Frostbite 2 engine and Dragon Age 3

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Tigerlily Warrior

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Joccaren said:
Tigerlily Warrior said:
So does this mean DA3 will be a FPS? Anyone??
No.
The New C&C game - an RTS - is also being made on Frostbite 2, leading me to believe it is a flexible engine.

What this means is that DA3 SHOULD look great, provided Bioware put effort into the PC version's graphics.
Personally, I'm not sure what the gameplay will be like, but I'm hoping its not DA2 style. If it is... I'll probably skip on purchasing it. That combat was bleh.
Good point. If it can do a RTS and a FPS, hopefully it can do a RPG 3PS. I'm all about the story so I'm cautiously optimisic.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Hawkeye 131 said:
I should propably make it known that although I am a MASSIVE fan of both BioWare and Mass Effect 1 $ 2 (not 3), I have never played the Dragon Age games. That being said I regularly play Battlefield 3 which uses the Frostbite 2 engine so I have a basic understanding of what to expect in terms of graphics with that engine.

As you pointed out EA has been getting it's money's worth out of Frostbite that's for sure;
- Battlefield 3
- Need for Speed: The Run
- Medal of Honor: Warfighter
- Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel
- Command & Conquer: Generals 2
- Battlefield 4
- Dragon Age 3: Inquisition

I myself would be more concerned with the developers of DA3 using the Frostbite 2 engine than the engine itself. BioWare as a whole is on thin ice, after the mediocre response to DA2, the shaky future of SW:ToR and the critical response to ME3. BioWare should tread VERY carefully in the coming future.

As for the Frostbite 2 engine all things being equal (which is a long shot), you can expect a from a graphical perspective a very impressive looking game even on consoles. Like so many video game engines Frostbite has/is/will and most likely always be updated, improved and advanced as the technology behind it does the samething. Also (don't qoute me on this because I'm not sure), I recall reading an article regarding how EA had recently opened an entire studio solely dedicated to explotation of the Frostbite 2 engine. On top of that, now various studios are all using the same engine therefore, each studio probably has multiple engineers, programmers and software developers who will be making their own changes to how the engine works. Lastly in a recent GameInformer article one of the developers working on the new Army of Two game said that the ALL developers themselves have an entire forum solely dedicated to the Frostbite 2 engine where they can discuss, question and comment on every single aspect of that engine.

All that said I think at the very least Dragon Age 3 should look very impressive.

-Hawk
Great detail. Thanks!!!
 

SajuukKhar

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PercyBoleyn said:
This has nothing to do with PR propaganda. The differences in quality between old and modern games are astounding. Coincidentally, the modern gaming era also saw a huge shift towards a "production line" style of development. I'm not saying in the past making money wasn't on the "to do" list of developers but as it stands, and taking into account the differences in quality, it's obvious developers were more engaged and publishers less aggressive when it came to things like marketing and tampering.
Ohh please, there were countless old games that were just as crappy, if not even more so, then today.

Older games only seemed to be better on average because people forgot all the countless clones, rehashes, and bad sequels that existed back then, just like how 20 years from now people will forget 95% of all the bad games that exist today.

Its exactly like music, every generation thinks the next generations music sucks, is repetitive, etc. etc. and yet ironically the previous generation was exactly the same way.

Games today are no better or worse then games 10-20 years ago, and the reason why people make those games has not change, i.e. money.
PercyBoleyn said:
The ammount of effort put into games like Morrowind and P:T shows that was not necessarily the case.
Have you ever played morrowind?
-Constant repetitive caves
-90% of Npcs were blank and just reused the same rumor dialogs
-Most quests were boring repetitive fetch quests that had no real purpose or story behind them
-The landscape was repetitive
-the Journal blew
-The Map was useless

Morrowind was the game that got me to love the Elder Scrolls, and I hold it as one of my favorite games of all time, but Mororwind, was actually pretty shitty, repetitive, and souless for most of it.
PercyBoleyn said:
Seeing as EA was more interested in copying the formula of whatever game was FOTM back in 2007/2008, which was Call of Duty, Dragon Age sure as hell proves EA kept its tampering to a minimum. I mean it's not like DA:O was free of it but most of the work done before the aquisition seems to have been left intact. I'm basing this on the games Bioware released after DA:O. Pre DA:O and post DA:O Bioware is like night and fucking day.
Not really, the only difference between Bioware Pre and post DAO is that Bioware changed their target audience.

They stopped making games for audience A and went to audience B, their games aren't worse, they just aren't for you, and not for me either, as I don't particularly care for Bioware period.

