Franchises that NEED to DIE, and those that will last forever

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REDPill357

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ChrisP.Lettuce said:
- F.E.A.R Needs to kick ye bucket, use that awesome clever AI to make a new creative game prz
Project Origin, the TRUE sequel, has not even been released. Needless to say, it's not ready to kick ye bucket yet.

Santhenar said:
Half-Life 2 = Mediocre
Episode 1 = See above
Episode 2 = See Episode 1
I don't get this attitude in people. How is HL2 bad? IT HAS THE GRAVITY GUN! STRIDERS! MEGA-GRAVITY GUN! ANTLIONS!
 

L4Y Duke

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Nov 24, 2007
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Personally, I'm fed up with pretty much every cash-cow currently in the hands of Nintendo.

Mario? Go away. PLEASE.
Zelda? Innovate or exterminate. (That INCLUDES creating an innovating story)
Metroid? You can stay. For now...

Oh, and Dynasty Warriors, despite being rather good, needs some new life in it too.

C&C can stay alive for a while longer. C&C3 wasn't that bad, but Kane's Wraith (the expansion) needs to have something really gripping for the series to get back on its feet.

Devil May Cry is awesome, it can stick around.

Final Fantasy? Bury it.

Metal Gear Solid, despite being rather incredible, could use with a gracious stepping aside. Let MGS4 be the sendoff worthy of the series.

Star Wars can stay, but only if they can keep making games based on periods not in the movies. Be it KotOR-esque (before I-III), Empire at War-esque (between III and IV), or Jedi Outcast-esque (set after VI).
 

PurpleRain

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REDPill357 said:
Santhenar said:
Half-Life 2 = Mediocre
Episode 1 = See above
Episode 2 = See Episode 1
I don't get this attitude in people. How is HL2 bad? IT HAS THE GRAVITY GUN! STRIDERS! MEGA-GRAVITY GUN! ANTLIONS!
I agree with you there. I don't care if they get up to making 'Half Life 10: Barney's son's brother's roommate's adventure in space' I'll still love it. So far I haven't been let down. I haven't found anything in the whole series that has truely disappointed me yet.

On the other hand I think that Dynasty Warriors, and anygame in the least but like it (Samuri Warriors, Nighty Nine Nights, Gundam Warriors, etc) should all burn in hell. Dynasty Warriors 2 was fun until you get about half way through it and give up. Then they just keep squirting out the sequels. BURN damnit!
 

Sylocat

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Nov 13, 2007
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Any survival horror franchise. People accuse Nintendo of remaking formulaic franchises, and yet I cannot offhand think of any significant difference between any two zombie shooters on the market. Name me one survival horror game that doesn't consist of a stereotypically attractive twenty-year-old protagonist shooting a pile of slow-moving dead people, with the occasional boss-that-always-looks-suspiciously-like-the-rock-guy-from-Fantastic-Four thrown in to add "variety" to the bestiary.

The same goes for two-player fighting games, the so-called "game" genre that started with Mortal Kombat, but thankfully, most of those franchises HAVE died off by now, so I don't need to say anything.

Not that I'm making excuses for Nintendo. I do agree that the Zelda franchise's time has come and gone. As much as I loved (and still do love) the older games, it's over, and it needs to end (or at least get shaken up with something new, like in Majora's Mask). Same goes for Mario.
The Final Fantasy series... well, I'll probably get flamed to a crisp amongst this crowd if I admit that I haven't played a single one (aside from 8) that I really dislike, so I'll just stick with makishima's point: At least they've TRIED to put something new in each title. Yes, they should probably ditch the moniker to avoid the numbering tedium.
Half-Life is wearing out its welcome fast. As good as the first game was, it's starting to get a little repetitive (that seesaw puzzle, as Yahtzee pointed out, is just getting old).
 

