Game Dogs: Episode Four: Satan

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J-Alfred

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Jul 28, 2009
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daedrick said:
Alright, I will make something more constructive since Russ is not happy. Here it goes. It may sound as a rant, but every rant have a suggestion attached to it. Here it goes.

Warning: Spelling and sentence construction will probably be quite ugly. But, heh, I speak french originaly. You have been warned.

Characters-------------------------

Gary; If he really want to fire people, and dont do it, and he do not really want to fire them. He is just like the evil guys in the kid's series. Not truely evil, never doing everything they can to get rid of the good guys. Anyway, his dialogue, as stated multiple times, is not funny. Its not a joke. He is just stating, over and over, that he will fire them. No joke in that sentence, just a statement. What he need to do is try to make them fail, not just wish they fail, do everything he can to make them fail... Just like the coyote and the road runner. At least that would be better than simply stating the 3 same words over and over.

Roger; Get rid of him, there is absolutly nothing funny about him. If someone need to be fired, its him. That guy, or dog if you will, is the best animated representation of how funny it is to watch paint dry. If you replaced him with a strayman sitting in his chair and never contributing anything to the show then nobody would ever notice. Because he bring absolutly ZERO energy to the show. Its just a boring nerd with nothing to say... and we see enough of these everyday. Hell, put BOB in his chair, and keep the very intelligent smooth attittude that he have now and the episode will improve greatly.

Bethany; Why dont you give her a personnality, I mean, if her personnality is to ask everyone to tell her what to do then she have none. Every time she open the mouth its to ask; What do I do, I dont know how to do it, tell me what to do, I havent done anything in my life, What kind of thing is that and so on. Anyway, girls tend to be very ''loud'', they disagree, they argues, they let their personnality out, they yell, they are angry, they dont let people walk on their feet, they cry, they blackmail... Why dont you give her a ***** personality. Hell, any personality will do! The bicth, the tease, the spoiled, the demanding, the perfectionnist...

Chet: He is cool and come with ideas. What else? He, also, need a personnality. Why dont you make him obsessed with sex? Always trying to get bethany into his bed... Hell thats just an idea, can be anything. Or make him very irresponsible, sleep on the job, smoke weed, he party every night or he game every night and never sleep. Cannot be the super stressed guy because gary is that guy.

I dont what kind of people you hang with, but they are very bland. Instead why dont you look at people you would never hang with, the outgoing and gregarious people. The people with stuff happening in their lifes. The kind of things that is fun to watch because you despite them or because you envy them. You know?

Bob: Bob is fine, I enjoy him, people enjoy him. Its my favorite character.

Yenn: I dont personaly like that character, but some people do. Its a cliche in my opinion but if the people like him the way he is, then lets leave him that way.

General------------------------

The animations doesnt bother me personnaly, Im used to it. But I have to agree about the facial expressions. It might be because they are dogs, but there is not a lot of emotions emanate out of their faces.

So, use the tails... When the tail is held high, shows that the dog is alert; Tail between the legs means that the dog is afraid. If the fur on the tail is also bristled, the dog is saying they are willing to defend. Small, slow wags of the tail says the dog is questioning things around them. Either they aren't sure if the target dog or person is friendly, or they aren't sure what is going on or what is expected of them. Large, fast wags of the tail may be a sign of a happy or excited dog,

Remove the ''this was animated in front of a live audiance''. If you do find it funny unlike most of us, it still imply that the ''live audience'' does'nt find it funny at all since there are no canned laugh going off ever. So it imply that its not funny. Dont remember who stated that on what page, but I agree with them completly.

Change the ''Are you insane'' comment of Gary every episodes so it become a running gag just like the simpson with bart in the classroom or the family on the couch. If you dont like that idea, I suggest that you simply remove it since it bring nothing to the episodes but repetition and irritate the most part of viewers. I dont know if you play video games, I hope you do, but in video games the sounds repeating over and over tend to irritate the players... so its not really a good idea to put that in your animations. (fire in the hole, fire in the hole, fire in the hole, fire in the hole; that kind of stuff)

Conclusion--------------------------------

If you dont want to consider these suggestions seriusly and continu the way you are going. Then congratz, you succesfully made a children serie on an adult website. At least, I think its for adults... well, mature gamers. But are gamers matures at all? Thats whe question!
Oh, hurray for having to eat my own words... I suppose I owe you an apology, daedrick, for my previous message. I didn't realize that you later added some constructive criticism to validate your earlier statements, and I didn't realize that your spelling/grammar errors were due to English not being your first language. I apologize for everything I said in my first comment, and hope that you are not too offended by my own hasty comment. I pride myself on not trolling on this forum, and having actually trolled only to find my trolling COMPLETELY unjustified is a very awkward and embarrassing position to find myself in. Again, I offer my sincerest apologies.
 

