsible ideals.

My family has always had a strong belief in gun safety, and it truly shows in my useage of a firearm. Hunting is fine, selfdefense is why there are shovels and other long blunt objects.

I believe mine and only a few other escapists opinions would matter on the subject, due to the fact we are the ones who it affects, and we are the ones who who the legal, responsible, and safe ways to use and maintain a firearm.

AntiThom, all this being said: I sir, despise you.

The first person besides me that I have heard say anything relevant.

I'm flattered, but I must say few of us do actually know of the issue with gun control to an intimate degree.

I'm not sure how many of you are gun owners, and at that I'm not sure how many of you use them responsibly, but I know that a reasonable amount of people are talking out the foot with irrelevance.

 

[FightThePower]

O my my. You seem to think that just because I used the caps lock I must have been shouting eh? No, as it would not have been worth getting worked up over. I simply realise that due to massive amounts of arguements in this thread, anyone not reading every post would have a very slim chance of actually reading my post and I had meant for that comment to be directed at everyone. In order to get my post noticed, I gave it an advantage that might catch peoples eye.

Well then I misinterpreted your post, and I apologise - I take it back. I do have a habit of taking things personally.

 

[Abako]

O my my. You seem to think that just because I used the caps lock I must have been shouting eh? No, as it would not have been worth getting worked up over. I simply realise that due to massive amounts of arguements in this thread, anyone not reading every post would have a very slim chance of actually reading my post and I had meant for that comment to be directed at everyone. In order to get my post noticed, I gave it an advantage that might catch peoples eye.

Well then I misinterpreted your post, and I apologise - I take it back. I do have a habit of taking things personally.

Its all good man, no harm no foul.

 

[joystickjunki3]

...it means for "a well-regulated militia" known in the US as the National Guard.

Not sure if someone already said what I'm about to say, but I'm about to leave my apartment for an appointment and I don't have the time to search for it. Militias are citizen run, independent of the government, so that the government will think twice about treating citizens wrongly. The U.S. National Guard is government run, on a state-level.

That said, I think I agree w/ everything else you said about handguns and assault weapons, but I also believe that criminals don't care about the gun control laws, so they are mostly pointless legislation. I want to stress the "mostly" part of that sentence.

EDIT: "Regulation, not prohibition" is the motto my father taught me.

 

[Danny Ocean]

I truely fear for my country if this is the face of a new generation. Do you all seriously have complete trust in those you elect? Every politician has a hidden agenda, like it or not.

Okay, so what if the government becomes a total police state, enforcing it's law with strict, harshly imposed laws. How will all your 12 guns (and 2 hands) help you then, hmm?
Besides, living in a dystopian future ain't so bad when humanity as a whole is benefiting from it.

If I am to be stigmatized for owning semi-automatic rifles and hang guns, then so be it. I can handle any amount of BS because I know that I will be a free man until the day I die.

Right... until the specially trained special forces team breaks down your door.

Being able to vote doesn't make us free, or great, or anything other than a very poorly informed mob rule.

I take it you don't vote?

On another note, will people please stop using stupid analogies to prove their point (IE. "You might as well ban stairs,", "You might as well ban cars,") as they are irrelevant in most countries. Where guns are not as common as stairs or cars.

And I didn't know that worrying about my gun rights when two men who voted to criminalize self defense, tax ammunition and firearms 500%, and ban semi automatics is going to take the highest office. I just guess was being sensational and a fear mongerer.

Emboldened text requires sources, please.

Underlined text is addressed below.
So? You plan to use the weapons for self defence, you don't need that many bullets. Unless and entire fucking gang raids your house, in which case you'll be screwed over at night when you can't fight back.

My sincere apoogies for upsetting the duped masses.

It's O.K., us 728 000 000 people forgive you.

 

[Galletea]

I always wonder why people, who are not prepared to listen to opinions that don't concur with their own, start threads in a forum labelled "Off Topic Discussion"

I personally agree with Rossatdi, taking away your 'right' to bear arms would be a good thing. If it didn't reduce crime then it would reduce the number of deaths from crimes; as your average store robber would find it harder to get armed. Yes gangs still have guns here, but if a gang wants to shoot you, it's unlikely that you're going to get a chance to shoot first anyway, so your right to own a gun still leaves you impotent.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

Good, you americans cannot even be trusted to handle vegetable peelers. You do not deserve firearms. However on the other hand it is your access to guns that helps keep your population in check thus preventing your stupidity from overrunning the world... come to think of it most americans have the same IQ, gait, smell, volcabulary and voracious appetite as the living dead... *flee*

Hey! Not all Americans are like that.....I sir take offense at that...in fact, by saying that, you have become as intolerant as the American stereotype that you discriminate against.

 

[Danny Ocean]

I always wonder why people, who are not prepared to listen to opinions that don't concur with their own, start threads in a forum labelled "Off Topic Discussion"

I personally agree with Rossatdi, taking away your 'right' to bear arms would be a good thing. If it didn't reduce crime then it would reduce the number of deaths from crimes; as your average store robber would find it harder to get armed. Yes gangs still have guns here, but if a gang wants to shoot you, it's unlikely that you're going to get a chance to shoot first anyway, so your right to own a gun still leaves you impotent.

This. Read this instead of my last post.

Seems (reading the last couple of pages) that I've inadvertently re-kindled this debate.