Game-developer harrassment, what has happened to gamers?

[leodetroit]

I just read an article on polygon (http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups) about the subject, and it made me really depressed.

Why is the gaming community so vile and disgusting, and why hasn't anything been done about the subject? We, who play games, all do it because we like games and we game because we like it, yet every article on a gaming website like IGN, gameinformer, escapist, polygon, pcgamer and kotaku always has a top-comment that is something negative and aimed at developers.

This article made me think about all those times I have made a comment against a developer. For example, why really hate Phil Fish? Sure he could be an asshole, but why go trough the trouble of insulting him? don't we have any empathy?

Are we really so petty and pathetic that we made petitions to try to get some lead writer or developer at Bioware fired for the Mass Effect 3 -controversy? This was a persons job for god's sake! Even if we didn't like the ending to the game, do we still need to send personal death-threats to the people who made it? and if you say yes, please, think about your life and your priorities.

Why do we send death-threats to developers if they tweak something in a patch?
Why do we send insulting messages to people like Don Mattrick because we didn't like the next console? Why must our reactions always be insulting or threatning?

Why did we really vote EA to be the worst company in America? Even if you hate EA, they only make games, and even if they make games just for money at least they haven't screwed people over like a national bank or something more fucked up than that! (and yes, I do remember Simcity, but that's not worth the worst company in America -status).

Why do we hate Activision for Call of Duty? Activision hasn't hurt us personally, they just make games. Yet we need to insult them for a game they make.


And I say we, because all of us are responsible if we don't do anything about it! If we just let all of this evil continue, without trying to stop it, we are all responsible!


Why don't we have any respect for the people who make the things we love? Why can't we be thankful or at least respectful towards those who make the things we love?
Why?

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

Because their always have been a lot of shitty, spoiled and mean-spirited people on this world, and the internet has given them a very dangerous tool: anonymity.

I think there are millions of people, including me, who liked or at least did not mind the ME3 ending; it's just that "not minding" doesn't get you to rage on an internet forum or send angry mails.


My philosophy on this aspect of gaming culture has always been this: we both spend 50 bucks on a pc game. We play it. I love it and have fun for many hours. You hate it and act miserable to yourself and others about it.
I win, you don't. The end.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

This image will never lose its relevance
<img src=http://images.cryhavok.org/d/1967-1/Penny+Arcade+Internet+Fuckwad+Theory.jpg>

Because their always have been a lot of shitty, spoiled and mean-spirited people on this world, and the internet has given them a very dangerous tool: anonymity.

I think there are millions of people, including me, who liked or at least did not mind the ME3 ending; it's just that "not minding" doesn't get you to rage on an internet forum or send angry mails.


My philosophy on this aspect of gaming culture has always been this: we both spend 50 bucks on a pc game. We play it. I love it and have fun for many hours. You hate it and act miserable to yourself and others about it.
I win, you don't. The end.

And what he said.
Also, it is very important to distinguish abuse and criticism. Saying that you didn't enjoy the game because of that and that and saying how it left you disappointed is completely fine thing to say and developer should listen to it. Saying that you will rape developer's family because SMG's fire rate has been reduced is fucking stupid and everyone who says that should get punched in a face.

 

[Aris Khandr]

Because their always have been a lot of shitty, spoiled and mean-spirited people on this world, and the internet has given them a very dangerous tool: anonymity.

Spoiler: THAT Penny Arcade strip. You know which one.

That's pretty much it. We "allow" it because there's really nothing we can do to stop it. People will be jerks on the internet. Just how it always has been and always will be. When I played EverQuest fifteen years ago, people did the exact same things on the forums there. So I made a point of always being active on forums for games I enjoyed, offering the devs at least one supportive voice of appreciation (except for NGE-era Star Wars Galaxies, not even I could support that).

That's the best any of us can do. We can't force people out of the gaming community, and even if we forced them off of one website, they'd just go to another and continue doing the same things. Short of magically changing the world so people aren't assholes, there's no much to be done to stop it.