All I see is a bunch of angry people mad over the fact that Bioware isn't trying to get their money and is instead trying to get someone elses money.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Scrustle said:
I haven't really had much personal experience with the Frostbite 2 engine but from what I've seen it look amazing with Battlefield 3. It was also used with Need for Speed The Run, which in my opinion didn't look great. The cars looked like they were made out of clay. But that could just be Black Box's ineptitude showing itself yet again. Conversely, since DICE made Frostbtite 2 I'm sure they know how to make the most of it.

I don't think a graphics engine really has much impact on whether a game of a given genre will be any good or not. It's more the physics engine that does that. For example you would be stupid to use the Assassin's Creed engine to make something like a snowboarding game. That didn't stop them trying though. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_white_snowboarding] But the point is that different physics engines have different specialities in terms of what tasks they can perform. Graphics engines only do that in relation to visuals. It doesn't have anything to do with gameplay or style of gameplay; i.e., genre.

Dragon Age 3 will not suddenly be filled with nothing except people with crossbows and QTEs because it's using Frostbite. That's silly. The visual style and fidelity of the games may change somewhat (probably for the better) but the graphics engine means pretty much nothing when it comes to gameplay. The reason the game is using the engine is because EA is trying to put it in every game it can because it wants to advertise what a great engine it is, even though of course it was DICE's expertise that built it, not EA's.
Thanks! You rock! Very smart.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Draech said:
The Witcher 2 was run on the very impressive RED engine. The engine didn't make or break the game, but it was a clear plus. Pretty does ad something. But it was more than that. The engine also calculates the physics of the world is therefore directly tied to the "feel" of the game. It isn't the be all end all, but like so many other things an enthusiast will be able to recognize the engines used (what is made on the unreal engine can be determined with a pretty high accuracy).

Now for those who are fearing that the Frostbite engine means that it will have a shooter feel, let me assure you that there is no correlation. Aion was made on the Cry engine and it in no way feels like a shooter. It is all in the use of the engine.

Now the Frostbite engine does very good job at 2 things. Pretty pictures and physics calculations. A good developer will use those abilities to best relay the overall experience they are going to portray. They have the possibility to do massive physics calculation of explosions and projectiles, but does that mean it is the experience you want to portray? Can you use this tool effectively in a way that does portray the experience?

In the end it is one less excuse they have to fuck it up. Talented people can do very much with very little, and they just a VERY big expensive tool. Let us see them make good use of it.
Thanks Draech!
 

Mr.Amakir

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SajuukKhar said:
Devoneaux said:
Most, not all. Your generalization is invalid.
Can you provide an example of a game that was released for free were the creator didn't have one of those two things in mind originally?
NetHack, Dwarf Fortress, Angband, POWDER. I could go on all day if you want?
 

SajuukKhar

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Mr.Amakir said:
NetHack, Dwarf Fortress, Angband, POWDER. I could go on all day if you want?
Can you actually prove tha those games were relased without the intent of the creator to be recognized by a larger company?

OFC not, no game developer would ever state their selfish goals to others, they would hide behind "i did it for the people" propaganda in order to win people over by making themselves seem selfless.
 

MDSnowman

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Ed130 said:
Horray! The next Dragon Age will have good graphics!

Any word on whether it will have more than one dungeon?
This!
DA2 was a very good game in many respects (I don't care what anyone says. The personal story of Hawke moving from refugee to champion of Kirkwall was more inspiring than the generic, but epic, salvation of the world plot of DA:O), but they cut a lot of corners to make the game quickly. Dungeon design was just plain lazy.

After my girlfriend played ME3 she said she understood why DA2 was so unpolished, all the real work was going into ME3. I can only hope that they're putting that kind of effort into bringing the Dragon Age franchise back to glory.

What I want is a chance to either play a Quanari main character, or at least a NPC. Their redesign in DA2, and their role in it made me jones to have some proper horn-sporting Quanari violence on my side.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Mark Hardigan said:
I personally, don't think it's a good decision. The original Dragon Age: Origins engine was written from the ground-up specifically for the Dragon Age rules. With Frostbite, they are going to have to rewrite a ton of the engine. I think that this is going to result in an even MORE mod-unfriendly game than DA2 was. And given that the whole choice to make DA2 mod-unfriendly was obvious (So that they could sell their crappy weapon and armor packs and other money-milking DLC), I don't think that will turn out well.

Overall, with how less and less Bioware is seeming to be the Bioware I knew growing up, I'm now taking a wait and see approach. perhaps this will be the game the redeems them. Or perhaps this will be the game that proves all of my fears to be founded.

Overall, I don't see any huge deal with them using frostbite other than the issue I highlighted, where they will have to rewrite a lot of it to create a Dragon Age game with it.
Thanks Mark!
 

