Freedom of speech and Internet

[SinisterGehe]

Lately I been seeing a great deal of people crying about their freedom of speech being limited on private channels. People who cry that their Topic got locked or their post deleted, and then yelling about moderators limiting their freedom of speech.

To clear my status and view on this subject. This is my opinion, not a truth!

Freedom of speech...
Freedom of speech, ensure a being a right to voice hes idea. By idea I mean something like this, "I think foods with onions in them are bad". That is an idea, I have right to express it in a way I choose. I can say (Example): "Foods with onions are shit and anyone who likes them is an idiot" or I can say "I dislike foods that have onions in them. *Reason* *Reason*, what do you think about food with onions in them?" Which is more sensible?
I have right to voice my opinion about some subject, let say: "I think Metallica is bad music and the musician are not talented". I can go to their channel (forum) and say this in a way I choose. Note: I have right to express my idea, but I do not have a right to insult anyone. I also must carry responsibility over my words.

Forums
On Internet there are several private forums that are open to the public. If I decided to create an account on some specific forum, example The escapist forum. Thereby I agree to obey the specific rules that are set on this specific channel. I am entitled to Freedom of Speech, but it is limited by the contract I have made with the forum moderator that I have signed by creating an account on these forums. If there is a rule that example: Bans discussion about onions. If I go and create a topic that discuss about onions and I get banned after that, No one was suppressing my Freedom of Speech, I was breaking the contract that I made with the Forums Administrators and I got punished accordingly.

What I am trying to say here is that people must start to realize few points.
-You must carry responsibility over what you say and how you say it.
-You have right to express your ideas in format you choose.
-You do not have right to insult or embarrass anyone.
-By using a certain channel that has set rules of which you have agreed to obey by using, you have limited your freedom of speech accordingly to these rules... If you break these rules, you must bare the consequence of your actions.

I know that there are amins of some private channels that abuse their powers, but then the admin is breaking the rules and not you. But you are still the person under them and you must obey their decisions unless it get overruled by someone higher than that particular admin.

I am sorry about the language, I am not native to English so there is no need to comment anything about it.

If you have nothing to say about this topic, please do not post at all.


Respect everyone, even if you do not accept or agree with them.
We are all equal, but no one is equal. We are all one and many. We are just as important and unimportant as anyone

 

[SomeLameStuff]

Agreed.

I think what people need to realise is that Freedom of Speech is not really totally free at all. We're always being restricted by something, morals, political correctness, or that guy with a big stick who will come over and beat the crap out of you if you say something wrong.

 

[BonsaiK]

I generally agree.

I don't really believe in "freedom of speech" anyway, I don't live in a country where that is an idea protected by law, and I'm very glad about that.

 

[Jimbo Brawl]

Another thing people don't realize is "Freedom of Speech" only exists within America, yet the internet is NOT America.

Also, even if it were America, Freedom of Speech ONLY prevents the government from censoring your ideas. Individuals have every right to censor whatever they damn well please, and they have every right to ban you from their personal forums for anything and everything you may say.

 

[Regiment]

Also, even if it were America, Freedom of Speech ONLY prevents the government from censoring your ideas. Individuals have every right to censor whatever they damn well please, and they have every right to ban you from their personal forums for anything and everything you may say.

Exactly. It drives me crazy when people basically say "I can say anything I want because of freedom of speech". The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". It doesn't say that a company, school, or indeed forum can't limit what you can say, and it's within those groups' rights to impose rules (see also: slander and libel). And even if you can technically and legally say things, it doesn't mean that you necessarily should (telling a boxer that his mother's a whore, even if it's true, is not a good idea for several reasons).

 

[b3nn3tt]

I agree, freedom of speech is not an excuse for acting like a dick on a forum. Yes, you have every right to voice your opinion, but there is absolutely no reason to do it in a way designed to offend or insult others

Freedom of speech is not a right, it is an idea that is all too often used as an excuse for saying things that are unnecessary and/or offensive. I absolutely believe that everyone has the right to their opinion, but I also believe that you should be able to have a reasoned discussion regarding it, and be tolerant of the opinions of others

 

[Jordi]

Another thing people don't realize is "Freedom of Speech" only exists within America, yet the internet is NOT America.

Are you fucking kidding me? America is the only country in the world that has freedom of speech? Riiiight...

I also don't agree with the idea that there is no such thing as "freedom of speech". The fact that it is usually limited in practice by other principles (safety, privacy, etc.) does not mean that it cannot exist as an idea.

I personally think that speech should be free enough that it allows you to insult people. People who feel insulted when someone calls the fairy tales they believe in "fairy tales" should just learn to live with it.

I do agree that freedom of speech doesn't necessarily apply in private settings.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I personally think that speech should be free enough that it allows you to insult people. People who feel insulted when someone calls the fairy tales they believe in "fairy tales" should just learn to live with it.

See, I disagree. I think that it is perfectly possible to have a discussion with someone about their beliefs without having to resort to insult them and calling their beliefs stupid. For example, I might believe in Santa, and you might consider that stupid. I would prefer to have a discussion about the possible arguments for and against the existence of Santa than for you to simply dismiss my belief as stupid

 

[Gigano]

Yes, "Freedom of Speech" indeed refers to freedom from government limitations/sanctions, not to freedom from private limitations or freedom from other consequences.

In that limited sense, it should be all but absolute, stopping only at direct incitement to violence (as that's attempted accessory to illegal actions, and actions are outside its scope).

