Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)

[Slayer_2]

The friend zone will always exist, I think it's because women like having a guy to tell all there issues to without having to commit to a relationship. Who knows, people are confusing.

 

[derelict]

Usually if I put a guy there it means I respect him more and don't want to destroy a good friendship.

This is absolutely UN-true. If ya think they'll somehow be less tolerant that you constantly whine about your problems that they wouldn't likely do with men that they likely aren't when you're with them...well, lemme borrow those blinders you're wearing so I can watch the eclipse.

wait....what? was that suppose to make any sense?

That was kind of hard to get through. What I should say is, they have a desire to be in a relationship despite constantly being shot down, and they're okay and keep coming back for more. I don't suspect that moving it up to the next level would cause them to suddenly have a 180 in that friendly, passive mindset. I suppose if they did, it'd be more an issue with their own personal idealization of you, rather than any fault of your own.

 

[barbzilla]

Speaking briefly from the female perspective: I've never used the FZ on a guy. Ever. It's a terrible excuse if you're lying, even worse if you're not, and in my opinion, a result of some very unhealthy female mindsets.

I hear it most often from my friends who have unreasonable expectations of men.

They want to fall in love with a guy they never really have to get to know. Friends are people we know and accept for being a fellow human being. I know far too many girls who date men without ever really acknowledging commonality. They want someone to take care of them, love them, be the man of their dreams, but they don't want to have to worry about being a sane, reasonable, loving woman in return. A friend could call them on their bullshit, and has a right to. A boyfriend is there for their self-esteem boost and vending machine of happy brain chemicals.

It's ridiculous, and I regularly fillet friends who display such attitudes. Then again, I'm the super pragmatic dater. I only date if I see long-term partner potential and compatibility. I don't let emotions lead the way, and I'm up-front about that, so I've never had to resort to any excuses but the truth.

Well let me say the world could use more people like you.

To everyone who is saying just take it like a man or friends are good to have too, I agree with you. The point of my post was not to say "Oh woe is me, I shall never date the one I love" I am just pointing out some of the inconsistencies I notice about the FZ.

And the number one way to escape the FZ, be friends with her (not the way you are now) The kind of friend who calls her on her shit but is there for her. Also date around, don't stop dating and hope/pray that she will suddenly come to her senses. It isn't healthy. It makes you seem obsessive and doesn't help you to get past your emotions. If the only reason you are her friend is because you like her romantically, then move on. You are not being fair to her or yourself.

 

[Tizzmarelda]

It's annoying, true, but I realise now "friend" is the only position I can ever gain, hell, I'm lucky for just that. I'm an abomination, disgusting, insane, barely qualifiable as human. The only purpose I may serve is as that problem dump. I reject that, then I truly am of no use to anyone.

So I understand. People like to talk about their s*** to me for some reason, but they would never want to look at me, not for too long, and definately not everyday.

When people come upto you with there shit and expect you to listen, you brew them a nice hot cup of STFU, go find that gal you like an ask her out. and if she says no? who cares, she wasnt good enough for you anyways. Get out there! and kick some relationship ass!

 

[barbzilla]

SNIP

First off let me say impressive response. I actually agree with just about everything you said. I am not going to come on here and tell you I really love this girl though. I am in a relationship with someone who is quite fun so it isn't an issue with me not making moves. This topic was literally in response to a number of posts I have been seeing lately on relationship issues. And one of the major ones I have had to hear about from female friends is the looking for a guy like X guy who is also their friend.

I have been in the FZ many times, but I usually take that as my que to either man up and stand up or if I don't think it is worth the full effort then I make a new friend. This is part of the reason I have so many female friends now. I don't carelessly toss people aside because they said no way when I asked them out. These are the people I turn to when I want relationship advice.

I'm sorry to see my post rubbing you the wrong way. I was not trying to say this is what happens every time. I am referring to a specific scenario where the opportunity is there, but someone isn't taking it.

 

[barbzilla]

All I'm saying is the whole "I don't wanna date you because it will ruin the friendship" is crap because odds are good that same girl will turn around and complain about her boyfriend to you(Happened to me after one of my ex's dumped me, although she lied about why she dumped me and when I found out I cut her loose). Most guys need to learn that they are not bloody doormats, I mean I sure as hell don't put up with it. I don't understand why guys think they will "come around", they should ask and if no they should just stop. But for someone to respond "I don't wanna ruin the friendship" and think they will still be cool is crap and should stop with the pretense.

