Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)

[Jerubbaal]

i laugh a little when guys act like only women do this anyway best just friend line
i got was you are more of a wife type you know i can take you home to meet my mom and i ain`t looking for that
me;so you want a ho.
dude: kind of

When I'm not interested in a woman romantically I make it clear. This really is more of an issue with women.

Also, I've been pretty unsuccessful with women in my life. But I've gotten over it, and now I'm starting law school. So if I end up finding the right girl, things will be amazing. And if not, I'll at least be filthy rich.

 

[dagens24]

If a woman is complaining to you about never being able to find a great guy it's because you aren't a great guy. If you were she'd be sleeping with you. /end thread

 

[longboardfan]

@ Interairplay, @ barbzilla, and @ GigaHz
Seconly, Gigahz, you mentioned having female friends. How do you propose going about doing that? Women are always acting skittish and uncomfortable around me. I don't even have to say anything. I once got maced just for sitting at a lunch table in the college cafeteria. I'm not sure why, but does it matter? I annoy and irritate people just be existing.

Fun fact: If you're trying to figure out how to become more approachable to women, you're already doing it wrong. Seriously, I read your whole post and was able to just cut it down to this and still get the same result: Women and men are the same, aside from where social stigma embeds some deep-seated difference, and even then it tends to not be very consistent. Treating people as people is typically what it takes to get out of the sausage-fest life. If you act like somebody's genitalia determines their personality, then it's probably you that's the problem, not women.

Also, you won't get along with most people. Don't get down just because you don't make friends with somebody. Try to get to know somebody if you're already involved with them in some way (A common class, job or even route works) and then moving on if it doesn't work is a pretty easy way to make friends. You'd be surprised how often somebody will come back to you later and say that they liked you, if you were appropriately nice.

I'm going to end this here. I have tried making friends repeatedly offline, and I also end up being used. The only time people call me to go do something is when they need me to do something for them. I treat people as people already. Its trying to treat someone as a potential mate that's the problem. I already have a functional co-worker mentality with others. Its trying to treat people as something other than a platonic, cold, sterile relationship that's the problem.

 

[Eduku]

Queue teenage girls reading this thread for some unknown reason and saying, "But dating friends is weird."

It's weird to me that anybody would ever think that. I mean, how can you stand dating strangers? That always pissed me off: A girl who constantly goes out with random guys who people warn her is a complete dick-biter, and then she acts surprised when they turn out to be right. Here's a general rule: Only trust somebody you were already close to when dating.

Also, 'escaping' the friend zone is possible. I've done it a lot. It just takes the right amount of initiative, and knowing when to back off.

Whoa, you went into a sort of spiral there. Being a stranger doesn't mean they'll turn out to be 'dick-biters', or at least that's how it sounds like you put it.

Besides, it's all well and good dating someone you're close to, and there's also a certain thrill about meeting someone new and getting to know them. I wouldn't say you should stick to one or the other.

 

[PureChaos]

once you are in the FZ, there is no getting out of it

 

[Johnny Impact]

Dude you gotta shape up, and man the hell up. You shouldn't settle for just a friend, you gotta take life by the BALLS and demand to get more respect then that from life.

Ah, yes, because rape *is* the answer. Why ask them out, or tolerate mere friendship, when I can DEMAND respect by throwing them down and having my way with them! I see now. Thank you, Arehexes, for showing us the way!

I've got some advice for you, Arehexes: Advice should be a little more helpful than, "Shutcher faggoty little mouth and grow a pair!"

Confidence does not come from being told to man up. Respect does not come from demanding it. Bad feelings do not go away just because we wish they would.

Some of us get so lost, the very idea that we could ever be happy seems absurd. You don't find your way back from that kind of attitude just because someone tells you to stop whining.

It's annoying, true, but I realise now "friend" is the only position I can ever gain, hell, I'm lucky for just that. I'm an abomination, disgusting, insane, barely qualifiable as human. The only purpose I may serve is as that problem dump. I reject that, then I truly am of no use to anyone.

So I understand. People like to talk about their s*** to me for some reason, but they would never want to look at me, not for too long, and definately not everyday.

Doc, you and I have the same problem. We lack confidence because we don't love ourselves. It may be the corniest thing I've ever said but that doesn't make it a lie: no one will love you until you love yourself.