 

[LetalisK]

Why is the gaming community so vile and disgusting, and why hasn't anything been done about the subject?

Because human beings are vile and disgusting. I know we like to think our community is special, but it's really not. As for what can be done about the subject...not a whole lot. Shaming doesn't really work well because of the anonymity of the internet and any attempts to peel back that anonymity would just piss off everyone and I don't think we want the government to get involved in hunting down anything but the most serious offenders.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think an interesting allegory to this can be found in an article Kotaku posted today as well. Well, not so much in the article, but in the comments section (Yes, I know comments sections are bad places to be).

http://kotaku.com/microsofts-slow-response-to-xbox-harassment-leaves-one-1139807887

In response to a story about a female gamer who received multiple written and voice comments insulting her and threatening things like rape, many of the comments are along the lines of "She should just deal with it because it's the Internet and it's not real." There truly is a belief that saying and doing things you could end up in jail for in person if okay when it's instead done online.. and it's not even a complete case of hand waving it as no big deal, it's literally a cause of supporting the aggressors right to do it.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well it all stems from the fact people forget just what a huge gap there is between IRL communication and that of the internet, developers engage in what can only be equated to personal interactions with people they know nothing about and then expect a reasonable response... that is like walking down dark alleyways every day, damn right you are gonna get shanked.
Just because someone can interact with you doesn't mean they have anything of value to contribute, 99% of the time they really fucking don't and you shouldn't engage or encourage these people, ever.

The added horror of internet is that at the same time trolls are doing a global stage performance which not only encourages them to be the top ass but teaches others what to do and join in, such things as comment rating is the best way to have a shitstorm spiral out of control equally by people who want to troll and those who want to fend them off.

Simply remove the stage for these people and we will be golden, in the real world an ass is immediately excluded from a social group thus forced to atone and correct himself to continue socializing, this should be no different on the internet, that is something communication sited grossly underestimate and offer next to no options for filtering when they should be the primary focus in any healthy community.

 

[Juk3n]

People are disgusting, and on the 'net faceless and free to be disgusting to other people.

BUT! (not a justification, just a reason) It's only the past few years developers and publishers have been churning out broken games. No one ever moaned because something worked perfectly and was hassle-free right?

If you're going to make a game, and before you even start production your entire core fanbase says "that's great but we DON'T want to see 'x' back in the game please it ruined 'y'. Best to listen to the guys that - with their sales - stopped you being closed down for not selling enough.

 

[WoW Killer]

It's only the past few years developers and publishers have been churning out broken games.

Really?

What about the 1984 ZX Spectrum release Jet Set Willy [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Set_Willy]?

Spoiler: Death Loops

Willy loses a life if he touches an enemy or falls too far, and he is returned to the point at which he entered the room. This may lead to a game-ending situation in which Willy repeatedly falls from a height, losing all lives in succession.

Spoiler: The Attic Bug

As originally released, the game could not be completed due to several bugs. Although actually four completely unrelated issues, they became known collectively as "The Attic Bug". After the player entered the room The Attic, various rooms would undergo corruption on all subsequent game plays, including all monsters disappearing from The Chapel, and other screens triggering instant death. This was caused by an error in the path of an arrow in The Attic, resulting in the sprite traveling past the end of the Spectrum's video memory and overwriting crucial game data instead. This bears similarities to a buffer overflow, and as such is an early example of such an error - and the problems it can cause.

Initially Software Projects attempted to pass this bug off as an intentional feature to make the game more difficult, claiming that the rooms in question were filled with poison gas. However, they later rescinded this claim and issued a set of POKEs to correct the flaws.

Other bugs included a case where an item under The Conservatory Roof was placed too close to both the screen entrance and a killer object making it impossible to collect. The Software Projects fix removed the killer object. There was also an invisible and impossible to reach item in First Landing. The Software Projects fix relocated the item to The Hall - although some fixes relocated the object to The Bathroom where it became visible as another tap item, by poking value 33, instead of 11.

