Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)
- Thread starter barbzilla
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I actually have dated my friend and we are still friends even though we broke up. Sometimes things like that happen.
And well you are something special for the girl because you are (not necessarily the crying shoulder but) the one who she can talk to. You are her FRIEND. And if she doesn't want to date you, then it may be because you just not her type or she doesn't have that kind of feelings towards you. It can be very shitty if you have a crush on her but really what can you do? You can't force relationship. Also if a friend of mine said that she would like to date me, I may might say the "I don't want to risk our friendship" line because that is exactly what I mean. Break ups can be really fucking messy(yeah I know I'm captain obvious) and you actually might lose a good friend. So yeah this a really complicated thing.
And well you are something special for the girl because you are (not necessarily the crying shoulder but) the one who she can talk to. You are her FRIEND. And if she doesn't want to date you, then it may be because you just not her type or she doesn't have that kind of feelings towards you. It can be very shitty if you have a crush on her but really what can you do? You can't force relationship. Also if a friend of mine said that she would like to date me, I may might say the "I don't want to risk our friendship" line because that is exactly what I mean. Break ups can be really fucking messy(yeah I know I'm captain obvious) and you actually might lose a good friend. So yeah this a really complicated thing.
Haven't read all 6 pages so I may be re-hashing what others have already said, but then again I'm sure this topic has been done to death before so what the hell..
I used to moan about the friend zone idea when I was younger, but looking at it now I can see why I wasn't that appealing to most women I interacted with.
Step out of your shoes for a minute and look at it from her perspective: if you have a friend who is always there for you, always lends an ear when you need to rant, and who you enjoy spending time with, why would you then risk losing that for a relationship that quite likely won't last? Would it not be better to keep that person as a friend?
All that is before we even get to the small matter of the woman, quite possibly, actually NOT being attracted to you. 9 times out of 10, that spark, that attraction is either there early on or not at all. Being a good friend to someone does not mean that they somehow owe you a relationship (and sex) as a result!
Finally, a woman complaining to a guy who has been a good friend, about the other guys she dates is NOT an example of 'using' a bloke. Using you would be hooking up with you to help herself get over bad relationships.
I wish people who moan about the 'friend zone' would just look in the mirror once in a while and ask themselves "why am I making an effort to be friends with this girl?"
*Taking a completed side-step, try having your girlfriend of 3 and half years say "we're basically just friends now anyway, and we can carry on meeting up as before", as a way to end said relationship. Talk about a kick in the b*llocks*
I used to moan about the friend zone idea when I was younger, but looking at it now I can see why I wasn't that appealing to most women I interacted with.
Step out of your shoes for a minute and look at it from her perspective: if you have a friend who is always there for you, always lends an ear when you need to rant, and who you enjoy spending time with, why would you then risk losing that for a relationship that quite likely won't last? Would it not be better to keep that person as a friend?
All that is before we even get to the small matter of the woman, quite possibly, actually NOT being attracted to you. 9 times out of 10, that spark, that attraction is either there early on or not at all. Being a good friend to someone does not mean that they somehow owe you a relationship (and sex) as a result!
Finally, a woman complaining to a guy who has been a good friend, about the other guys she dates is NOT an example of 'using' a bloke. Using you would be hooking up with you to help herself get over bad relationships.
I wish people who moan about the 'friend zone' would just look in the mirror once in a while and ask themselves "why am I making an effort to be friends with this girl?"
*Taking a completed side-step, try having your girlfriend of 3 and half years say "we're basically just friends now anyway, and we can carry on meeting up as before", as a way to end said relationship. Talk about a kick in the b*llocks*
And yet it brought me a smile of joyThanatos5150 said:Y'know, I sat through a woman, explaining, in detail, why the "Friend Zone" theory is bullshit.
Let me offer you, dear Escapist, a Venn Diagram instead. Because Charts make things easy to understand.