Pretty much the point I was going for. I don't think that it is the crush's fault. I even point out in the OP that sometimes the other person just isn't interested in you that way. I then go on to say that your own feelings are valuable as well and you should make them known.

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

My fiance is just one of those rare occurrences. He is the only guy I know that went from FZ to being engaged. He was there for me when i was stuck with, and later after we separated, my current best friend.
He was interested in me, and I kept saying no, cause I knew other girls were interested in him and I just didn't feel like competing for affections. But he's stubborn. He convinced me that I didn't have to block him off for fear of ruining our friendship, that he was logical, so I had nothing to lose. So I figured, hell, I will try to date him. Its still gonna end the same way it always has.

And he has proved me wrong so far. I don't even expect the worst to happen.

Not saying that you guys should consider this an actual possibility for a FZ. Nine times out of ten, it won't work. So, don't get your hopes up, but its an extremely rare possibility.

 

[Sordak]

escaping the friend zone is impossible.

so is understanding women.

so is it for women to accept the sexual superiority of people who post in this forum...

oh wait.


just get over it. Try to avoid the friend zone and if you cant well think about what got you there in the first place, dont do it next time.

 

[SirDoom]

Dear guys who complain about the friendzone- quit complaining. I'd gladly take the friend zone option if it came up.

Why? Most of the time, if you are friend zoned, that means the girl doesn't like you in that way. You may not get the girl in question, but it's one hell of a lot better than getting the girl and having a terrible relationship with her.

I'm one of those nice guys, and I've never been turned down when asking someone out. I should have been, though. Just as a quick example, let's look at my last relationship. It was toward the end of spring semester, and I'd been flirting with a girl in class for a while. I asked her out, she said yes, and we talked a lot those first few weeks. Then class ended, and summer break began. Things instantly went from "talk in class, go on dates and hang out in the afternoons, and just generally having fun" to hell. Talking to her dropped to a once a week occurance, she cancelled almost all dates last minute, and backed away from even the smallest kiss at the end of those that weren't cancelled. Yet even though all traces of a relationship had vanished, she still acted like everything was perfect.

I would call her out on this (albeit not in a "fix the problem or we're breaking up" way), and we'd communicate a bit more frequently for a few days, but then it just went back to "just friends" levels of communication(despite my attempts to call often). This whole thing went on for way too long before I was eventually forced to friendzone her. The friendship didn't last very long afterwards though, for the very same reasons the relationship didn't work.

Either she didn't like me from the beginning and was only into the relationship at first due to the forced interaction of a classroom situation, or she had a very strange idea of what a relationship should be. In any case, if she had just said no to begin with, I'd probably have her as a friend right now, and she was a pretty cool person.

I have other similar stories, but the general point of this post is "not getting friendzoned when you should is worse than being rejected. Trust me.".

 

[Joe Biden His Time]

Here's what you do:

1. Get a girlfriend

2. Be an awesome friend to her as well as an awesome boyfriend

3. ????

4. Profit

See, it works better when you do it in reverse. So stop trying to weasel your way into a girls pants through sheer friendship.

 

[Galloglasses]

Normally I hate the escapist forums and everyone on them but seeing as this is genuine universal issue that the majority of men at least know of (if not know personally) I'll give some genuine advice.

Be a challenge. Not necessarily an asshole, a challenge.

My own success in Love (as few and far between as they were) actually did sort of come out of how I approached the issue of women and love from a young age. Simply put, I just never talked to them, I was a bit of a loner and thought alot, and assumed, after some self analysis and much self deprecating, I would never be some girl's Boyfriend and made peace with that (as much as the loneliness stung) And more often then not I did not approach the girls I had an interest in overtly outside of the odd hello or the casual conversation in the lunch hall. Naturally of course I'd say many of those of you who've been in the friend zone have had something similar to this in your experience, but I bet most of you have also went with the desperate Nice Guy approach. Here's what I did differently. While I definitely gave a shit about the girls in my friend circles problems and listened and gave advice I was not soft. I told them when they were fucking shit over, being an idiot and generally being forceful and told them they were wrong when, for all the world they were wrong. (This happened both with girls I had an interest in and those I did not) The result? I got a surprising amount of respect on the playgrounds and as I got older, the school in general. Although I would later learn I was oblivious to it, alot of girls did seem to take an interest in me but that they were nervous of me, an odd feeling I can tell you. This even happened in my first job at a factory where a Polish woman who didn't even speak English took a fancy to me, and I was obese at the time. That should tell you something about attitude and assertiveness in compliance with your nice guy mentalities.