The Banyan Tree was impassable in an upward direction - the Software Projects fix changed the status of an essential block from solid to passable.

Spoiler: And yet the game is regarded as a classic

The game was number one in the UK Spectrum sales chart for several months, until it was replaced by Sabre Wulf. The ZX Spectrum version was voted the 6th best game of all time in a special issue of Your Sinclair magazine in 2004.

I think maybe gamers have just gotten more entitled. If I'd played a game even half as good as Mass Effect 3 when I was a kid I'd have thought it was a miracle. Heck, I'd have thought Big Rigs was a miracle back then (which is 10 years old by the way, so what exactly counts as "the past few years"?).

 

[GladiatorUA]

I just read an article on polygon (http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups) about the subject, and it made me really depressed.

It really shouldn't

Why is the gaming community so vile and disgusting, and why hasn't anything been done about the subject? We, who play games, all do it because we like games and we game because we like it, yet every article on a gaming website like IGN, gameinformer, escapist, polygon, pcgamer and kotaku always has a top-comment that is something negative and aimed at developers.

It's really not. Just a vocal minority. Let's say it's one in a thousand. If your game has one million sales, it's one thousand really vocal shitty people that will seek you out and leave a really bad comment if it's not that hard. A part of that thousand is in addition crazy and will harass the dev even if it's not that easy. Let's say one in ten thousand. 0.01% or even 0.1% doesn't make a community vile or disgusting.

This article made me think about all those times I have made a comment against a developer. For example, why really hate Phil Fish? Sure he could be an asshole, but why go trough the trouble of insulting him? don't we have any empathy?

Don't let it stroke your ego. You are insignificant. Unless you sent your comments directly to the person's email, twitter or facebook, there is a huge chance they never read it. If they did, they probably sought out the feedback(not yours in particular), and any feedback that respects boundaries is good.

Are we really so petty and pathetic that we made petitions to try to get some lead writer or developer at Bioware fired for the Mass Effect 3 -controversy? This was a persons job for god's sake! Even if we didn't like the ending to the game, do we still need to send personal death-threats to the people who made it? and if you say yes, please, think about your life and your priorities.

Petition is OK. Death threats - not OK. The shitty ending for a big trilogy is screw up that should get a person fired. If no one says anything about it, the industry is encouraged to make shitty endings. So shit all over it. But respect boundaries. Death threats are not OK. Personal hate mail is not OK. Cyber-stalking and harassment are not OK.

Why did we really vote EA to be the worst company in America? Even if you hate EA, they only make games, and even if they make games just for money at least they haven't screwed people over like a national bank or something more fucked up than that! (and yes, I do remember Simcity, but that's not worth the worst company in America -status).

Because it was an internet poll. The priorities of community are different. Not everyone lives in America or has been in some way involved with represented companies. But a lot of people directly experienced and/or observed EA fiascoes. The poll is irrelevant. Their serious response was idiotic.

And I say we, because all of us are responsible if we don't do anything about it! If we just let all of this evil continue, without trying to stop it, we are all responsible!

Take the pitchforks! Burn the haters!
If you take this all this seriously you are either misguided or have problem.

 

[votemarvel]

The gamers haven't changed in the slightest, the internet just provides a greater avenue for contact.

Whereas before they were complaining by hand written letter to games magazines or the companies, now it is a simple email or Twitter post away.

 

[Andy Shandy]

The widespread use of the internet, especially with social networks and internet anonymity, people think it's fine for them to send abuse to developers when they don't like something.

To be fair though, not all of those things you mentioned are inherently bad. Some can be used to good effect, if used CORRECTLY and not abused.

 

[Hero of Lime]

Lots of gamers are jerks, but while the problem is big enough notice, the craziest responses are in the minority by a large margin. Granted a comments section about games can cause a huge flame war but the exact same thing happens with a comment section about politics, religion, sports, etc. If people have strong opinions, they will lash out, and the internet gives them anonymity and a microphone all at the same time.