I apologize for the poor quality, but, well, I threw it together in paint for in a few minuets. This is actually the second draft - the first was difficult to read.
quick message for all you guys who hopelessly follow after women like sick puppies looking to gain a relationship by being there for them doing things for them and buying them stuff... IT DOESN'T WORK, women often look for a challenge in their relationships, and will not have that deep down primal spark, that chemistry, that need for you, if they see you as weak, and subservient... I used to be like that friends... I used to be that "nice" or "sweet" guy, now I do my own thing, women follow ME they buy me things, not cuz I'm needy, but because it's obvious that I DON'T need them. maybe you guys don't get what I'm saying, but if you want a woman to notice you, ignore her a little... I've had 7 women in the last 6 months, I've dumped 5 of those and am currently still with one... the first one triggered the change in me that forever improved my chances with women, and lets just say... I'm 25 now, I had maybe 3 women go out with me more than once prior to this year... so I can say with complete confidence that it's not what you look like, or how much money you have, or what you drive, or anything like that that makes a woman attracted to you, it's who and how you are around them.
when you buy alot of stuff for them or take them to fancy places early on in the relationship, or try to be perfect for her, and do everything for her, it developes a negative psychological state, in which she canot feel anything real about you and she will just use you till she finds someone who GETS IT, and know how to be a man. yes being too much of a "Gentleman" actually hurts HER AND YOU, because she will subconsciously percieve that you are trying to buy her favour, and thus think so badly of yourself that you have to do so to get anywhere with her, women don't normally like guys who think poorly about themselves...
I hope I've helped some of you guys gain a bit of hope, and get out there and practise some confidence, positive self talk, and standing tall... also work on your repertuar of responses and comedy... it helps A LOT. Also find a deoderant that smells nice, and shower daily, and brush yer teeth, keep yourself at least basically maintained, women don't like smelly unkempt guys, unless ur camping and likely have known her awhile...
Cheers, and good hunting!
when you buy alot of stuff for them or take them to fancy places early on in the relationship, or try to be perfect for her, and do everything for her, it developes a negative psychological state, in which she canot feel anything real about you and she will just use you till she finds someone who GETS IT, and know how to be a man. yes being too much of a "Gentleman" actually hurts HER AND YOU, because she will subconsciously percieve that you are trying to buy her favour, and thus think so badly of yourself that you have to do so to get anywhere with her, women don't normally like guys who think poorly about themselves...
I hope I've helped some of you guys gain a bit of hope, and get out there and practise some confidence, positive self talk, and standing tall... also work on your repertuar of responses and comedy... it helps A LOT. Also find a deoderant that smells nice, and shower daily, and brush yer teeth, keep yourself at least basically maintained, women don't like smelly unkempt guys, unless ur camping and likely have known her awhile...
Cheers, and good hunting!
First, you really confused me. We have similarly excellent taste in avatarsnomzy said:
And I also completely agree with you.
Are you my not-so-evil twin?
You know what the biggest flaw with this "Friend zone" bullshit is?
FRIENDS ARE NOT A LESSER STATUS THAN BOYFRIEND.
Well, they can be, but boyfriends can also be less important to a girl than their friends, too.
I have male friends who mean a lot to me. Now, I don't go complaining about bad boyfriends because I'm not currently interested in dating, but I do complain about the problems in my life to them. And I try to do the same if they come to me for an ear, too. Because that's what friends do. I would do the same for my female friends.
I fail to understand how getting social permission to serial fuck someone makes them somehow more valuable. And when the boyfriend leaves, friends are there to be loved, hopefully for the rest of one's life. I know that I will always love my sister more than any relationship in my life that I make for myself, even the hypothetical future husband, but I Sure as Hell am never going to have sexytime with her. That alone should be proof enough that love for someone resembling a sibling's is incredibly valuable to me.
The notion that, all the sudden, our platonic relationship is nothing to my male friend but my building credit in their mind, and that I am obligated to turn into what they want me to be because of it just sounds so terribly selfish on their part.
A woman isn't stealing a man's happiness by not being with him. His happiness is his own problem.
I know some people have had a crush on me before, and I can't help how they feel. I hate that it makes them feel bad that I don't date them, but I can't change myself to suit how they feel.
I can just try to be a good friend, and hope that we can talk things through. Emotions complicate things, but it is cruel to expect me to live up to how you feel, rather than the facts of the matter.
Everyone who complains about the "Friend zone," have you ever just tried to talk with the person you like?
Just inform the person of how you feel. If they aren't interested in dating you, then try to talk with them about what you feel, and in what ways it may complicate your platonic relationship. If the woman in question is a mature friend and you are trying your hardest to be level-headed, then I'm sure you can figure something out that makes you feel better.