Women like strong men, strong in character if not in physicality (although that is a highly desirable bonus) but in my own way, event he ones I was interested in I did not ask out for two reasons, the first being I still had a rather crippling self doubt behind the assertiveness and a firm belief in never being boyfriend material and two, I realised I didn't really want the women all that much. As much as I found being a challenge for women is what makes them attracted to you, I found very few (ok most of the time, none of them) were really a challenge for me. Now of course I'm something of a moralist thanks to my Conservative Roman Catholic world view on pretty much fucking everything so even if I wanted a relationship, I was not looking for sex, and a sexually active woman would actually put me off. And with that said, even during my horny teenage years I did not want a relationship for casual sex (as much as my body really really wanted to), in fact the idea of casual sex cheapened the relationships of those in my friend circles as far as I could see, seemingly vindicated by the absurdly high break up ratios or the amount of relationships that just became emotionally abusive for both parties. I wanted none of that shit. So while pretty looks and a nice body were a highly desirable bonus, that was not what I was looking for, what was it then, personality? alot of girls I knew certainly had that, good ones too, and funny ones. But they either caved or clammed up when challenged when important issues on politics and society came up (like homosexuality or something similar was being discussed) They either changed their tone uncharacteristically to appease me in a discussion or they became fanatical about the subject and nearly broke the friendship off right there because how DARE anyone disagree with them on something like this.

I advise all you guys it is worth sizing up a girl's emotional and psycological health as well as gauging her opinions on at least some widespread social concerns (like abortion, contraception and some of the bigger political concerns) even if you don't agree with each-other to the point of a fight, the important thing is you find a girl who THINKS. If nothing else, it leads to better friendships. So much better friendships. I have several girls, (one a socially conservative yet politically and economically liberal from Canada and one other who is the epitome of an American Liberal Democrat from the west coast, I am best friends with both despite being an irredeemably morally and socially conservative absolutist monarchist from Ireland. (No, really)

So that's why I spent nearly all of my time single (and in that time only say one girl I knew asked me out), she was funny and didn't agree with me on everything, and I was interested in her at the time, but she had just gotten out of a bad relationship were the guy she was with, a whiny mother fucker, cheated on her and I wasn't going to move in, (because I like to think not being an opportunistic dick is a positive, moral, character trait) to my surprise a bunch of my friends informed me she was really taken by me (I had no idea the feelings were mutual) so I confronted her about it (a reminder: I was still socially awkward despite my bearings) I could've asked her out then and there but I wanted to be intellectually honest about it as she had been confessing her feelings to our mutual friends whereas I had not so I gave her the opportunity in a conversation we had, where I goaded her into confessing directly to me and giving her obvious OBVIOUS hints she should just go right out and ask me out. Before you ask, yes it was like pulling teeth, but she did it and we lasted for little over a year before the relationship broke down due to the converging forces of bad luck, parental abuse from a long dead mother, psychological problems and her feelings of inadequacy and clinginess as well as negotiating a miasma of circle jerking of her and her female friends and their respective emotional baggage and bullshit which pretty much cost me every other social circle I was in. She broke up with me a few days after her dad died in a car crash and proceeded to be involved in THREE destructive relationships over the following 4 weeks, which I only found out about after the fact.

Happy thoughts right? Anyway, hope my stories help.

 

[aei_haruko]

Queue teenage girls reading this thread for some unknown reason and saying, "But dating friends is weird."

To be honest, I've never seen anyone escape the Friend Zone, I wouldn't mind seeing some stories of people here if they have.

