FortressCraft Q&A (for those who still think it's a blatant rip-off)

[webby]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! Will people please stop saying that fortresscraft is a carbon copy of minecraft from a BAD 50sec trailer that showed us the basic editing game mode.

I think minecraft is the birth of a new genre, in the same way one platforming game had to start things but guess what when other similar platformers with some differences, which fortress craft has if you check stuff up about it, they weren't called rip-offs they were just trying some slight differences with a new genre which fortress craft will do, well at least from what I know about it.

All games go through this, all FPS's were originally "Doom Clones" and they were more varied than FC is when compared to MC. Open world sandbox games are still "GTA Clones" in some quarters. The way to fix that is by making suitable changes that people can see. Right now those changes aren't evident and probably won't be until it is fully released.

here are some differences that I know about already:
- different game mods
- different enemies (no creepers thank god, hate those buggers)
- regular 5 days updates which will mean that the game will change over time and hopefully go into a different direction then minecraft because I don't want to stick my neck out for this game for it to turn out just to actually be a minecraft rip-off.
- completely different coding
- something he keeps referring to as machinery

Different enemies do not a different game make. If I replace koopas in mario with talking rhinos is it then not a rip off?? That argument doesn't really get off the floor. Same goes for update regularity, that is a bonus in the games favour but it hardly stops it being a rip off. Sure, that lends it the option to change, but how often do updates of XBLA games completely alter the fundementals in the game?? rarely if ever. This also assumes that those "5 day upgrades" will be maintained for a prolonged period of time which I am incredibly sceptical about.

People keep harping on about different coding but it again seems like a frivolous argument. If I make a machine that uses some form of fuel to power an engine that turns wheels to transport people and materials. Even if my mechanical parts are slightly different, it is still a car. Sure, to a mechanic the differences will be evident but to an outside observer I have simply made a car, and that's similar to what has happened here, sure the coding may be different but it does such a similar thing it is meaningless.

 

[OctalLord]

"If you think you can do it better? Why don't you?"


Looks like DJArcas took that to heart and is in the process of it, he's poring his heart and soul into making a similer game that is as good as or better than Minecraft(We don't know until we can play it.)

So it looks like Minecraft? Well Minecraft Looks like Infiniminer. It's all part of the "Block Builder/Digger" Genre now.

 

[Sovereignty]

This should be flattering. Minecraft is so widely liked it's getting it's first clone.

And bringing it to a console? Well Kudos on that one. If they released it for the PC however.. I'd be pissed.

But yeah taking it where it's creator has yet to go? Can't hate on people for being ambitious and wanting to make a buck.

 

[webby]

All games go through this, all FPS's were originally "Doom Clones"

Sure, but in order for this argument to hold any water there will have to be lots of more Minecraft style games in the future as well. If only Fortresscraft plus 1 or 2 other vaguely similar games end up being released then its not the birth of a new generation of games, but merely the birth of Minecraft and a few clones/rip-offs.

If we see shitloads of Minecraft style games in the future, I will agree with the the "Minecraft is becoming its own gen" claim, but in the meantime the claim holds no water.

It seems my point was missed with that statement a little bit. I'm saying that FC is a rip off, I used the "Doom Clone" analogy to show how things with vague similarities are always going to be compared even when there are substantial differences. FC has very little difference when compared to MC so it is obviously going to be called a clone (deservedly so) until it does something completely noteworthy to distance itself. Until that day comes people have to get used to FC simply being called a clone or a rip off.

 

[nuba km]

snip

it is very unique and I think it does deserve a new genre (don't know the name though) alos people could have said doom is just part of the shoot em up genre but no it was unique enough to get the genre FPS.

here are some differences that I know about already:
- different game mods
- different enemies (no creepers thank god, hate those buggers)
- regular 5 days updates which will mean that the game will change over time and hopefully go into a different direction then minecraft because I don't want to stick my neck out for this game for it to turn out just to actually be a minecraft rip-off.
- completely different coding
- something he keeps referring to as machinery

Different enemies do not a different game make. If I replace koopas in mario with talking rhinos is it then not a rip off?? That argument doesn't really get off the floor. Same goes for update regularity, that is a bonus in the games favour but it hardly stops it being a rip off. Sure, that lends it the option to change, but how often do updates of XBLA games completely alter the fundementals in the game?? rarely if ever.

