Frat Made To Apologize Over Anti-Sexual Assault Banners

[Ihateregistering1]

When someone's on your side, you don't ***** at them. You go "oh goody, they're on my side". If they're not on your side ENOUGH yet, encourage them, don't make them feel like they're unwelcome! Oyy....

If they are on "your side", but do something wrong, do they get a free pass?

Who is 'they'?

Unless we're going to theorize that an entire fraternity participated in a sexual assault, the actions of one (or even a few) of them does not negate the actions of the first as a whole.

 

[busterkeatonrules]

Yeah, according to the article, it's because the banners might trigger psychological trauma in rape victims.

Three cheers for school faculty logic.

 

[Something Amyss]

When you post from a self-professed conservative news site that editorialises within its own content, and adds context (feminists! It was feminists!), it might be time to evaluate the validity and neutrality of the complaint.

Moving on...

When someone's on your side, you don't ***** at them.

Agreed. Where we seem to disagree is whether a fraternity which harbours sexual assailants becomes "on your side" because it hangs a banner while doing so.

My belief is this constitutes a real dick move, and that someone on "my side" would be acting to eliminate sexual assault, rather than sheltering it while hanging signs.

Or, it could be, and this is ENTIRELY SPECULATION on my part, that the person who complained is a victim of sexual assault from someone at that frat, and they feel offended by the hypocrisy of the statement.

Well, no. The article in the OP indicates that this is an issue, so it's not entirely speculation.

And if you go beyond articles screaming ERMAGERD FERMERNERSTS! th picture painted ain't exactly what one would call pretty.

But yes. When you dial back the outrage, it looks like they have a point.

If the frat is being genuine with their attempts to show support for the cause, then punishing them, even just socially for showing their support, well I just don't see how that can help in any way.

If is a presupposition. You have just said that this is unfair, which to me indicates you have already judged based on said presupposition of sincerity. More to the point, this "punishment" has led to the IFC stating it will institute actual anti-assault policies. Isn't that, you know, a good thing? Better than a banner?

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, according to the article, it's because the banners might trigger psychological trauma in rape victims.

Three cheers for school faculty logic.

I'm confused. Am I supposed to be outraged that they took into consideration the feelings of rape victims?

 

[johnnyboy2537]

So why were they made to take the banners down and apologize [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435044/campus-sexual-assault-fraternity-in-trouble-for-being-anti-assault] for it?

Because these people are never satisfied even when you're groveling. It's all about power with these people. That's why they do it. The regressive left is a rather despicable bunch.

 

[happyninja42]

Well, no. The article in the OP indicates that this is an issue, so it's not entirely speculation.

And if you go beyond articles screaming ERMAGERD FERMERNERSTS! th picture painted ain't exactly what one would call pretty.

But yes. When you dial back the outrage, it looks like they have a point.

I didn't read the article. I mostly browse this site while I'm at work, and I limit my outside site surfing accordingly. Sad to hear it actually is because of that scenario.

If the frat is being genuine with their attempts to show support for the cause, then punishing them, even just socially for showing their support, well I just don't see how that can help in any way.

If is a presupposition. You have just said that this is unfair, which to me indicates you have already judged based on said presupposition of sincerity. More to the point, this "punishment" has led to the IFC stating it will institute actual anti-assault policies. Isn't that, you know, a good thing? Better than a banner?

Actually no I don't have a presupposition about the frat's motives, it's why I said "if" before listing that one example. I don't know what their motives are, but if they were genuine, then I think it's kind of a dick move to ***** at them for being on your side. A position that you seem to agree with according to your response higher up. If they are actually harboring rapists, then yeah, the banner is a dick move on their part, like the Catholic Church decrying pedophilia, while at the same time protecting rapey priests. But I stated that under the assumption that there wasn't any specific evidence that they were harboring rapists. Apparently they are, according to the article, so yeah, dick move on their part.

The fact that they implemented actual anti-assault policies as a result of this is good, but it still doesn't make the bitching at people who might've been trying to be helpful good. But it's a moot point since they apparently were part of the problem.

The only way I can see this still being a dick move towards the frat, is if all of the members who were accused of rape, are no longer members, and the frat is trying to show they do not support that behavior from their members. Given the rotating membership of a frat house, this is entirely possible. And that the other frat members weren't on board with the behavior, and are trying to show support, given their shady past. *shrugs*

I'm playing devil's advocate with most of these statements, as I find it unlikely that the entire fraternity is on board with sexual assault, and that it's most likely a handful of assholes. And that it's not unreasonable that the frat might be trying to purge their ranks, and show that in a public way. But if the members are still there, then yeah, dick move on their part.