I fso i must be the perfect boyfriend ( sarcasm)
Like I'm always the one saying ' oh yeah, no problem if you're busy, we could always talk later"
Like I try to give her , her space. I always try to listen to her problems
I'm even learning mandarin to impress her mother.
Like I tryo to be sweet, kind etc...
but I feel as though i'm just not living up to her ' cool" standards, uggh. Thanks guys for listening to my idiotic feelings

 

[William Keller]

The golden rule in such situations is to be logical, perhaps a little pragmatic, at all times.
If she doesn't want you, that's the end of it. Nothing will change that, not to mention clinging on her until she succumbs. Move on, the world is full of beautiful women that willing to build a relationship. That way, it'll hurt much less as you will slowly learn to cope with loss and look forward.

Even if you're not their boyfriend, what's the big deal? You are still special to them. In case, however, they meant a lot to you (and I mean A LOT), then perhaps you should have told them how you feel earlier on.

To all ladies: Indeed, I too believe that being honest is much better than giving false hope. I would very much prefer being told that I am unattractive or that You do not want to be with me/close to me, rather than "I don't want to ruin our friendship/I look up to you like my brother" and so on.

Postscript: In Greek, the word for "human" is "άνθρωπος", which means "one who gazes upwards". Both men and women, don't get disappointed or overwhelmed by a failure. You have time and energy to try a thousand times.

 

[William Dickbringer]

I wasn't just friend zone'd I got put in the brother zone as in I viewed more as a brother than boyfriend oh well we're still good friends and I found my perfect someone

 

[Iznat]

I dated a friend ._.

Still am. And it's super!

 

[Comieman]

Eh, I've always felt that complaints about the "friend zone" were just people trying to avoid thinking too hard about why women chose someone else. If she doesn't see you that way, then she doesn't see you that way, no reason to make a fuss about it.

Fucking thank you.

I am so sick of this constant bitching about "the friend zone" as if the woman is doing something wrong.

She isn't. If she doesn't want to be with you, then she doesn't want to be with you. And banging on about how this is supposedly "unfair" because you're "the only person who treats her right" isn't going to solve anything and is completely counterproductive to a relationship. If it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. Don't sit around acting as though guys are just buffet items for the girl to choose from.

It's not a choice between dickheads and great guys. If a girl isn't attracted to you then get over it and appreciate the friendship you've developed with them. If you're sitting around being nice to a girl at your own inconvenience in the hopes that she'll get with you even though she doesn't seem interested, and you maintain that it's unfair that she picked someone else, then you obviously don't understand attraction (much less the woman you supposedly like) and need to do some serious growing up before getting into a relationship.



This is not a case of winning someone over, people. It's a case of putting yourself out there and being whoever you want to be, as long as you're respectful of others. And if a girl likes that, then good for you! don't sit around trying to be someone for this girl only to get pissed off when she *shock horror* decides she doesn't want to be with you, as unsurprising as that outcome is. Ever think that doing everything to please her will never, ever work? I'm not saying you should be mean - by all means, be respectful and polite and kind! but don't make a concious effort to be whoever you think she needs the most in the hopes of getting her, because that's an ass-backwards way of looking at it that also has the unfortunate side-effect of making you look completely spineless.
The reason she's more likely to go for a complete jerk is because the jerk at least seems confident. She'll learn the hard way sooner or later (assuming he really IS a jerk) about what a dick the guy is if he isn't treating her well. Why not just try to be the better man, instead of whining about how it isn't going your way?

TLR, If you were right for this girl then you wouldn't be acting as though you're just trying to bait a particularly stubborn fish by tending to it's every need. If she's worth the huge amounts of time you spent on her, then she must be worth your respect. So give it to her, instead of treating her like some kind of commodity that you're attempting to "win".

If she says no, don't stop being friends with her, but put your foot down when she wants to complain about other guys. Your time and feelings are valuable too.

They certianly are, but you can't blame her if she hasn't got a fucking clue that she's hurting them and wasting it, can you? after all, you've been acting as her friend for a while, so what right do you have to act as though you've suffered? you can blame her all you want, but you got here as a result of your own actions. If you'd stood on your own two feet earlier, then you might not have won her but you'd at least have gotten away with your dignity, and maybe a bit more respect and interest from her.