People keep harping on about different coding but it again seems like a frivolous argument. If I make a machine that uses some form of fuel to power an engine that turns wheels to transport people and materials even if my mechanical parts are slightly different, it is still a car. Sure, to a mechanic the differences will be evident but to an outside observer I have simply made a car, and that's similar to what has happened here, sure the coding may be different but it does such a similar thing it is meaningless.

- with different enemies I think he means they behave differently not just a different sprite but there will properly be some samey enemies like a zombie equivalent.
- I mean that because it updates regularly it can change a little bit every 5 days that means 73 changes a year that could easily add up especially with him aiming to bring out a new chapter every 4-6 months so 73 small changes and 2-3 Massive core gamplay changes a year. this could easily makes this game completely different by the end year.
- That's just to show that the person didn't just rip off minecrafts coding and released it for xbox but actually bothered to code all that stuff himself.

 

[webby]

- with different enemies I think he means they behave differently not just a different sprite but there will properly be some samey enemies like a zombie equivalent.
- I mean that because it updates regularly it can change a little bit every 5 days that means 73 changes a year that could easily add up especially with him aiming to bring out a new chapter every 4-6 months so 73 small changes and 2-3 Massive core gamplay changes a year. this could easily makes this game completely different by the end year.
- That's just to show that the person didn't just rip off minecrafts coding and released it for xbox but actually bothered to code all that stuff himself.

Even with different behaviour patterns if they're placed in a familiar environment comparisons are going to be made. To keep the Mario analogy going, get rid of koopas and goombas and replace them with rhinos and giraffes. Rhinos move from left to right but occasionally charge and when they do theyre invincible, giraffes are tall and slow but will track you down. Now they have different behaviours but the game is still a rip off. I see the point you are making but new enemies in a game seems like something a sequel does (like Gears of War did) instead of something a completely new idea does.

I see what you're saying about updates potentially changing the game, but right now that is just speculation and depends on whether the updates even occur. In the future the game may become different but as it stands it looks to be a rip off.

The coding also had to be changed. I'm not entirely sure (never played MC) but I believe it uses Java and therefore couldn't be directly ported to consoles. To again keep my car analogy going, it's like having to find a work around for not being able to use petrol or diesel. The core mechanisms are still the same but the internal dynamic of how it works had to be altered to fit the new restrictions.

 

[Eisenfaust]

you're right... that 1 minute video has completely convinced me that it still is a rip off...

"but... but... there's no copyright!!!!" what kind of excuse is that? sure you might not get sued (as much) but the ripping off is still there...

 

[Gerrawn]

Wow, the avatars look so out of place in those screenshots.

 

[Blackadder51]

Rip Off = Rip Off.

 

[nuba km]

- with different enemies I think he means they behave differently not just a different sprite but there will properly be some samey enemies like a zombie equivalent.
- I mean that because it updates regularly it can change a little bit every 5 days that means 73 changes a year that could easily add up especially with him aiming to bring out a new chapter every 4-6 months so 73 small changes and 2-3 Massive core gamplay changes a year. this could easily makes this game completely different by the end year.
- That's just to show that the person didn't just rip off minecrafts coding and released it for xbox but actually bothered to code all that stuff himself.

Even with different behaviour patterns if they're placed in a familiar environment comparisons are going to be made. To keep the Mario analogy going, get rid of koopas and goombas and replace them with rhinos and giraffes. Rhinos move from left to right but occasionally charge and when they do theyre invincible, giraffes are tall and slow but will track you down. Now they have different behaviours but the game is still a rip off. I see the point you are making but new enemies in a game seems like something a sequel does (like Gears of War did) instead of something a completely new idea does.

I see what you're saying about updates potentially changing the game, but right now that is just speculation and depends on whether the updates even occur. In the future the game may become different but as it stands it looks to be a rip off.

The coding also had to be changed. I'm not entirely sure (never played MC) but I believe it uses Java and therefore couldn't be directly ported to consoles. To again keep my car analogy going, it's like having to find a work around for not being able to use petrol or diesel. The core mechanisms are still the same but the internal dynamic of how it works had to be altered to fit the new restrictions.

- using you analogy I will show how sonic is a mario clone:
what sonic is ripping off:
both are about getting to the end without dying
both have enemies you have to avoid (they will not be appearing in changes due to their different behaviour because according to you that's not different enough)
both have bosses
both have same basic gameplay
Changes:
sonic moves faster
different graphics
different health system

wow you have just made me realise that sonic is a Mario clone and therefore Nintendo should sue sega /sarcasm. You will properly make the argument 'well there are sufficient changes' I will just want you to tell me what is the line between sufficint change and clone in platformers and mincraftish games.