Jeigan

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Dec 13, 2007
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Ok people, here are a few things that some, not all, but some people need to understand.
1. Not everything is a take off of LOTR, fantasy was not copyrighted by J.R.R. Tolkien
2.If there is a decent fan base that play and enjoy the game being made, a sequel will be made. Look at Star Wars dvd box sets, has the content ever changed? Hardly ever! But the color the box set is classified by does, and there's random fan commentary! Fun, right?
3. Stating the same thing over and over is stupid. If you want to debate, fine, I love debating, and a bit of that has happened here. But stop posting your list with the same games as the last poster.
As far as MGS and Zelda go, their stories aren't finished yet. I've only ever played MGS: Sons of Liberty, but if the main character (don't remember his name) is alive, the story isn't over, as far as I know. Zelda isn't the same game over and over again. In my opinion , and feel free to disagree with it, Miyamoto has a plan. Look up the split time line theory and everything falls in to place much too well. When the time line recombines and for all intents and purposes, the story is over, will Nintendo want another Zelda game made? Hell yes they will, because it will sell. Now, someone state their own opinions and then we can start something interesting.
 

eggdog14

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Jeigan said:
As far as MGS and Zelda go, their stories aren't finished yet. I've only ever played MGS: Sons of Liberty, but if the main character (don't remember his name) is alive, the story isn't over, as far as I know. Zelda isn't the same game over and over again. In my opinion , and feel free to disagree with it, Miyamoto has a plan. Look up the split time line theory and everything falls in to place much too well. When the time line recombines and for all intents and purposes, the story is over, will Nintendo want another Zelda game made? Hell yes they will, because it will sell. Now, someone state their own opinions and then we can start something interesting.
(the LOTR comment was only for perspective)

On that note, the Zelda are on a thin line between needing to be to be offed or not. To start, the stories while pretty much identical, are in no way connected to eachother. Each game has a different Link, with a different Hyrule, with a different Zelda, which means they don't have to try and relate to or bounce off of eachother, so technically the series could go on forever as long as they think of new, creative gameplay.

Unfortunately, the latter is more difficult: Twilight Princess for the Wii is a great game, but it doesn't deserve the ridiculous reviews its gotten. While it's certainly polished and well-made, it's still all to similar an experience to Ocarina to be "unique."

Here comes the decision: yes, the games are very similar, but each seems to improve on the other; none of them are "Bad." They still set the standard for fantasy RPGs. Say they scrap the franchise and make a new RPG with a new kingdom and a new arbitrarily named hero, they'd spend more time on the story than the gameplay. Which is more important in that type of game?


About Mario, everybody loves Mario. He'll never die. But Nintendo kind of screwed themselves over by making GALAXY so fucking awesome.

They're going to have to be really, ridiculously, stupendously creative with this next one because they're going to be facing an impossibly tough crowd.


Sylocat said:
Half-Life is wearing out its welcome fast. As good as the first game was, it's starting to get a little repetitive (that seesaw puzzle, as Yahtzee pointed out, is just getting old).
you're wrong.
 

squirrelman42

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Dec 13, 2007
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reasons to keep some of these going:

If you think Pokemon must die, clearly you are not the demographic that plays it. Pokemon is a great series for young kids to get into the RPG and gaming world. It's fun, catchy, and gets kids interested in games. We need games like Pokemon to keep the young ones from turning to little league.

As for Mario: he's doing great, have you actually played galaxy?

Zelda: needs another console installment with a tangential story like Majora's Mask.

Warcraft: um, shut up that's why! (I actually have managed to dig out the storyline from the quest chains and I like it)

I do agree that Sonic needs to sit his speedy-butt down and enjoy some vacation and stay down until he can come up with something good. Mortal Kombat too.
 

super_smash_jesus

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for those that have said Zelda should die....for shame sirs. It may run through the same story every time a new game comes out, but at least it is a winning formula. Twilight princess is possibly the best game i have ever played, and the phantom hourglass was bitchin fun, they are getting better at making these and i say if they end up making another 14 games, i will be fine with it.
 

Niccolo

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REDPill357 said:
HDRob Inglis said:
Games whose number of sequels exceeds 4.
Two words to counter that: Half-Life.
Hmm... I dunno if episodic gaming counts for that.

I think, rather than killing off individual franchises (except for Pokemon - I loved red/blue since I was 7 when I played, and gold when I was 9, but now it must die) I say we just massacre the bigwigs at EA.
 

PurpleRain

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squirrelman42 said:
I do agree that Sonic needs to sit his speedy-butt down and enjoy some vacation and stay down until he can come up with something good. Mortal Kombat too.
Martal Kombat came up with something good a little while ago: Shaolin Monks. But that's pretty much it.
 