Try to make the whole affair, "You and your friend together versus the emotions that are messing with your friendship" rather than, "You and your emotions versus the woman who is making you feel terrible."
Communication is the key to a good friendship. And if you don't value your friendship to her, why the Hell should she ever consider dating you?
FRIENDS ARE NOT A LESSER STATUS THAN BOYFRIEND.
Well, they can be, but boyfriends can also be less important to a girl than their friends, too.
I have male friends who mean a lot to me. Now, I don't go complaining about bad boyfriends because I'm not currently interested in dating, but I do complain about the problems in my life to them. And I try to do the same if they come to me for an ear, too. Because that's what friends do. I would do the same for my female friends.
I fail to understand how getting social permission to serial fuck someone makes them somehow more valuable. And when the boyfriend leaves, friends are there to be loved, hopefully for the rest of one's life. I know that I will always love my sister more than any relationship in my life that I make for myself, even the hypothetical future husband, but I Sure as Hell am never going to have sexytime with her. That alone should be proof enough that love for someone resembling a sibling's is incredibly valuable to me.
The notion that, all the sudden, our platonic relationship is nothing to my male friend but my building credit in their mind, and that I am obligated to turn into what they want me to be because of it just sounds so terribly selfish on their part.
A woman isn't stealing a man's happiness by not being with him. His happiness is his own problem.
I know some people have had a crush on me before, and I can't help how they feel. I hate that it makes them feel bad that I don't date them, but I can't change myself to suit how they feel.
I can just try to be a good friend, and hope that we can talk things through. Emotions complicate things, but it is cruel to expect me to live up to how you feel, rather than the facts of the matter.
Everyone who complains about the "Friend zone," have you ever just tried to talk with the person you like?
Just inform the person of how you feel. If they aren't interested in dating you, then try to talk with them about what you feel, and in what ways it may complicate your platonic relationship. If the woman in question is a mature friend and you are trying your hardest to be level-headed, then I'm sure you can figure something out that makes you feel better.
Try to make the whole affair, "You and your friend together versus the emotions that are messing with your friendship" rather than, "You and your emotions versus the woman who is making you feel terrible."
Communication is the key to a good friendship. And if you don't value your friendship to her, why the Hell should she ever consider dating you?
There's a girl I know who I've liked for a while and I'm in the Friend Zone. The only outcome I can think of when I consider taking a chance and asking her out is that everything would be the same but we would have sex too. I don't know what it is but that doesn't seem like a radical improvement to me.
I was about to say more or less the same thing. On the male side and having been FZed a few times, you really have to look at yourself and say "Maybe I'm making myself the victim here, when really I might be the issue." If you act like her brother, she's gonna treat you like she's your brother. I agree, sometimes it is the girls fault. In one case asked the girl on a date to the movies, but she had to leave really early. (Whether or not she was ditching me I had no idea of knowing.) So we talked and we decided we would try some other time. We eventually decide and the day we're going to go, I text her what time she wanted to meet up. She answered back "Well, I probably won't get to see you a whole lot, I'm bringing a date." It being my first dating attempt I'll admit I was really crushed. Later I made friends with a guy who dated a girl who hung out with her. He told me that she always talked about me and how she didn't want to date me but she didn't want to let me down.Lunar Shadow said:
Yeah. Needless to say I told her that if she didn't like me like that, then she should have just told me, and not spat it in my face.
Oh the horrible friend zone and the horrible horrible women who put us there! Is there no end to their selfish manipulative backhanded attempts to lend us their trust and respect?
Here's the bottom line guys. You can't plan to not be all the places you don't want to go. No one planning a road trip decides on all the places they don't want to visit. No missile guidance system marks all the non-targets it doesn't want to hit. No one going to college first considers all the degree programs they don't want to study, and just as in those cases, no one ends up with a girlfriend by considering all the things they don't want from her.
By complaining about things you and getting and don't want, you make it naked and obvious that you have never considered, and therefore made plans and taken action to get what you do want. What is it you want from women, really? And what sort of woman is it who is most likely to give these things to you? If you knew the answers to these questions, you wouldn't be sitting here complaining about your 'condition'; you'd be out there in the field making plans, taking action, trying, failing, correcting for mistakes and getting results.