CoronaryThrombosis

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Apr 15, 2009
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When I watch Game Dogs I feel like I'm watching NASCAR: Some people must like it because it's still here, but I absolutely don't get it.
 

Russ Pitts

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May 1, 2006
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YukoValis said:
who said it was suppose to be funny? No one. I find it entertaining.
Yeah, well funny would be good, sure. And it is great to hear from people in the comments and PM who genuinely do think it's funny. So although - for whatever reason - this show seems to be generating a great deal of negative energy, we do know that people are getting it and enjoying it.

Listen, I know you will never please everyone all the time. Hell, even our most popular shows get negative comments and criticism. So as long as we're brightening some people's day with this, I'm happy. Yes, we will listen to feedback and do what we can to please those of you who very vocally have insisted upon changes, but at the end of the day, it will be what it will be.

But as far as funny, as another poster said, it's not non-stop hilarity like some of our shows and that's by design. Most people think comedy is easy because they can make their mates laugh, but making people who know you and have a personal investment in being your friend, and with whom you share interests and a cultural lexicon laugh is the easiest thing in the world. Making people who don't know you or care about you and who come from vastly different background and share no interests with you laugh is quite challenging.

Another challenge to making comedy entertainment is making something that's both funny and meaningful in some way. Game Dogs, unlike some of our shows, has a plot. It has characters, it has - I hope - meaning. If we find that, at the end of the day, we tried something that didn't work,. we'll either make changes or quit. But so far we've published 20 minutes worth of content for this show. That's barely a TV show's worth. I think we have some room left yet to see what happens, and I hope you guys will stick with us.
 

Russ Pitts

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May 1, 2006
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Suskie said:
Some of the people here are dicks; most of them aren't. They're simply unsatisfied with the show and they're letting you know. If it's really getting to you (and don't pretend it isn't), then either take these comments seriously or make good on your promise to send the show in a promising direction.
Dude, of course it?s getting to me! Man you?d have to be a robot to not be affected by negative comments and criticism of something you created and put out there for people to see. That said, I?ve been creating and putting stuff out there for people to see for long enough to know, as I said before, you can?t please everyone.

So yeah from the point of view of ?I made this and I want people to like it,? sure it?s a bummer that some folks are so down on it. But when you do this for a living, as I have for the past 20 years or so, you learn very quickly that some criticism simply can?t be answered because some expectations simply can?t be met. So you learn to let that sort of criticism flow around you and through you and you get on with your life.
 

Russ Pitts

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May 1, 2006
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ganpondorodf said:
Russ Pitts said:
daedrick said:
See? Now that, class, is how to give criticism. *clap, clap*

I'll keep all that in mind, daedrick. Thanks for playing.
What, by just feeding you an essay on ideas you could use?
You're just jealous you didn't get claps. ;)

Here's your claps: *clap, clap*

Sorry to leave you hanging. :)
 

DJShire

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Sep 27, 2008
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I've tried very hard to like this series....but nope, I'm done guys, good attempt, but I'm just not finding the funny.
 

CK76

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Sep 25, 2009
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Well, given that Russ Pitts does seem to genuinely care I'll try my best to help or at least offer a view.

The Escapist gives us short shows, roughly five minutes. This sets a structure for most of the content to be quicker with little room to breath. Characterization rarely comes through subtle moments given animation budget and time constraints. It has to be shown and often quickly through dialog. I knew within one episode that Yahtzee or Sir Schmoopy had potential and character that drew me in and wanted more. It's hard for me to characterize anyone on this show, it is more bland than bad.

If you made this show a 30 minute bi-monthly show, I could see how going at it from a completely different angle than Zero Punctuation or other new show Doralius. As is, the show Game Dogs feels out of place and that is why in earlier episode thread I thought a reworking would help. Not one to dump on a show for the sake of it and I've enjoyed most of this site's content.

It would be interesting to see making of, interviews and thought process of what you're going for here and dealing with fan response. I'd honestly give a show much more time if people working on it did show they care and respond to criticisms as you've done some here.