YOU were the one who chose to piss away so much time on someone who might never want to be with you, it was YOU who continued this despite feeling as though it was heading nowhere, and it's YOUR fault if that blows up in your face. So man up and deal with it. What are you going to say? "Hey, I know we're good friends and all, and I'm going to prove that I respect you and care about you by telling you to shut up whenever you want to talk about your guy problems, just because I arrogantly think that I'm the best thing for you, and I don't believe you know right from wrong, you know, cos I really like you, and I choose to show it by not actually being honest about it". Are you really going to label her decision to keep things friendly between the two of you as "wrong and misguided" simply because you believe yourself to be the best possible option? She put her trust in you as a friend and you backed it up by being so nice and friendly with her, it's PERFECTLY reasonable for her to want to talk to you about guys.
It's not like you were ever betrayed, if you don't want to make your feelings clear early on and see where it goes, or continue to be her friend despite rejection, then you have no right to complain when she wants to do something as reasonable as talk to you about guys. Be glad you're the go-to guy for her, despite the fact that you enjoy complaining about her making the "wrong" decisions, simply because she didn't pick you. If thatreally was the case, then she must just be foolish, right? so she's not worth your time. Problem solved - assuming that IS why she never "chose" you, and let's be frank, that is by far and large the least likely reason.


She isn't "lucky" to have a guy like you. She's unlucky because the guy who is trying to be the most attentive to who she is is also, unfortunately, exhibiting traits of the kind of person that very, very few women want to be with. Can you imagine if a girl was constantly trying to be whoever she thought you needed most, basing herself around your desires rather than being headstrong and independent? can you imagine how unbearably DULL someone like that would seem to you? Protip: People don't want to be with people who are obsessive and resort to utter subservience just to satisfy that obsession. BECAUSE THAT SHIT IS CREEPY.
She made herself clear already, so why are you acting as thought she's been leading you on? You haven't been wronged just because you chose to put far more faith than would normally be advisable in an unlikely outcome with someone who you know isn't attracted to you. Stop acting as though her desire to be with other guys is some kind of unfair result. It might not be what you want, but people are complex and you're going to have to deal with these situations. I'm not a master on this kind of thing by any means, but it doesn't take a genius to see that this approach is not only completely inneffective when it comes to getting her attention, but will only ever prove self-destructive.
Maybe it's just me, but I think eventually you'll learn that you're only going to throw your life away if you adopt this attitude towards every potential girlfriend. It involves putting a lot of time and effort into doing something that never works, and is essentially selfish. She didn't demand that you spend that time on her, she didn't ask you to be who she wanted as best you could with the promise of being together at the end of it as long as you fit the type as best you could.
You did it all because you thought it would get you what you wanted, and when it didn't, you started whining about it - even going so far as to make derogatory statements about the girl who you apparently admire, and who put her trust in you as a friend, just because she didn't "choose" you... as if who you're attracted to is some kind of concious decision that she's stubbornly holding back on.

And in the end, how "respectful" can you possibly claim to be? I'm pretty sure that if anyone found something like this and discovered that it was written by a close friend of theirs, they'd be pretty upset, and would feel betrayed. And I don't think that would be an unrasonable stance for her to take if the girl you're talking about were to read this. I'd love to see you try to justify the things you're saying if she were ever to read them.
If you think so highly of her, why are you writing stuff like this behind her back? All the time you spend waiting on her, yet you obviously don't hold her in high enough esteem to respect her decisions or to deal with how you feel about them like a mature person. It becomes fairly clear that you don't respect her or admire her - you just want her. Your gestures are not only ineffective for reasons which should be clear, but they're hollow. You're lying. You're acting like her friend, like the perfect guy for her just to get her. Clearly you're not the perfect guy for her at all.
The perfect guy for her doesn't go around saying shit behind her back just because he's a little pissy that his blatant pandering didn't get him what he wanted. That's the sort of pathetic behavior that is on a par with the kind of jerks who would use her and dump her. How much better than them can you claim to be, when all you do is act nice to her just to get her to do what you want her to? that's manipulative and cruel, especially when you're lucky enough to have her put her trust in you.

TLR (lol, again) stop blaming the woman for your own fuck ups like a petulant child, and stop claiming you are the best guy for her when you're providing evidence to the contrary with every complaint you make about her refusal to give you what you want.