Oh, and isn't it just grand that a woman's friendship in this scenario is considered a punishment? No guy complains about how undesirable another man's friendship is, and that's because a man's friendship is worth more than a woman's is. Obviously. Next time you complain about all the manipulative bitches in your life who lock you away in the friend zone because they hate you, remind yourself of where you would be right now without the mothers, sisters, aunts, nieces, and perfect female strangers who 'punished' you with their advice, trust, wisdom and guidance when you needed it to become who you are now.
Here's the bottom line guys. You can't plan to not be all the places you don't want to go. No one planning a road trip decides on all the places they don't want to visit. No missile guidance system marks all the non-targets it doesn't want to hit. No one going to college first considers all the degree programs they don't want to study, and just as in those cases, no one ends up with a girlfriend by considering all the things they don't want from her.
By complaining about things you and getting and don't want, you make it naked and obvious that you have never considered, and therefore made plans and taken action to get what you do want. What is it you want from women, really? And what sort of woman is it who is most likely to give these things to you? If you knew the answers to these questions, you wouldn't be sitting here complaining about your 'condition'; you'd be out there in the field making plans, taking action, trying, failing, correcting for mistakes and getting results.
Oh, and isn't it just grand that a woman's friendship in this scenario is considered a punishment? No guy complains about how undesirable another man's friendship is, and that's because a man's friendship is worth more than a woman's is. Obviously. Next time you complain about all the manipulative bitches in your life who lock you away in the friend zone because they hate you, remind yourself of where you would be right now without the mothers, sisters, aunts, nieces, and perfect female strangers who 'punished' you with their advice, trust, wisdom and guidance when you needed it to become who you are now.
This^, honestly all of this just happened to me, she told me she had a dream about us hooking up, I told her i liked her, one week later i'm apologizing even though I didn't do anything wrong, she spent a lot of time talking about this guy she liked and how nice he was and how he cared about her, but I was the one up till four in the morning everyone listening to her while he wasn't even responding to her texts, I was the one who had to talk to her when she cut herself, or when she felt depressed,frankly i could plan a perfect date right now because even though she know hates me I still care about her, but apparently that doesnt matter, but this thread is great because ALL of this has happened to me multiple timesbarbzilla said:
This doesn't just happen to boys. I have had this happen before and it sucks. I have also dated friends before, i think you just have to find someone with a more open mind who is open to possibilities.
I'm sure you think you've never put someone in the FZ, but really, you probably have, and you also most likely never noticed. Not to call you out, but I have seen level-headed, otherwise-completely-sane women do this and never acknowledge it because they weren't aware they were doing it. It just happens. When women stopped being property and/or a status symbol for men, whole new avenues of possibility opened up for male/female relationships, not all of them good.
1 day? Damn. If that is an average amongst people then I suppose I'm in a bad way. I'm introverted, and shy to boot. When I meet someone for the first time, you'd be lucky to get much more than a quiet "hi" out of me, and thats if I was introduced by a mutual friend. Although, I can honestly say I've never been really attracted to anyone beyond a crush, so maybe I just haven't found the right person yet.barbzilla said:
The friend zone is really a myth, at least in the way guys tend to think of it. Becoming a friend isn't some kind of weird thing that completely prevents them from ever thinking of you romantically, that's a frankly retarded concept.
Personally, I maintain that the best way to form relationships is when they grow out of a close friendship. That is exactly how I found myself in a relationship with my fiancée.
I suspect that if a girl tells you that they 'didn't want to put your friendship at risk' or something to that effect, they're simply being polite. Becoming a close friend isn't going to stop them from getting feelings for you (if anything, quite the opposite), but people have certain things they look for and when they say no that's why, it has precisely nothing to do with being a friend.
Personally, I maintain that the best way to form relationships is when they grow out of a close friendship. That is exactly how I found myself in a relationship with my fiancée.
I suspect that if a girl tells you that they 'didn't want to put your friendship at risk' or something to that effect, they're simply being polite. Becoming a close friend isn't going to stop them from getting feelings for you (if anything, quite the opposite), but people have certain things they look for and when they say no that's why, it has precisely nothing to do with being a friend.