CyberAkuma

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Nov 27, 2007
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Half-Life 2 expansion packs, hands down.
Half-Life 2 in all it's glory, all these 2-year-waiting-period-for-the-next-expansion-pack is getting pretty much on everyone's nerve.

While I do appreciate that Valve is developing and remaking their graphcis engine with HDR lightning and some other nice varieties, I'd rather prefer them relseasing all the expansion packs in say less than 2 years and then go ahead and work on Half-Life 3.

The development time between the expanion packs are getting rediculous and it's about darn time they take a new aim at a sequel rather than releasing 3 expansion packs in 5 years.
 

PurpleRain

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I hope Medal of Honor finally cocks it. They've been beaten in everyway by CoD and BiA so I hope they finally give it up.

Also Kingdom Of Hearts. I've never played it, only watched a friend. Watching the new trailer made me feel like it's left the whole disney theme and has gone venturing into FF which is a bad place to be.
 

Kikosemmek

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Nov 14, 2007
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I will reply to many posts in this thread, so I didn't take my time to quote each one individually. I'll address them by topics:

Half-Life: I agree with some here that the first game was truly unrivaled. HL2 and the Ep.s didn't make me think of the first game. Aside from the obvious carry-overs from HL1, like some of the monsters, Gordon+the crowbar, and the atmospheric gameplay, HL2 inherited little, for me. Perhaps that's good, because the game didn't repeat itself, but in a way the fact that it didn't made me sad. I _loved_ Half-Life, because, like the title suggests, on average my life meter was down at 50%. I ran for my life when I played the first game (and opposing force, as they weren't different at all to me). It felt way more vicious and engaging. In HL1, Gordon doesn't agree to anything. He's just plunged into situations where he has to do his best to not-die, an activity we all love to engage in. In HL2 he's part of something bigger and the game assumes Gordon would love nothing more than to enlist himself. Whatever, that didn't ruin it for me, but it was different. I felt completely helpless in HL1. In HL2 I was largely empowered. Even the claustrophobic fights seemed easy compared to the ones from HL1. If there's anything Valve knows how to do, though, is create an atmosphere, and I'm glad they remembered that, and it shows in HL2 and the Episodes. One moment you're in a tight, dark space with zombies making horrid noises and lunges at you while the next battle involves you in an open city with a company of rebels taking down gigantic robots. That's awesone, and not many games can get me into an immersive mindset as the HL series does.

I do NOT think Half-Life should die. I didn't think HL2 was everything HL1 was, but fuck it, I still enjoyed it. In fact, my expectations of HL2 weren't all that high, because I was already accustomed to disappointing sequels. So, basically, I wasn't even disappointed. HL2 has another theme to it, and while it is not my cup of tea, I can still have fun with it. Besides, who doesn't want answers to all the questions that pop up whenever you think you might get answers? Half-Life actually has a storyline that I care about knowing the ending to. So that's that.

About fantasy and LOTR (I know it's not about gaming directly but I felt like discussing this): There are two major themes that I see reproduced in fantasy games, and they are Warhammer and Dungeons and Dragons. Being a fan of PnP and tabletop gaming of both franchises, I can't help but recognise the inspiration these two universes gave to video games. Some games admit their relations to the aforementioned themes directly, such as the Baldur's Gate, Dawn of War (though this one is 40k, but let's get serious, here, because it's the same universe in a different setting) or Neverwinter Nights series, while others merely hint at it, like Warcraft, Starcraft (again, 40k) or Dragon Age (yet-unreleased game by Bioware that I think will rock the casbah). Both Warhammer and DnD sprawled from the popularity of Lord of the Rings, without question, as Tolkien brought fantasy motifs like dwarves, hobbits, gnomes, orcs, elves, dragons, demons, the undead, enchanted equipment, and magic, etc to the public more efficiently than his own inspirations, which can be found largely in European folktales and mythology. LOTR took these fantastical (mind the pun) concepts and made them shine, and from the minds of his later readers came many other books and games. DnD and WH are the most well-known. I therefore argue that most fantasy games _do_, directly or indirectly, take much from Tolkien's books. Many people draw a line between sci-fi and fantasy, but I do not, so to me games that sprawl out of WH40K also, ultimately take from LOTR, though probably in diminished amounts.