Right now, you are acting like road kill. You're hurt and you think you're all done. You feel squashed and dead, like there's nothing left except to lie there and wait for the crows to come pick you away bit by bit.

This attitude isn't attractive in the slightest. Women can sense it from a mile away. They know how you feel before you do.

Try to stop thinking about how much it hurts, or how much you NEED to be loved. Whatever women want -- I don't claim to know exactly what that is, it's different for each one -- I'm pretty confident most of them do not want a bottomless pit of pain and need they have to keep trying to fill up.

The very fact that you are still alive to feel the hurt means you are NOT all done. You haven't been killed, only hurt. It'll happen again. Only way to stop it is to die, and that's not really a solution.

Concentrate on something good. If they're willing to be friends at all, it means you aren't a total loss. It means you have something to start with, some crumb of a positive trait from which to build a base. If they think you're worth telling their problems to, then that's something. It might not seem like much -- and it won't be, in the beginning. But it's a start.

Take that little spark of self-esteem and blow on it. Try thinking of yourself as a trusted confidant with excellent empathy. Sounds better than road kill, does it not? Do things to make yourself more attractive: exercise, stop slouching, practice your smile, learn to banter.

Remember this companionship and affection you so desire will have its own set of needs. Trivializing those needs as a "problem dump" will get you exactly nowhere.

As a final note, do your best to ignore people like Arehexes. Their blustery crap can't help anyone.

 

[Johnny Impact]

(A happy story about the friend zone)

That's the best thing I've read on this site in at least two months.

Speaking briefly from the female perspective.............

No, THIS is the best thing I've read on this site in two months. Knowing there is even one woman in the world who actually thinks like this is enough to galvanize any right-thinking guy.

 

[Arehexes]

Dude you gotta shape up, and man the hell up. You shouldn't settle for just a friend, you gotta take life by the BALLS and demand to get more respect then that from life.

Ah, yes, because rape *is* the answer. Why ask them out, or tolerate mere friendship, when I can DEMAND respect by throwing them down and having my way with them! I see now. Thank you, Arehexes, for showing us the way!

I've got some advice for you, Arehexes: Advice should be a little more helpful than, "Shutcher faggoty little mouth and grow a pair!"

Confidence does not come from being told to man up. Respect does not come from demanding it. Bad feelings do not go away just because we wish they would.

Some of us get so lost, the very idea that we could ever be happy seems absurd. You don't find your way back from that kind of attitude just because someone tells you to stop whining.

It's annoying, true, but I realise now "friend" is the only position I can ever gain, hell, I'm lucky for just that. I'm an abomination, disgusting, insane, barely qualifiable as human. The only purpose I may serve is as that problem dump. I reject that, then I truly am of no use to anyone.

So I understand. People like to talk about their s*** to me for some reason, but they would never want to look at me, not for too long, and definately not everyday.

Doc, you and I have the same problem. We lack confidence because we don't love ourselves. It may be the corniest thing I've ever said but that doesn't make it a lie: no one will love you until you love yourself.

Right now, you are acting like road kill. You're hurt and you think you're all done. You feel squashed and dead, like there's nothing left except to lie there and wait for the crows to come pick you away bit by bit.

This attitude isn't attractive in the slightest. Women can sense it from a mile away. They know how you feel before you do.

Try to stop thinking about how much it hurts, or how much you NEED to be loved. Whatever women want -- I don't claim to know exactly what that is, it's different for each one -- I'm pretty confident most of them do not want a bottomless pit of pain and need they have to keep trying to fill up.

The very fact that you are still alive to feel the hurt means you are NOT all done. You haven't been killed, only hurt. It'll happen again. Only way to stop it is to die, and that's not really a solution.

Concentrate on something good. If they're willing to be friends at all, it means you aren't a total loss. It means you have something to start with, some crumb of a positive trait from which to build a base. If they think you're worth telling their problems to, then that's something. It might not seem like much -- and it won't be, in the beginning. But it's a start.

Take that little spark of self-esteem and blow on it. Try thinking of yourself as a trusted confidant with excellent empathy. Sounds better than road kill, does it not? Do things to make yourself more attractive: exercise, stop slouching, practice your smile, learn to banter.