AlotFirst

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SajuukKhar said:
PercyBoleyn said:
This has nothing to do with PR propaganda. The differences in quality between old and modern games are astounding. Coincidentally, the modern gaming era also saw a huge shift towards a "production line" style of development. I'm not saying in the past making money wasn't on the "to do" list of developers but as it stands, and taking into account the differences in quality, it's obvious developers were more engaged and publishers less aggressive when it came to things like marketing and tampering.
Ohh please, there were countless old games that were just as crappy, if not even more so, then today.

Older games only seemed to be better on average because people forgot all the countless clones, rehashes, and bad sequels that existed back then, just like how 20 years from now people will forget 95% of all the bad games that exist today.
Sajuuk, I must say that it is refreshing to see such level-headedness like this on these forums. Thank you!
 

Templarixx

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Korten12 said:
Templarixx said:
SajuukKhar said:
Templarixx said:
I am extremely excited about DA 3 because it is supposed to have co-op, but this just helps to add excitement.
why would they put coop in Dragon Age?
Why wouldn't they? It would only add more sales and the game would most likely receive higher ratings for including co-op. Many critics seem to vote down when a game doesn't have a co-op and the critic feels it should.
Co-op could be fun, the second player doesn't make choices and imo, if you find a good friend, they probably wouldn't care and would just like to enjoy being able to play co-op.
Couldn't agree with you more.
 

Frostbite3789

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Kikosemmek said:
Inb4 the art style stays shitty, but just uses shinier graphics.

Seriously, before I actually get excited about DA3, I'd want to know if it's going to suck or not. As in mobs of enemies respawning around my party, or every character being a dark whiny *****, or all the dungeons looking the same. THAT is what needed changing, not the graphics.

I'm taking this news and the fact that EA is committed only to games with MP now to mean that DA3 is going to suck balls, since more attention will be dedicated to the graphical face-lift and the multiplayer component than what actually matters in an RPG: story, characters, campain pacing, and engaging and balanced combat.
Skyrim missed on four of those. Yet it's still considered a good RPG. And even as far as characters it kind of errs. There are a few good ones, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
 

Random Argument Man

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Tigerlily Warrior said:
Random Argument Man said:
Tigerlily Warrior said:
So does this mean DA3 will be a FPS? Anyone??
Did you seriously asked this question or are you just trolling?
Not trolling. Just not sure what to expect with a new engine. Wiki says it has destruction mechanics and has been used for a number of FPS. I'm only familiar with Unreal. I was hoping by learning more about the engine that runs the game to figure out what the game may look like or play. That's all.
Sheesh, knowing that I would've saved myself a lot of trouble and not creating a debate with two other guys...which one told me he was cool-headed but started to get emotionnal when that other guy responded....

Anyhow, I've spoken my piece. Glad everything is more clarified to me.
 

Korten12

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Templarixx said:
Korten12 said:
Templarixx said:
SajuukKhar said:
Templarixx said:
I am extremely excited about DA 3 because it is supposed to have co-op, but this just helps to add excitement.
why would they put coop in Dragon Age?
Why wouldn't they? It would only add more sales and the game would most likely receive higher ratings for including co-op. Many critics seem to vote down when a game doesn't have a co-op and the critic feels it should.
Co-op could be fun, the second player doesn't make choices and imo, if you find a good friend, they probably wouldn't care and would just like to enjoy being able to play co-op.
Couldn't agree with you more.
People always say: "Well my friends won't want to sit through the chatting sections"

But that's not all friends. I know one of my friend who normally just watches would love to play even if he couldn't make choices and such.
 

SajuukKhar

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PercyBoleyn said:
Bullshit. Where's modern gaming's answer to the Infinity Engine series, Monkey Island, Chrono Trigger, Prince of Persia, Sid Meyer's Civilization 3, Mech Warrior, Resident Evil, C&C Red Alert, Duke Nukem 3D, Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Total Anihilation, StarCraft, Warcraft, Grim Fandanngo? And that's just off the top of my head.

The decline in quality of gaming is especially noticeable in the RPG and Shooter genre. How do you go from Half Life, Doom, P:T and BG to the current trend of copying whatever CoD does and calling it a day?
Dude, did you forget that there were so many clones of Doom that the word "doom clone" became its own genre? There were more "Doom clones" then there have been CoD clones, if only because games back then were so cheap to make compared to today.

As for good modern day shooters: Bioshock, STALKER, The Half-Life/Portal metaseries, TF2, Borderlands, CS:GO Just to name a handful, and lets not forget other games in different genres such as The Witcher, Dark/Demon souls, Amnesia, just off of the top of my head.