Mario and Pokemon: I played every single game in that franchise, and every time I played (ever since Paper Mario and Silver/Gold, respectively) I realized more and more how much these franchises needed to be put to sleep. You can't tell me that I didn't play them or that I wasn't a fan. I did and I was. I played Pearl/Diamond and Galaxy and hated myself for doing it. I didn't finish either game and gave them both back to the store. I figure Nintendo keeps making the same games because since we grew up from our childhood hooked on Mario, younger kids will be hooked on Paper or Galaxy. Same with Pokemon. I honestly think that after the first 150 Pokemon everything else was worthy of cold rejection, and I couldn't enjoy the games because I didn't even like the monsters I was training. Mario? I got sick of rescuing the princess. It's simple as that. Every time I see Mario I think to myself 'dump that *****, man.' When Nintendo makes a game where Mario dumps that ***** (but doesn't do something stupid like play hockey-soccer or heal patients, god these games sucked) and takes part in a clever, new storyline that isn't completely childish and colorful, I'll give them a break.

Warcraft: No. I wash my hands of it. It's not that WoW is a bad game. I really just didn't like the story after the 3rd installment. It's that simple. I don't even like MMO's, so it's a surprise I gave WoW a chance, because I usually despise blunt money-makers. WoW is the king of heroin-cashflow-MMO's, but I still gave it a go because it's Warcraft. I was surprised that the story sucked and was engineered to lead into another stupid money-making game. Guys, you're caught in the machine. Take the needles out of your arms.

GTA: Couldn't agree more. After 2, I had little appreciation for the series. I still have 2, actually, and it's still fun.

I'm going to add a new game and say that Worms has to die. Did anyone play Mayhem? I wish I hadn't. Worms has been one of the best games ever to me and up to and including Armageddon, I had nothing bad to say about it. Goddamnit, Mayhem sucked. If they ever make a 5, I suggest going back to 2d.
 

tobyornottoby

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Jan 2, 2008
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man I'm glad we're living in a free market economy :p

all those games you wine about? they exist because a whole lot of other people smile about 'm.

People that can't see how someone could have fun with something as the 'sims'... that's as low as people who can't see how games are fun/useful. Don't go there please.

(yeah I'm contradicting. I can't stand people who can't stand people >.>)
 

Drong

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Oct 31, 2007
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Wolfgod said:
but we are SOL because it seems nintendo doesnt have a origanal cell left in their brain and sony never really had a main character
and the xbox BAH
Kikosemmek said:
Nintendo is the mother of my hatreds for such franchises: Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda must DIE!

When was the last time Nintendo came out with a new game concept that didn't suck my balls or is horrendously outdated?
ok I'm primarily a pc & ps3 player though my bro has a 360 and I spend alot of time on that too but you have to be blind and stupid to not see that Nintendo has done something original with the Wii, I brought one to play with my friends for party games (and use the other systems for 'serious' games) but yeah they may be flogging the old franchises to death but they are at least pushing the envelope in other ways, plus the girls will play the Wii and they would never dream of playing on the PS or the X-box (ok a generalisation there and I know there are a lot of girl gamers, unfortunately the girls I hang with aren't and view the whole thing as ?anti social? when the guys come round for a gaming night)

And as the rest of you are whining bitatches who wouldn't know a good thing if it slapped you in the chops, HL2 was revolutionary, that's right you heard me, revolutionary, it was the first fps that actually got physics right for everything, had a original and solid storyline, bundled a top multiplayer game for free in the form of CS source, forget now it's a couple of years old but there's good reasons it won pratically every award in the book when it came out and is still going strong now.

The same with wow, umpteen million people can?t be wrong, just cause it's not your bag get over it and realise that it?s still doing good things for those who love it, there are far worse series out there that need killing off (All the EA sports games for starters) without slamming Valve and Blizzard, some of the few companies with the balls to keep trying new things and refining existing concepts to a near perfect level, they are continuing to make gaming an art form and if you've become so jaded and cynical that you can't see it then I feel sorry for you.