 

[busterkeatonrules]

Yeah, according to the article, it's because the banners might trigger psychological trauma in rape victims.

Three cheers for school faculty logic.

I'm confused. Am I supposed to be outraged that they took into consideration the feelings of rape victims?

I can see how the banners might bother sexual assault victims, but nothing ever gets better if it is simply ignored - hence why 'Sexual Assault Awareness Month' is a thing in the first place.

Removing the banners is one thing, but the fraternity was also made to apologize for trying to show their support. That level of stupidity is simply off the charts. By doing this, the faculty has actively taken steps to ensure that the subject of sexual assault is shoved under the rug and ignored.

Now, what do you think a sexual assault victim might make of that?

 

[Thaluikhain]

When someone's on your side, you don't ***** at them. You go "oh goody, they're on my side". If they're not on your side ENOUGH yet, encourage them, don't make them feel like they're unwelcome! Oyy....

If they are on "your side", but do something wrong, do they get a free pass?

Who is 'they'?

Unless we're going to theorize that an entire fraternity participated in a sexual assault, the actions of one (or even a few) of them does not negate the actions of the first as a whole.

"Not that I'm saying this was something wrong, no idea about the particulars of this."

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Inserting. I was expecting it to be a misleading thread title where it turned out the frat was doing something like victim blaming or something, but no they aren't doing that. They aren't doing much and that seems to be the issue people found.

While I certainly do agree that hanging a banner doesn't do much in terms of fighting against sexual assaults on campus, it at least shows that the frat supports the cause. My question is why were they made to apologize for supporting the cause and participating in Sexual Assault Awareness Month by hanging the banners?

We can consider a few things here. Like did anyone on campus know it was Sexual Assualt Month or whatever it's called?

Was the campus even participating in it as a whole?

In all seriousness how many of us even knew it got a whole month? It's like every other month every thing has month. Breast Cancer, Prostate Cancer, Black History month... National Novel Writing Month, those are only a few I KNOW about. I'm still not even fully sure how anything gets declared to have it's own month officially. Do people just like go on Twitter and start a hashtag?

So I'm a dean, I'm not aware of this, I see this... look it's not even a banner, it looks like a fucking bed sheet they bought at walmart and spray painted on, yeah I'm going to have them take it down probably with that bullshit reason too. Ya know why? Cause right now I'm familiar in how college campuses run things and it's just a string of everyone complaining about nonsense. Faculty complaining that vistors are parking in their spot, even though it's the registrars fault for handing out to many handicap tags all willy-nilly. Or the doors were opened too early.

Again If I'm the dean, I see a Frat doing this shit, I'm just assuming their being assholes and pulling the sign just to make my life easier heading off problems before they start.

That's what I'm betting went on here. Probably has nothing to do PC culture bullshit or whatever the fuck, it's the quality of the banner that was hung and a Dean whos like "I got enough shit going on" and he's just making them apologize so they think twice before hanging any other tacky shit up on the campus.

I mean it's either that or blah blah culture war, Cthulhu vs Moloch blah blah doom blah blah even death may die blah blah pick a side blah blah I'm sick of thinking about this shit really. They're all just terrible.

 

[Fox12]

Good, those SJW got what they deserved.

In all seriousness, the dude probably has it right. I've done the whole residence life thing before, and there are a million reasons why this could have happened. Banners got removed on my campus all the time, and it was usually because the people responsible didn't fill out the paperwork. Believe it or not, most schools have regulations for things like that. I'm guessing someone screwed the pooch. Fill out your forms kids.

 

[Something Amyss]

Actually no I don't have a presupposition about the frat's motives, it's why I said "if" before listing that one example.

Yes, but the other thing you said before that was that it was unfair. No conditional or anything, just that it was unfair.

I can see how the banners might bother sexual assault victims, but nothing ever gets better if it is simply ignored - hence why 'Sexual Assault Awareness Month' is a thing in the first place.

The complaints weren't about sexual assault awareness month, they were about frat houses that are accused of sheltering rapists being complete and utter dicks by hanging up banners in "support" at the same time. Granted, this is me editorialising, but still less than the article.

Removing the banners is one thing, but the fraternity was also made to apologize for trying to show their support.

Well, trying to show support while harbouring alleged rapists. That last part's kind of important, and why it might be a problem for the victims of rape. Especially if they're in that house. You left that part out when you called it stupid.