I'm sorry if I offended you with this man. I didn't want to be so harsh but it came out that way. But I believe in everything I said 100%, and I'm willing to risk moderator wrath for it.

You might counter this by telling me that you genuinely, truly love this girl. And I might believe you.

But if you do, you need to start acting like it.

And one more thing, just a little logical flaw in this: how can you expect her to reciprocate the affection you claim to have for her when you aren't 100% straight-up about who you are, preferring instead to try your best to please her in every way?


Yeah, look at me. acting like I know what I'm talking about.... i stand by everything I just typed, though.

Its much, much worse when they decide to put you in the friend zone AFTER you dated them. My experience was dating for ~5 months, getting the cold shoulder for the last month, then at the end of her saying "I love you like a friend, so we're breaking up."
If you loved me like a friend, why didn't you say that from the beginning?

Maybe she was struggling with her feelings. Maybe she had a hard time dealing with it. Maybe she's just as deserving of a bit of sympathy and understanding in this situation as you are.

But hey, if you find it easier to pretend like you were the sole victim, then be my guest. Hell, a lot of people here seem to have already taken it upon themselves to believe that the woman's decisions, flaws and lack of consience are the only reason a relationship ever goes wrong if cheating isn't involved, so fuck it. I may as well hop on the mysoginist bandwagon and join the ranks of men who complain endlessly about women while wondering why they can never keep one around.

...Don't even get me started on the whole "FZ" bullshit. I have been dealing with something along those lines for the past 10 months. It has made me become an even more miserable bastard then I was before all of it. I can't seem to get anything through to this woman.

hey, come on in! join the party! stick around, I like having some fuel for my compulsive raving.

*snip*

*snip*

you guys. Fucking read my post. Now.

Look, stop blaming women just because you never had the courage to ask the girl out in the first place.

This, this, one thousand bloody times, this. Two years ago I was a passive little sissy, dropping luckwarm hints and actually saying nothing. I bitched about the friend zone all the time to other people but never bothered to actually ask her out. Know what happened when I did? She said no! Why? Because she had gotten to know me as a friend and wanted me to stay as a friend? How does the story end? We're still friends and hang out a fair bit. It's fun.

The point is, if you fancy someone, don't pin after them for months, being a slight creep and never actually asking them out, because it will backfire! If you want to go out with someone, it's okay to ask them to go out with you!

I like you, sir.

People seem to think their are only two types of guys: Cocksuckers and "nice guys". The Cocksuckers should be obvious as to what it is, the asshole that thinks he is the shit. The second is more complicate. Being a "nice guy" and actually being a nice guy are completely different. The "nice guy" is the one that waits on his interest hand and foot, never standing up to her or contradicting her. Then they get in a huff cause their putting her on a pedestal isn't working, and that she would be lucky to have a guy like you. Most of the stories of these guys tends to leave out rather glaring character flaws on the part of the guy, but I won't go into that. I know this cause I used to think like that, then I actually got a girlfriend. Being nice does not mean being submissive and subservient. Treat your love interest as a human being, not as a goddess. (Entering conjecture territory, feel free to correct me, as I only have the male perspective) Most women don't want a servant, they want an equal with whom they can share their life with and all that jazz. Woman don't really think THAT much differently than men. Learned that going to a school that was 75% female. People actually thought I was gay because I went through high school single despite the 75% female thing.

Landing in the friend zone is the result of not being a challenge to the girl, and not being forward with your intent. To put it simply, you're being the "nice guy".

What I am about to say can easily be contended, but I believe it is true more often than not.

Women are attracted to the alpha male personality. Ideal male mates are supposed to be confident, independent, and totally in control. In fact, these personal traits make you so "powerful" that you are supposed to be a high value target to women. You need to act as though you can get any girl you want at any time because you are king shit.

With this mindset, you must not see her as a person for whom you are supposed to please, but rather she is supposed to feel as though she needs you. This means literally cutting down contact and making it a point to show that you will pursue other women if she is not willing to take you seriously. Cutting to the chase, you must stop being her "friend" first, and assume that she will feel attracted to your traits enough to where she is willing stop being your "friend" because she wants you for more than that.