As for how we get from Doom to CoD..... its easy..... instead of making games who had little to no story, and whose maps were basically giant mazes that send you looking for cardkeys just so you could get into another room of enemies who had little to no justification for exciting beyond "they exist for you to kill them", game makers started to focus more on plot, and giving your actions some sort of meaning.
PercyBoleyn said:
As I've told you before, whilst making money was a goal it wasn't the primary goal. Developers were more concerned with creating a great game than making the next multi million dollar "success" story.

Remember, back then budgets were fairly small. It's funny how, even with the hardware, software and budget limitations at the time developers still managed to create amazing games whereas today we've got games with a budget of upwards to three hundred million dollars that are nothing more than rehashes or attempts at copying whatever the FOTM is.
You mean like how back in the day there were tons of doom clones, and BG clones, copying those games which were the FOTM back then?

Also, having a more limited budget, only means that game devs focused more on how to conserve their budget, so they could make as much profit as possible.
PercyBoleyn said:
Morrowind was a game about exploration. You were basically left to your own devices for the majority of the story. I don't remember caves being as repetitive as you describe them, in fact they were usually complex and filled with goodies. I think you're confusing Morrowind with Skyrim here. The only legimitimate complaint against it would be the combat system which was indeed shitty.
Actually, no, I am defiantly thinking of Morrowind.

Most of the caves and ruins were pretty linear, and the NPCs were mostly dead NPCs that walked back and forth between two places and had the same generic dialog as everyone else.

If anything skyrim's dungeons have more diversity then Morrowind's and skyrim's NPCs, instead of walking between two points over and over, walk between 5-6 points over and over, and have their own dialog.

I would defiantly say that in terms of dungeons, and the vast majority of NPCs, Skyrim has IMPROVED over Morrowind.
PercyBoleyn said:
I disagree. I found Morrowind to be a much more complex and engaging experience than any of the other Elder Scrolls. You just need the right mindset to play it. Some people might not enjoy it's style and that's fine because there were games back then that catered to their needs as well.
Lol, the right mindset...... that's rich.

I love games that give you free exploration of everything, which is why I prefer skyrim over Morrowind, because exploring was far better, and far more rewarding.
PercyBoleyn said:
No, the difference between post DA:O and pre DA:O is EA. They basically shat on Bioware and the Bioware label. The "change in audience" as you put it oversimplifies the impact EA had on Bioware. Bioware became a division of EA immediately after the purchase happened. Post 2008 there was no Bioware, just EA masquerading as it.
And who are you to determine what "real" Bioware is? ohh right..... no one.
PercyBoleyn said:
There is a noticeable difference between the complexity of, say, Mass Effect, which was a simple game to begin with, and Mass Effect 2. I have no problem appealing to a different audience. The thing is, EA didn't try to appeal to a different audience, they basically just gutted everything that made Bioware games great in the past and hoped for the best.
Yes there was a noticeable difference between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2

Mass effect 2 had
-A far better skill system
-Shooter mechanics that worked instead of the "I can stand in one spot and never die" mechanics ME1 had.
-A cover system that WORKED
-Considerably less repetitive, and far more detailed, locations
amongst other things
PercyBoleyn said:
Is that why EA marketted ME2 as a hardcore RPG for the RPG crowd whilst omitting the fact that it was basically a badly made TPS? The same thing happened with Dragon Age 2. Also, what possible audience could EA be targetting the new casual Bioware games at? The casual crowd doesn't care, they're looking for something that you can just pick up, play for a few minutes then stop. The hardcore crowd certainly doesn't care, the things that appealed to them were simplified to hell and back. Who were they trying to actually appeal to then?
I would say Me2 was a more fun TPS then say Gears of War was.

Also, considering that tons of people still buy their games, and tons of people have little to no problem with them, apparently people DO care.
 

Nelle

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Knew it from the first day the Frostbite 2 engine has announced.

EA will lend Dice's own engine to it's other divisions (hence Bioware) like EA made that engine. But oh well, EA owns Dice and i think it's kinda fair.
 

V8 Ninja

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glchicks said:
V8 Ninja said:
I'm calling it; Dragon Age 3 is an FPS.

If that actually happens, I will feel the most hollowed joy I have ever felt in my entire life.
Yes awesome awesome awesome, I want to see Bioware burn to the ground so the industry will take note you do not fuck with the people who made you, I want to see a glorious group of passionate developers rise from their ashes, produce fantastic, labor of love games for 7-10 years and then sell out for a quick payday and then burn to the ground so that a new developer can.... where am I
Well, I was more thinking along the lines of drowning in the delicious but deserved fanboy tears. =/