By doing this, the faculty has actively taken steps to ensure that the subject of sexual assault is shoved under the rug and ignored.

No they have not. In fact, the IFC announced an actual plan to deal with sexual assault, so they've done the opposite. So sayeth the article:

The IFC also announced that it would implement a four-year anti-sexual-assault program.

How is this sweeping it under the rug?

Now, what do you think a sexual assault victim might make of that?

This one thinks that a dick move has been corrected for and a positive step has been taken. She does not think it's stupid to think that maybe we should afford some level of understanding to the victims of sexual assault/rape, given she knows how traumatic it can be. And how traumatic the aftermath can be. And how it can make you sick decades later when you try and even talk about the subject, but feel compelled to speak up because you don't want it to happen to other people. She also knows how it feels to watch as people who sheltered a rapist said they supported her.

She thinks what the frat originally did was not helpful, especially given the picture painted of the campus is not a positive one. She thinks the end result is a significant improvement. At least, contingent on the IFC following through with their stated plans. She thinks there is a problem that needs addressing, and they've gone from lip service to actually taking action and hopes they follow through.

Now, I do not pretend to speak for all victims of rape and sexual assault, but speaking on a personal level, I really don't appreciate the actual story being swept under the rug in the name of claiming that sexual assault victims are somehow harmed by this or it's an active blow against us. When someone, for example, sweeps under the rug the statement by the IFC that they would take positive steps in order to claim sexual assault was being affirmatively ignored, I think they maybe shouldn't do it in the name of concern for me and people like me. It does us a disservice to trash people for taking actions to hide sexual assault when they have announced the opposite.

If you are honestly concerned for the wellbeing of the current sexual assault victims on campus, and the ones going forward, you might want to keep these things in mind. and not reframe the story.

(edited to remove superfluous quote tag that semi broke things)

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

That's really unfortunate. I'm pretty ardently in favor of social justice and I'm usually pretty quick to judge the culture of frat houses, but this isn't a good way to go about it. Hasn't changing frat culture from rape culture to social consciousness been one of the main goals in all this? Getting justice for individual victims is incredibly important, but it seems like bringing about a cultural shift where there are less victims is an even bigger win. Although, if this is the case...

Again If I'm the dean, I see a Frat doing this shit, I'm just assuming their being assholes and pulling the sign just to make my life easier heading off problems before they start.

That's what I'm betting went on here. Probably has nothing to do PC culture bullshit or whatever the fuck, it's the quality of the banner that was hung and a Dean whos like "I got enough shit going on" and he's just making them apologize so they think twice before hanging any other tacky shit up on the campus.

It at least makes more sense.

 

[happyninja42]

Actually no I don't have a presupposition about the frat's motives, it's why I said "if" before listing that one example.

Yes, but the other thing you said before that was that it was unfair. No conditional or anything, just that it was unfair.

Are you referring to this bit in bold?

----Personally, I think it's unfair, and contrary to the point of the month. If the frat is being genuine with their attempts to show support for the cause, then punishing them, even just socially for showing their support, well I just don't see how that can help in any way.----

If so, then my apologies, that was structured poorly. I was stating my view before the premise. Basically, switch those two sentences around and it's what I think. What I meant to say was basically "If they were being genuine, then personally I think it's unfair, and contrary to the point of the month."

But again, that's irrelevant, because apparently they were/are harboring suspected rapists, which negates that stance, and instead makes the other points I made the valid ones. That it is a dick move to do that, considering the circumstances.

 

[busterkeatonrules]

The complaints weren't about sexual assault awareness month, they were about frat houses that are accused of sheltering rapists being complete and utter dicks by hanging up banners in "support" at the same time. Granted, this is me editorialising, but still less than the article.

Right. There is no mention of this in the article, aside from a quick (and seemingly unrelated) note on what is considered stereotypical frat behavior. The article focuses on a frat house trying to contribute to a good and necessary cause - and being told off for it.

Now, what good is a four-year anti-sexual-assault program if it gets kicked off in this manner? Remember, every form of positive change starts with increased public awareness of the issue in question!

However: You do seem to know more about the matter than can be gleaned from the article, and if what you're saying is true, then I will readily concede that this was indeed the right thing for the faculty to do.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Ok, I see nothing in the article that says they were made to take down the banners and apologize, what I see is that they did take down the banners and apologize. The article attributes this to offense taken by feminists and complaints by said feminists, but they offer zero actual proof, only citing general sentiments by "students" that the banners were in poor taste. "Students", not some feminist student group, not even female students, just students. Because, apparently, anyone who says anything about women's issues that the author does not like is a feminist. So can we stop pretending that this is a case of femnazis going mad with power?