Remember this companionship and affection you so desire will have its own set of needs. Trivializing those needs as a "problem dump" will get you exactly nowhere.

As a final note, do your best to ignore people like Arehexes. Their blustery crap can't help anyone.

One I didn't say rape you are, thanks for putting words in my mouth prick. I was saying if they don't want to even give you a chance then why bother, don't be their lap dog who is a friend when you want more. Just drop that "friend" and move on since people are better then that.

Two sometimes you gotta show that your not some wuss who will just life push him around.

And for your advice you gave me, yes that does work for some people because if your are going to sit and say "well I wish things go my way" or "I should just give up since nothing works" then you have to man up. And you know what I have friends tell me the same damn thing I said and they are right. People can sit there and listen and talk and try to help but if your not willing to help yourself then why should they help you. It all boils down on you.

And I wanna point this out

Some of us get so lost, the very idea that we could ever be happy seems absurd. You don't find your way back from that kind of attitude just because someone tells you to stop whining.

That was me in high school since I was more or less mocked and made fun of by most of my school since I wasn't "black" (i.e. like the same things other people at my school liked). Or my asking out girls and getting stood up or reject through a lie. So yeah I was there and you know what I did what my advice yes, I manned the hell up and got over it. I got sick and tired of being depressed and I was sick of feeling bad for myself. Once I god out of high school I changed and you know what, I'm much better off. So yeah piss off for acting like "manning up" doesn't work for people. And yeah I got respect from my peers because I don't take crap from them and I showed them my skills and worth as a person in my major. So again you can just piss off prick. I don't need to feel bad for myself because I know that I have the respect of my family and friends and I respect them back.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

Here

Woah.

I gotta say, those were quite eye-opening.

Thanks.

People seem to be very closed and desperate when it comes to romance, attraction and dating. It's like those feelings are too sacred and scary to be discussed. Yes, such feelings can be very powerful, but it's always better to be open instead of let tension brew underneath all of the smiles. You can't run from them and hope everything will come to you smoothly. You have to approach them head on with a straight head and an open heart.

 

[Johnny Impact]

snip

People like you, who are brimming over with confidence, who reduce everything to very simple terms, simply rub me the wrong way. You always have.

Maybe it's because I'm detail-oriented. I can see all the ways in which a thing can go wrong. I'm a critic. I find flaws. I don't consider that a defect, I consider it a useful skill. But, as a result, great confidence always seems somewhat foolish to me.

Maybe it's because the people who used to bully me did so with complete confidence. There was never any doubt in their minds that I was there for their amusement. I was a hole in which they could dump their own frustrations. They could do whatever they wanted, it was their right. It was that simple. Absolute, insufferable confidence.

Enough self-analysis. I should not judge you for having a different attitude from mine, nor by the actions of others.

I apologize.

Okay. Discussion.

First, what I meant by the rape comment: The only way to demand another person's attention -- actually, undeniably demand it -- is with physical assault. You said man up, grab what you want, demand what you think you're owed. That's a dangerous way to talk to someone as frustrated as that guy. Guys like him can bottle everything up for ever and ever, becoming pressure cookers of internalized rage and sick need. If it's not allowed to bleed off slowly, it might all come out at once. You tell him to demand respect, you might end up with a result you really did not intend. It's why pushy football players aren't the only rapists or murderers. Sometimes it's the quiet, mousy-looking guy down the street, who nobody figured would ever hurt a fly.

If you have recovered from depression, as you claim, you know there's a bit more to it than simply getting tired of the way you feel. If that's all that happened to bring you out of it -- you got tired of feeling bad -- then you are either lucky or didn't have a serious problem. Is that your argument, that he doesn't have a problem? He sure as hell thinks he has one. His perception might be creating the problem but the problem still exists. It's just a problem of perception rather than fact. You see a man stuck in a cell of his own construction and all you can do is rattle the bars and yell at him, "Fuck you, there is no cell!" I see that same man and I look for something that might be a key.

There's more to a man than just confidence. I said confidence and respect do not come on demand and I stand by that. I said bad feelings do not go away by wishing and I stand by that.