-well I have played minecraft (and love it) and researched fortresscraft and it's starting off as very similar to minecraft but with very different ideas for the future with wanting more combat for one example.

- just to go with your car metaphor every car is ripping off the first ever car.

 

[webby]

- using you analogy I will show how sonic is a mario clone:
what sonic is ripping off:
both are about getting to the end without dying
both have enemies you have to avoid (they will not be appearing in changes due to their different behaviour because according to you that's not different enough)
both have bosses
both have same basic gameplay
Changes:
sonic moves faster
different graphics
different health system

wow you have just made me realise that sonic is a Mario clone and therefore Nintendo should sue sega /sarcasm. You will properly make the argument 'well there are sufficient changes' I will just want you to tell me what is the line between sufficint change and clone in platformers and mincraftish games.

-well I have played minecraft (and love it) and researched fortresscraft and it's starting off as very similar to minecraft but with very different ideas for the future with wanting more combat for one example.

- just to go with your car metaphor every car is ripping off the first ever car.

First of all you have kind of bastardised my original point about different character behaviours not mattering. I said that different character behaviours in the same basic environment are still a rip off.

Back to your point though, getting to the end without dying is a hallmark of about 75% of all games. Not really a valid point. Id also debate the idea that they have the same basic gameplay.

As for differences. You completely skipped over different level structure (Mario was always linear, left to right, Sonic had you ocasionally in maze type situations), different level types (compare underwater Mario levels to underwater Sonic levels, completely different methods of playing), completely different skills from one main character to another (being able to roll as Sonic and so on), completely different power ups (Flower compared to bubble shield), and a vivid and different world (Mushroom kingdom compared to anything in Sonic). Add that to the list of different health system and completely different graphics and you have completely separate games that handle and are played completely differently. Your analogy fails.

You managed to give me 5 differences... 5. One of which you admit you have no idea about (The "machinery" thing), one of which was a complete necessity (new type of coding), one of which is yet to take place (updates), one being different enemies (but in am almost identical environment), and one being different game mods (which is similar to to the updates really). So I'm struggling to see any hard differences.

Ignoring that though, even if Sonic was a carbon copy of Mario (it's not) that still wouldn't invalidate my claim that FortressCraft is a rip off of MineCraft. You seem to be making the "other people have done it before, so if it's done now there's nothing wrong with it!" argument which is completely ridiculous. This is the most important thing to take away from all of this, you can try to distract from the point with random analogies to other games being rip offs as much as you want, that doesn't alter the fact that right here, right now, FortressCraft is ripping off MineCraft.

Since this got long. Basically, regardless of what other people have done, that doesn't change the fact that FortressCraft is a rip off... And FortressCraft is a rip off.

 

[Ungenericteen]

I'm glad I can finally play something like mine craft (my computer cannot download it) but I wish it was and xbl port not some one else taking mojang's work

 

[Smooth Operator]

Such copies are not illegal, but it is still a copy and good business, kill or be killed...

 

[GiantRaven]

So, in essence, FortressCraft isn't a rip-off...because they say so? That's the best they could come up with?

As far as I'm concerned, yes, FortressCraft is a blatant rip-off, cashing in on the success of MineCraft. However, that doesn't mean it's going to be bad, or that it won't have any original ideas (which it really does need to have, or it won't stand out in the slightest). The only problem I have is the name, 'FortressCraft' is too obvious for my liking.

There's no reason why a multitude of games utilising the same basic idea can't co-exist, providing they all differ on more specific aspects and ideas. That's how genres are formed.

No it did not, the term "first person shooter" did not become common until years after Doom's release once the market had too many Doom clones for it to make any sense to call every shooter a Doom clone. Nothing similar has happened to Minecraft, there is only the actual Minecraft, Fortresscraft and that's it.

In the space of, what, less than a year since MineCraft's boom in popularity? That's a pretty small amount of time to be writing off the idea that there could be a similar (although most likely smaller) boom of titles akin to the beginnings of the FPS.

 

[starwarsgeek]

Rip-offs are what help an idea become a genre. I look forward to seeing what this grows into.