The hardest thing about all of this is that you're not going to want to do anything to upset her or to make her think that you don't want her. This is the biggest mistake you can make, though. Every other guy out there who doesn't care whether they get "her" or not is immediately seen as a higher value target because they are superior to her. You, on the other hand, appear needy.

To avoid entering the friend zone, withhold your "want to" from her until she has clearly demonstrated interest in you, as well as has demonstrated her personal value. Then it makes sense that you like her because she has now met your personal criteria.

Both of you get QFT. Although to the second guy.... damn, you know? I would have tried to put it in a nicer, less, uh.... scheming way. I mean, you're kind of right, but that's some Machiavellian shit right there.

Alright, well my first girlfriend broke up with me for the second time just before high school started. She said she didn't want to put our friendship at risk by going into high school in a relationship.

It was just an excuse so she could be free to date everyone she met that year. And she did. And then moved. Long story.

And please remember from this example that we men are also prone to making bad decisions when it comes to women (no offence man). Both genders have their bad points when it comes to shit like this, so let's all grow up and get over them in the hopes that we can smooth it all out, yeah?

Again, not talking about you there Phlakes. I too have been there. Shit just happens sometimes. We learn, we move on.

A lot of cool, correct stuff

Dude, you are so right. I used to think about the unfairness of the Friend Zone and all that, but after some thinking, I realized that you are not there to please her, and if she doesn't want you, well, she doesn't want you.

It's though shit, and it's still a bit hard to remember it whenever a girl says no, but, well, a lot of us need to grow up and mature and all that.

Uh, thank you. I'm glad you did.... something about this topic just causes me to rage. I didn't come off as mental or opinionated? well... thank god.

*snipped because my post was already STUPIDLY long*

*and again*

Might I just say, it's nice to see that every member of the Escapist community who saw this post hasn't declared me a complete nutjob. I Believe what i said, but I feel like I said far far far too much and I wonder if I had the right to say it at all. >_<

I've encountered so many guys saying the exact same thing, and I really, really wish they'd stop it. It just isn't fair on the person that they're attracted to, it isn't fair in the slightest. I probably sound really arrogant here myself, but I can't believe how many of them can go for years and years doing this again and again, and still manage to believe that it's not their problem, but just something irritating that girls do (I've been there myself, a long time ago). And no matter how much you tell thm, they refuse to accept responsibility for how it turns out.

Truth of the matter is, a girl is looking for a guy who is confident and headstrong but isn't a jerkass, to put it in broad, general terms. I honestly believe there's a forum out there full of girls starting threads where the OP says stuff like "So there's this guy I really like who's really, really nice, and he's great, but he's just so... y'know? clingy, it's like he just wants to be whoever I want, just so he can be with me, which is a huge turnoff. His friendship is nice, but it's like he only wants to please me just to get with me, and that's so fucking creepy. And I met this other guy who seems really confident and strng, but he's kind of a dick... I dunno who to choose, I just wish there was a fucking middle ground here!"

I love you for two reasons:
First: you nailed the topic
Second: big thoughtful wall of text is thoughtful...and big!

 

[barbzilla]

Even if you don't want to give that person a chance because you are just not into him for whatever reason, fine stop using him. Stay friends, but your privileges of complaining about the losers you choose to date is over. Don't torture him with this crap.

You do not deserve the woman you want if you think that of her complaints. I'm sorry, you made sense till this line here, then I went "oh god, if you don't actually give a damn, why did you pretend to do so in the first place?" It's simple, stop pretending, if you actually like her then you WANT to listen to her problems, not go "argh, not another woman issue, why can't we just FUCK!" be a man, not a boy.

Once again see my post about being a friend if you want to be friends. I am not saying we don't care as guys, we do and that is why we not only listen to these complaints, we often ask what happened and listen with interest. Where I am saying stop complaining about the guys is after the guy has made a move and made his interests clear, he is still going to listen to all of the girls rants about how guy x made her cry because he does care. The issue with this is most guys won't man up and tell the woman how it makes them feel, so if you have the little puppy as a friend try to consider his feelings too.

 

[robincb]

this really nice chick, we met one day and we just talked for like 3 hours, then a month later for 3 more hours and suddenly she was my girlfriend, 6 days later im single again, because she has 'too much on her mind'. one week later she has someone else, the scars heal so slowly