I disagree not with the gist of your argument but with your statement for how to get there. I can't help but feel that "manning up" has more negative connotations than positive ones. It seems more like picking a fight instead of talking things out, or developing a shell of arrogance to cover pain and insecurity which are, in fact, still present. You make it sound like a quick fix. It isn't. It sounds misleading when stated so simply. It would be a disservice to this guy to tell him it's easy, or simple, or quick.

When building a house, one does not start with the living room, the comfy place one will spend the most time in later. One starts with the foundations. Confidence comes in small positive steps. "Today I changed the brake pads on my car for the first time." Now you know there's a thing you can do that not everyone can. "Today when I was in line at Starbuck's a woman smiled at me, and it wasn't just out of courtesy." Another brick of confidence to build your home with. It takes many bricks but you get there eventually.

Once you've established some confidence, respect follows. People see the house you're building and they like it.

It sounded to me like he doesn't know how to take that first step. All he can see is what's wrong. He's throwing the bricks away because he doesn't think he'll ever have enough. And as long as he keeps throwing them away, he WILL never have enough. I'm trying to get him to keep just one brick, to get him started.

Am I making sense?

Upon deeper consideration I suppose your method is as valid as mine. No offense but I doubt either one of us helped him at all. He's going to have to help himself. (You reading this, bud? No one can help you. Sorry, that's the breaks.)

Now that I look back, I see both of us suggested positive thinking was the answer.

So again, I'm sorry. I'm bigger than childish bullshit and if I'm not I should be.

 

[Acier]

So with the current influx of relationship advice topics popping up the past two weeks I have noticed a few things about the "Friends Zone".

First things first, lets clarify what I mean by friends zone. When I speak of the Friends Zone (FZ from now on as it is going to be a recurring theme here) I mean the unfortunate out come of one friend developing a romantic interest in another who does not reciprocate the feelings. 99% of the time this is the guy who develops the feelings. It usually starts as something innocent, but it can also spawn from poor judgement one night. Whether it comes from just being around each other so much or from making out one night when you were both drunk, the effect is the same. Feelings have changed.

The guy usually knows he is in the FZ and will make the attempt to win the girl over by being there for her and showing her how great of a guy he is. You call us up and complain about the guy you just broke up with or the loser your dating and tell us how you wish you could find someone like us to date. We are listening. At some point (usually after hearing about how you wish you could find a guy just like us) we will confront you with our feelings. There are times when this works out, but usually we get "I don't want to ruin our friendship" or some variation on this (I have heard them all).

I get so sick of hearing women complain about not being able to find a great guy when they are complaining to the person who is always there for them. The guy who never fails to answer the phone when she calls (even if he is busy). The guy who can quote back whole sentences of what she said a week ago. The guy who knows their favorite color, number, flower, movie, or their fears and doubts. The guy who could plan the perfect date at the drop of a hat because he knows what turns you on and find enjoyable.

Women reading this post, if you are reading this and know I am talking about you stop toying with this guy. If we are important enough to give us 20%-40% of your life already then we are important enough to give a chance. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, we have proven we are good friends and if it doesn't work out no hard feelings. If it does work though, imagine waking up to a guy 10 years down the road who still wants to listen to you ramble on for 4 hours about the most inane stuff just because we love hearing your voice. You will be glad you gave him the chance.

Even if you don't want to give that person a chance because you are just not into him for whatever reason, fine stop using him. Stay friends, but your privileges of complaining about the losers you choose to date is over. Don't torture him with this crap.

Guys if this is you, make sure she knows how you feel. Don't hide it. You are not going to feel any better if you go through life with What ifs on your mind. If she says no, don't stop being friends with her, but put your foot down when she wants to complain about other guys. Your time and feelings are valuable too.

Just for kicks and giggles I would love to hear the just friends lines you have received in the past (IE: I don't want things to change between us)

EDIT: I am not looking for relationship advice, I am currently in an early stage relationship and having a blast. The purpose of this post was to point out some inconsistencies.

tl;dr I don't understand women or the concept of sexual attraction.

This post makes me so angry I don't want to risk getting reported and my response has probably already been replicated in this thread. But yeah, stop being so freakin' pretentious when talking to women about something that doesn't exist

 

[Geekiest]

(A happy story about the friend zone)

That's the best thing I've read on this site in at least two months.