 

[nuba km]

- using you analogy I will show how sonic is a mario clone:
what sonic is ripping off:
both are about getting to the end without dying
both have enemies you have to avoid (they will not be appearing in changes due to their different behaviour because according to you that's not different enough)
both have bosses
both have same basic gameplay
Changes:
sonic moves faster
different graphics
different health system

wow you have just made me realise that sonic is a Mario clone and therefore Nintendo should sue sega /sarcasm. You will properly make the argument 'well there are sufficient changes' I will just want you to tell me what is the line between sufficint change and clone in platformers and mincraftish games.

-well I have played minecraft (and love it) and researched fortresscraft and it's starting off as very similar to minecraft but with very different ideas for the future with wanting more combat for one example.

- just to go with your car metaphor every car is ripping off the first ever car.

First of all you have kind of bastardised my original point about different character behaviours not mattering. I said that different character behaviours in the same basic environment are still a rip off.

Back to your point though, getting to the end without dying is a hallmark of about 75% of all games. Not really a valid point. Id also debate the idea that they have the same basic gameplay.

As for differences. You completely skipped over different level structure (Mario was always linear, left to right, Sonic had you ocasionally in maze type situations), different level types (compare underwater Mario levels to underwater Sonic levels, completely different methods of playing), completely different skills from one main character to another (being able to roll as Sonic and so on), completely different power ups (Flower compared to bubble shield), and a vivid and different world (Mushroom kingdom compared to anything in Sonic). Add that to the list of different health system and completely different graphics and you have completely separate games that handle and are played completely differently. Your analogy fails.

You managed to give me 5 differences... 5. One of which you admit you have no idea about (The "machinery" thing), one of which was a complete necessity (new type of coding), one of which is yet to take place (updates), one being different enemies (but in am almost identical environment), and one being different game mods (which is similar to to the updates really). So I'm struggling to see any hard differences.

Ignoring that though, even if Sonic was a carbon copy of Mario (it's not) that still wouldn't invalidate my claim that FortressCraft is a rip off of MineCraft. You seem to be making the "other people have done it before, so if it's done now there's nothing wrong with it!" argument which is completely ridiculous. This is the most important thing to take away from all of this, you can try to distract from the point with random analogies to other games being rip offs as much as you want, that doesn't alter the fact that right here, right now, FortressCraft is ripping off MineCraft.

Since this got long. Basically, regardless of what other people have done, that doesn't change the fact that FortressCraft is a rip off... And FortressCraft is a rip off.

first I am making the point that people are claiming that this is a rip off way to quickly, now back to the sonic mario thing:
both have the same basic environment being a far away land with wird wildlife and plants and a lot of gaps (fortress craft will have a different game mode that minecraft doesn't have like the maze, linear thing), as for the underwater thing in both they move slower then they usually do but increase horizontal movement, they both move quickly and jump as well as gaining power ups to improve their chance of survival (their similar type of block in fortresscraft then their are in minecraft but they will function differently), My analogy stands.

I gave 5 differences 1 of which is going to be something new for this type of game not yet done by it's counterpart (machinery), 1 which some arrogant people don't believe, 1 which is a important part of the gameplay, 1 which is a point that this game will develop the same way that minecraft has developed from a infiniminerish game to a very different kind of game over more then a year, and 1 being a new gamemechanic, things seem different depending on how you phrase them.

showing that people are using flawed arguments out of hate without researching something does validate what fortresscraft is doing.

basically as this got long, no matter how ignorant people are fortress craft hasn't done anything wrong unless nearly every game ever has been unoriginal cloning other older games which are clearly better and these newer games should not be bought because of it.

 

[Devin Power]

What you're forgetting about the minecraft is an infinite miner clone argument:

Minecraft was free to begin with, it didn't cost money until it was no longer a clone.
This asks for money starting from a clone

 

[nuba km]

it is very unique and I think it does deserve a new genre (don't know the name though) alos people could have said doom is just part of the shoot em up genre but no it was unique enough to get the genre FPS.

No it did not, the term "first person shooter" did not become common until years after Doom's release once the market had too many Doom clones for it to make any sense to call every shooter a Doom clone. Nothing similar has happened to Minecraft, there is only the actual Minecraft, Fortresscraft and that's it.

yes this is why I am calling it the BIRTH of a genre doom was the birth of the FPS but the FPS genre still didn't develop till later as there are 3 infiniminer like games, minercaft, infiniminer and fortress craft, and it will take a while for other people to make infiniminer like games, which will properly happen after the huge boom of minecraft, and in about 20 or so years there will be people saying that ... is basically minecraft 3 if it didn't turn off the lights, hit a wall and forgot it wasn't fortresscraft/ infiniminer/ the next infiniminer like game.