 

[Sovvolf]

Could some one please sticky this thread. I think a good amount of forum members could do with reading it.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I would prefer to have a discussion about the possible arguments for and against the existence of Santa than for you to simply dismiss my belief as stupid

Otherwise known as 'my beliefs trump your beliefs because they are mine'.

Otherwise known as '99% of conversation where people don't have to look at the other people'.

Ooh, thread idea!

See, I disagree. I like to think that I'm fairly open-minded, and as such I will pay attention to any counter-arguments you throw my way. You may not change my mind on the topic of debate, but I will certainly consider what you say. Although, granted, a lot of 'debates' that rage on the internet don't actually follow that formula. I think it all comes down to the individual, and whether they actually want a debate or whether they just want to try and bully people into agreeing with them

 

[b3nn3tt]

See, I disagree. I like to think that I'm fairly open-minded, and as such I will pay attention to any counter-arguments you throw my way. You may not change my mind on the topic of debate, but I will certainly consider what you say. Although, granted, a lot of 'debates' that rage on the internet don't actually follow that formula. I think it all comes down to the individual, and whether they actually want a debate or whether they just want to try and bully people into agreeing with them

Well 99% was a bit high but the point of my comment was to say that you're facing that attitude, not that you held it.

Ahhhh, I misunderstood you.

In that case, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is horribly rare to find people who genuinely want to discuss their views, rather than state them and then complain when people disagree

Which then ties back in with freedom of speech, and whether or not people have it. Further, should people actually have freedom of speech? Personally, given the wealth of evidence, I would say that most people don't deserve to be able to say what they like on the internet. Therefore it becomes the job of moderators to keep people in check when they abuse their 'right' to freedom of speech

 

[Random Fella]

Ahhh the silly laws of america eh?
Like the idea that everyone should own guns... Because that helps the community right?

 

[UberNoodle]

Basically, nowadays, so many people have lost the ability to construct solid arguments. Instead, they just talk at people and show no interest at actual discussion or gaining further understanding. There is an attitude now, and it's a very stupid one, that one's opinions today are unchangeable and have no reason to ever change. This is the primary reason that we almost never see on forums today sentences like, "Oh, I never thought of that approach to the issue. That really changes it all for me".

We also almost never see people entering a discussion to support or further another person's remarks. Often, when this happens, the other person assumes that there has been an "attack" of some kind. And that leads to the other major obstacle against discussion today - people seem to think that counter points are attacks. Perhaps they think so because they are stubborn and arrogant enough to believe that they already "know everything", and of course, far too many people seem incapable of disagreeing in constructive and friendly ways.

Basically, "freedoms" today appear to be taken in the most selfish of manners, at least in Western culture. People don't give two sh!ts about other people when they exercise their own rights, and then they get upset when somebody calls them on it. Freedom is something that should be used wisely and with empathy for others.

 

[Jordi]

I personally think that speech should be free enough that it allows you to insult people. People who feel insulted when someone calls the fairy tales they believe in "fairy tales" should just learn to live with it.

See, I disagree. I think that it is perfectly possible to have a discussion with someone about their beliefs without having to resort to insult them and calling their beliefs stupid. For example, I might believe in Santa, and you might consider that stupid. I would prefer to have a discussion about the possible arguments for and against the existence of Santa than for you to simply dismiss my belief as stupid

Of course it would be more polite to try and not be insulting. But I don't think that it should be illegal to insult your belief in Santa. Another thing that further complicates the outlawing of insulting speech, is that who is to decide what is insulting. Perhaps I am trying to create awareness about childhood obesity and saying that Santa is a bad role model because he is so obscenely fat. I'm sure some Santa-believers (and possibly fat people) could take offense to that statement.
And what if I have beliefs that are inherently insulting to your beliefs? Am I not allowed to speak about mine, and try to convince people of how right they are? Is your belief in Santa/God somehow more important than my belief that people who believe in Santa/God are stupid? Maybe I believe in a god I just made up that has actually written that down as the One Commandment on the Holy Post-it of Heaven.

Anyway, I didn't really want to make this about religion (although it very often is). The point is that people can believe and be insulted by just about anything.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I personally think that speech should be free enough that it allows you to insult people. People who feel insulted when someone calls the fairy tales they believe in "fairy tales" should just learn to live with it.

See, I disagree. I think that it is perfectly possible to have a discussion with someone about their beliefs without having to resort to insult them and calling their beliefs stupid. For example, I might believe in Santa, and you might consider that stupid. I would prefer to have a discussion about the possible arguments for and against the existence of Santa than for you to simply dismiss my belief as stupid

Of course it would be more polite to try and not be insulting. But I don't think that it should be illegal to insult your belief in Santa. Another thing that further complicates the outlawing of insulting speech, is that who is to decide what is insulting. Perhaps I am trying to create awareness about childhood obesity and saying that Santa is a bad role model because he is so obscenely fat. I'm sure some Santa-believers (and possibly fat people) could take offense to that statement.

I'm not saying that it should be illegal to insult people's beliefs or opinions, I'm just saying that it isn't a very mature way of going about things. Obviously it is pretty much impossible to devise a law regarding what constitutes an insult or not

What I am saying is that I don't think that the best way of voicing your opinion is to insult the opinion of others. By all means, try to talk others round to your way of thinking, but there are better ways than by simply insulting what they think. For my part, I would offer arguments that I believe support my view, whether or not people want to change their opinions based on what I tell them is beside the point

 

[SinisterGehe]

Seems like I poke a sensitive part here, people seems to have "warmed up" a bit, regarding the discussion. At least there still, mostly civil tone going on.