Speaking briefly from the female perspective.............

No, THIS is the best thing I've read on this site in two months. Knowing there is even one woman in the world who actually thinks like this is enough to galvanize any right-thinking guy.

Wow. Thanks. I try for logic-centric, clearly delineated, consequence-based decision making. Been trying to proselytize all my girl friends into that kind of behavior as well, with mixed results, but the ones I've made the most progress with are both doing really well in the relationship department(one with a good long-term relationship, and another learning to dodge the bad short-term ones). If there're women you know who need a dose of that and are willing I'm always good with spreading my philosophies.

Here's to hoping some day I find I guy who can appreciate it.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

The Friend Zone is what happens when a man or a woman isn't upfront with the person they have feelings for because they're afraid of rejection.

I'm not saying it's impossible for friendship to develop into a romantic relationship, but every girl I've ever dated began with me going up to her and making things clear from the start. Every friendzone I've ended up in began with me trying to get to know a girl first and be the nice guy. I was friends with a girl for four years of my life despite hardly ever spending time a girl. Doesn't work, in my experience.

Girls who's first impression of a guy is "nice guy friend" have a hard time reconciling their image of him when he comes out and say that their several year long friendship was all just a front to get near her. It's creepy.

As for my experience. I chased after one girl for most of my time through high school. I dated a few girls, but was never really happy with them. I wanted this one girl, and we were friends. I finally opened up, and she says she thinks of me as a friend. Shit sucked, but that was my fault for waiting. Years later, I don't know what I was thinking. She's getting fat. She's a mean, spiteful, and lazy. The only thing going for her is her looks. I was a fool. I let down far better girls.

Another time in college, I did it again. We ended up going on a date for my military ball, and the night before I let it slip how I felt directly. Made sense at the time, because why the Hell else would she agree to go out with me? Nope, just friends. The night turned out really awkwardly for both of us. We haven't really talked sense.

There was this one girl who was always my friend through High School. Even though I hardly talked to her, she always wanted to talk with me. I found out after I graduated she had a massive crush on me from her friend, but never had the nerve to talk to me. To give you an idea how oblivious I was, we even joked about having sex with each other. I told I thought it would be weird because we're friends. I was a complete idiot.

The girl I'm dating now, I just walked up to her in the coffee shop, said, "Hi, I'm Irvine." Sat down, and we talked for a couple hours. Mostly about how she liked to program computers. End of the day, I had her phone number.

 

[TheDooD]

I hate the friend zone when girls still talk about their sexual experiences and how can you help them please their man better. Or when they ***** about how this guy treats them like shit. After they you there for them longer then the current BF. Guys don't like getting played with like women don't like it.

I can say having friends when you can talk about anything too is good. Yet it isn't fair to them when they're sexually attracted to the other party and the other one knows about it. Either make it extremely clear that you don't want any intimate interaction and they're only a friend. Or at lease give them their one wish to be closer to you, a one night stand, date, something so they don't feel like they're hanging on a line. Not letting them know anything and stringing them along hurts them more then you really know. You either need to make it very clear when somebody states they have feeling for you and they're a good person that you want to keep things simple or try to take it to another level.

 

[Radelaide]

Sorry, I find blaming women a little harsh.

I've had plenty of guys put me in the friend zone. "Wah, I can't find a girl who shares my enthusiasm for my hobbies!"

I play the games they do, enjoy the sports they do, like the same foods as they do but I get put in the friend zone because I'm "one of the guys"

 

[barbzilla]

Quite a varied responce to this thread. To those interested and who have not already seen it, the follow up to this thread is
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.302782-Man-Up-AKA-How-to-be-yourself


I am not going to bother multi quoting, but I would like to point out to a few people that they should read the full thread before responding to the OP. Often there are further qualifiers that are revealed further down the line. I suppose I could take the effort to EDIT my first post, but that just seems like work and I am working on my follow up to the Man Up thread.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

(A happy story about the friend zone)

That's the best thing I've read on this site in at least two months.

Speaking briefly from the female perspective.............

No, THIS is the best thing I've read on this site in two months. Knowing there is even one woman in the world who actually thinks like this is enough to galvanize any right-thinking guy.

Well, I lost that crown fast.