The widespread use of the internet, especially with social networks and internet anonymity, people think it's fine for them to send abuse to developers when they don't like something.

To be fair though, not all of those things you mentioned are inherently bad. Some can be used to good effect, if used CORRECTLY and not abused.

Exactly, as long as there is constructive criticism to be had, being able to reach out to developers directly is great. However, it can and usually is abused, in some horrible ways too sometimes.

 

[broca]

I'm really confused about your use of the term "gaming community". The gaming community includes people from around the around the world (often not speaking english), from casual to hardcore gamer, playing every possible genre on both consoles and pc. Even leaving aside mobile gaming, thats a huge, extremely diverse group of people to make sweeping judgments about based on the actions of a in comparison extremely small number of idiots and people with serious problems.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

This image will never lose its relevance
<img src=http://images.cryhavok.org/d/1967-1/Penny+Arcade+Internet+Fuckwad+Theory.jpg>

That pretty much sums it up right there. Although even considering the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory it still baffles me that there are those that send death threats to developers over petty things like game endings or other things they didn't like. And on that topic, death threats??? WTF is the matter with these people??
Personally the only time I ever say anything disparaging against an individual developer (as opposed to a company) is when they say something bafflingly stupid like Cliffy B. has a tendency to do. I won't insult or attack them for their work.

Fans are, by definition, fanatical.

Apparently to the point where they need to be locked in padded rooms and not allowed anywhere near any sharp objects.

 

[SilverBullets000]

A lot of people have already said anonymity leads to people being over zealous in voicing their displeasure, so I don't think I need to repeat that. It's stupid, but ignorable. I much rather have them have the ability to do it rather than have them censored because it's supposedly more polite, especially since some people have a hard time telling criticisms and insults apart from one another.
I think a smaller part of the problem is our focus on hyperbolic statements for shock/comedy value rather than trying to discuss the problem, but that's beside the point. Death/rape threats aren't funny and are inappropriate, but I don't recant my earlier statement on that matter.

I also think it's because we have something of a victim complex truth be told, though I guess calling it that could be wording it a bit harshly, even if I personally think it's somewhat justified. DmC's fans were ignored when they voiced their concerns, Megaman's fans haven't seen a proper game in years, entire genres are literally gone from the consoles (get your PC master race comments out of your systems, guys), games are cancelled on a publisher's whim, and many many other problems. Worse, I find that we tend to focus on the negative aspects of our own releases, and unintentionally lead them down a path of homogenization because of it.

Basically, I think it's a problem that works on both ends. Publishers want to milk franchises, changing them into something unrecognizable, and then the people who used to follow the franchises get disillusioned and jaded, leaving them to look for and ultimately fail to find anything else, leaving them to seethe about that change and become more reactionary to future changes. I also think that's one of the reasons nostalgia is such a powerful thing in gaming communities.

 

[Comocat]

Negative stories generate more page clicks. Would you rather read "people say mostly nice things or nothing at all about CoD" or "developer receives death threats"? Sure I get that saying bad things about a developer probably makes them sad. But consider that according to Wikipedia there are over 40 million active CoD players (over every title) how is this news worthy? Consider being a teacher, police officer, politician, or banker where your job is essentially people crapping on you all day and get back to me about having your wittle feewings hurt.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

It happens across the board, its just more obvious when its written down. How many people have never been abused in there workplace no matter what that work place is? To be honest I care far more about the abuse that emergency services and health care workers get than I do about whatever is aimed at game devs

 

[Madman123456]

Mr. Fish wasn't all that friendly in his dialogues. Actually, he was as abusive as the worst of them, so good Riddance.
He didn't snap once when the millionth troll finally got under his skin, he made rather disagreeable Statements all the time.
He was as vile as the gamer side was and so nothing worthwhile was lost. The side gamers find themselves on wouldn't take much worthwhile with it if it where to go away.