Phazonstorm said:
... No, there's only one Nintendo franchise that deserves to be taken into the barn and given both barrels, and that's Zelda. Twilight Princess wasn't anywhere near as good as the older Zelda titles.
I would tend to disagree with that statement. I think a series can be forgiven for repetitive story-lines if it's still really fun. While I do agree with you liking of Link's Awakening (who'd have guessed?) Just because TP wasn't as ground-breaking as Ocarina of Time doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to exist. In my opinion, TP for the Wii is a shining example of How To Make a Sword-Swinging Game, even with the controls tacked on at the last second. If you hadn't played Ocarina of Time (Like, for instance, if you never owned an N64), would you really think TP was that horrible? With the exception of Gamespot (does anybody take them seriously anymore anyway?), TP got almost universally 9-10/10. Why? Because it's ridiculously fun. Nintento promises that the next Zelda game will go in directions we don't expect. While that might be slight hyberbole, we don't know. But here's a question - without Zelda, what GOOD fantasy adventure games do we have? All that come close do way too much of one thing and not enough of another. Zelda combines, and always has combined, puzzle-solving with adventuring, a unique not-quite-RPG style that makes it so your character is stronger based on how well you have explored the world, not by how many monsters you killed. What do we have besides Zelda? We have hack-and-slash games like God of War, which, while nice, are too obsessed with being gore-soaked and in-your-face, and are too repetitive in game-play (not whole game - gameplay) to really be as deep. We have RPGs like Final Fantasy, or Oblivion, which are also not the same. Frankly, Zelda is its own genre, and we can forgive a few bombs for the real gems that come out of there. If Zelda dies, there is simply nothing else to replace it. And don't reply with Shadow of the Colossus. That's still not the same. Zelda appeals to the fantasy lover everywhere - not just the RPG enthusiast, or the sword-fighters, or the puzzlers, etc.. Relax - I didn't like Phourglass either. But the Zelda team has some of the best minds in gaming behind it - and they never screw up twice in a row.
Also, dear community - comparing Mario and Zelda games now to Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time and complaining because they're "not innovative enough" is not only unfair, it's a little hypocritical - especially since the people saying it are more than likely to play one pistol-shotgun-rifle-sniper-rockets FPS after another. Mario 64 and OoT were innovative because they switched to 3D, and did it with style and class and functionality and fun. Modern games don't have another dimension to jump into - how can you top the jump into 3D? by making the game control better, increasing the fun parts, and taking away the not-fun parts. HELLO. That's what they're doing with Mario Galaxy and Zelda, Twilight Princess. So they messed up on Sunshine and Wind Waker. BUT THEN THEY FIXED IT. Here - does this sound familiar? Mario game released, sequel was different, people didn't like it, so they went back to formula and made another. 64-Sunshine-Galaxy? Yes, but also Super Mario bros-2-3! Zelda game, different zelda game, back to form? Ocarina - Wind WAker - TP? Yes, but also Zelda: Zelda II, Link to the Past. What if Mario and Zelda had died then?
I am also dead sick of the idea that because one game isn't as good as past games in a series, the series must be discontinued. Most of the time, it is as good - it's just not different enough. Here's an idea - if it helps your bitter mind, think of those games as expansions, rather than true sequels. Here you go, world - if you liked Ocarina of Time (generally agreed to be the best game ever), here's a love letter: Twilight Princess. Excellent controls, awesome gear, and gameplay that is PURELY FUN. Remember fun? We used to have it before we all became reviewers who complain about games we don't like while we keep on buying the same damn FPS over and over again.
OK, so am I being a might hypocritical and bitter because I'm bad at Halo? Maybe. Just remember, board - blindly taking the same point of view as Yahtzee doesn't make you cool. Even if it did, people are still free to disagree. I agree that Phourglass was not up to par. I also agree that Zelda needs to innovate, but come on - if it dies, what will we play?
Oh - and it's also not fair for a series to "have to die because older games were better" because we have younger gamers among us who might never get the chance to play those older games.
OK, I promise I'm done ranting.
Now, for the purpose of the thread. Which series would I like to see retired? Well, I can't honestly recommend any series for retirement, or I'd be a flaming hypocrite. Except for one thing - the Mario and Zelda series never messed up even twice in a row. What's a different series?
Sonic. But Sonic shouldn't die. Sonic just needs to improve. They need to go back to 10 years ago at what made SA and Sonic 3 great, and build from there. What Sonic is doing is sacrificing a good idea with the idea that you have to have an EPIC STORYLINE for a game to be good, and for that, I blame Final Fantasy. So they're making bad games. But the gaming community should be willing to forgive them if the next Sonic game rocks. If Sonic learns from Secret Rings and drops the "Universe ending" set of plotlines, it'll be good.
So then I'll rephrase - what's a genre that needs to innovate? Well, Zelda needs some newness (I consider it a genre), because I trust Nintendo to make solid gold of the next Zelda game (remember, after messing up PH, they won't mess up again), but they need to make it new and unique again. First Person Shooters really must distinguish themselves, otherwise they're just another pistol-shotgun-rifle-sniper-rockets drop in the ocean. RPGs need a new combat system that actually feels exciting and riveting, you know, like combat or something. And windfish needs to stop typing up essays on each thread he joins.
So, in summary,
Zelda and Mario will last forever, because they represent a genre all their own, and despite a few misses, regularly reign as the best games of their generation. Sonic can stay if it starts being good again. No series deserves to die if it redeems itself.
Good gracious people - stop being so bitter.