And you know what? Whoever these random students are, they have a point. The banners are in pretty poor taste. They chose to show their solidarity with that? I mean, come on. They look terrible, they obviously didn't put any time, money, or thought into them. I mean, they couldn't have a go around the frat and collect pocket change from everyone to get a real banner? They couldn't find a single graphic design student to put in 5 minutes work to make it not look like shit?

The article says that some students complained that putting up the banners was not enough so it was offensive. That actually makes sense if consider context. This does not look like a genuine effort to reduce sexual assault. It looks like blame deflection. "Oh yeah, we are totally against sexual assault. Didn't you see our shitty banner?"

These people should have known better than to treat the subject so casually, especially with their already poor reputation in relation to the subject. It makes them look like hypocrites.

 

[Frankster]

Article is a bit dry on details so hard to draw any conclusions, though it's interesting the amount of fanfics people have come up with in this thread alone, ranging from "it must have reminded some girl of her own sexual assault!" to outright saying that the frat was actually involved in sexual assault previously and was one of their victims who bought them low. With the caveat that this is their hypothesis of course, but yeh sure let's all throw around random BS stories

Maybe this article is like a Rorschach test, you truly see in it what you want to see.

And you know what? Whoever these random students are, they have a point. The banners are in pretty poor taste. They chose to show their solidarity with that? I mean, come on. They look terrible, they obviously didn't put any time, money, or thought into them. I mean, they couldn't have a go around the frat and collect pocket change from everyone to get a real banner? They couldn't find a single graphic design student to put in 5 minutes work to make it not look like shit?

(...)
These people should have known better than to treat the subject so casually, especially with their already poor reputation in relation to the subject. It makes them look like hypocrites.

Hahahahaha... Yeah those scum! Their banners were fucking ugly! How dare they not splurge out and make a nice fancy banner as paid for by mutual collection and designed by an art student, what a bunch of fakers, obviously trying to pathetically cover up for their past misdeeds! Dunno about you but students being lazy and doing the bare minimum wasn't unusual in my uni experience, no real malice involved.

Poor kids, hanged up a banner and now they assumed to be repenting for their past sins if the attitude here is any representation. For all we know this is a frat of super neckbeards who never party or go out and never talk to the opposite sex xD I mean, since we are all throwing around fanfics....

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

http://dailynorthwestern.com/2016/05/02/campus/following-banner-controversy-interfraternity-council-plans-to-implement-four-year-sexual-assault-education-program/

It appears that at least some of those who did the complaining did so under the belief (justified or not) that sexual assaults had occurred in that frat, and also under the impression that the frat was treating this as all they needed to do to show they had become an enlightened anti-sexual assault frat. Without further evidence for or against those accusations I don't know whether I can agree with those who complained, but assuming their accusations are true, I'd say I agree with their complaints.

 

[Naldan]

Snip

You're talking like it was said that this fraternity allegedly houses rapists. Where do you get this from?

And are there rape victims on that campus?

edit: If this what Revnak posted is true, I could understand that. In that article of the OP is another incident from 2014 mentioned, though. But this would get off topic, I guess.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

And are there rape victims on that campus?

It would be a statistical unicorn of a campus if there weren't, not specifically because it is a college campus, but because it is a grouping of thousands of human beings. Even assuming only one in a thousand people are raped by the time they reach college age (a dramatically low estimate) you'd be talking about a near literal one in a million chance for there not to be a rape victim on that campus. Only near literal because it would be closer to one in ten million.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hahahahaha... Yeah those scum! Their banners were fucking ugly! How dare they not splurge out and make a nice fancy banner as paid for by mutual collection and designed by an art student, what a bunch of fakers, obviously trying to pathetically cover up for their past misdeeds! Dunno about you but students being lazy and doing the bare minimum wasn't unusual in my uni experience, no real malice involved.

Poor kids, hanged up a banner and now they assumed to be repenting for their past sins if the attitude here is any representation. For all we know this is a frat of super neckbeards who never party or go out and never talk to the opposite sex xD I mean, since we are all throwing around fanfics....

Sure. Of course, for all we know, the complaints weren't made by feminist students either. Like you said, the article is a bit dry on details. Maybe wait on the pitchforks?