Given you're a Emerson fan Russ, "A man of genius is privileged only as far as he is genius. His dullness is as insupportable as any other dullness."

Seem like nice enough fellow, good luck.
 

Russ Pitts

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May 1, 2006
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CK76 said:
Well, given that Russ Pitts does seem to genuinely care I'll try my best to help or at least offer a view.

The Escapist gives us short shows, roughly five minutes. This sets a structure for most of the content to be quicker with little room to breath. Characterization rarely comes through subtle moments given animation budget and time constraints. It has to be shown and often quickly through dialog. I knew within one episode that Yahtzee or Sir Schmoopy had potential and character that drew me in and wanted more. It's hard for me to characterize anyone on this show, it is more bland than bad.

If you made this show a 30 minute bi-monthly show, I could see how going at it from a completely different angle than Zero Punctuation or other new show Doralius. As is, the show Game Dogs feels out of place and that is why in earlier episode thread I thought a reworking would help. Not one to dump on a show for the sake of it and I've enjoyed most of this site's content.

It would be interesting to see making of, interviews and thought process of what you're going for here and dealing with fan response. I'd honestly give a show much more time if people working on it did show they care and respond to criticisms as you've done some here.

Given you're a Emerson fan Russ, "A man of genius is privileged only as far as he is genius. His dullness is as insupportable as any other dullness."

Seem like nice enough fellow, good luck.
these are all great comments. Thanks for taking the time. Great Emerson quote, too. I hope we can still win you over.

I can see why you might think I don't care, but I can assure you I do. I wouldn't be in here if I didn't.
 

Boba Frag

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Dec 11, 2009
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Abedeus said:
Ugh. A single time I smiled was when Bob started talking.

Also, you can't even animate Garry/Gary's moving legs? Or jumping? Seriously?
I agree... that was rather poor animation. ]

However, that episode did seem to be quite an improvement. Still mediocre, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Just don't bring back Mr.Yee. Ever.
And stop with the "fired, fired, fired" all the time. It's gotten very, very old.
Also- does your intro really have to be as long as it is? That's 30 seconds of pure boring text and pictures of office crap that coulfd be used to flesh out the characters or move the plot in a more recognisable direction.

Oh, and I hope this is taken as constructive criticism.
 

jebbo

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Jul 17, 2009
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I just don't get this. Episode 3 was OK with the Mr. Yee character but that basically stole the show, the main characters just feel bland. Nothing seems to be happening in these little stories; the plot's just moved to we now have to make a game on Satanism, how do I draw Satan? Boring. Apocalypse Lane manages to keep my interest peaked for 5 minutes every time even on a not so funny episode but I'm totally bored of this now. It all seems a little rushed plus it just really isnt that funny (but then again I dont like 80's style sitcoms much anyway)
 

Vimbert

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Aug 15, 2009
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I would like to echo... What exactly are the methods other than comments for determining how the show is doing? Simple view count isn't a great indicator, unless you don't mind that most of the audience is coming just for the "So Bad It's Good" appeal. I remember when a lot of people trashed Apocalypse Lane for being flat and uninteresting in its early days. I saw promise and stayed with it.

This series? Not so much. Your audience will likely consist of mostly MST3K'ers or furries. If you're fine with it, push ahead- it'd be somewhat funny if a show deliberately tried to be bland and bad.

If you intend to be quality, however, add a little more of a hook- the supporting cast is fairly interesting, so pushing some of the main characters into the background may help a bit. Also, the beef with the intro is legitimate- the boss character is not funny. At all. "Are you insane?" No, but I will be if I hear that ad infinitum. Every character is a little too one-dimensional; I know it's somewhat early in the series, but others have established interesting characters much sooner. Hell, Apocalypse Lane, for instance: Steve quickly became more than just an everyman with an odd shoulder growth.

Also, I don't think anyone else has touched on this- Chet's "visionary" statements (particularly one in a past episode where he just described The Legend of Zelda) eat up a lot of time that could be spent further developing the characters, story, and even some more jokes. I want to like this show. I really do. The concept (in general... I'm not so crazy about the anthro part) sounds solid, and I think a lot of fun could be had in this setting.
 

Garaw

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Sep 22, 2009
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CaptainCrunch said:
That said, dogs generally lack variety in facial expression. They communicate with body language - posture and tail motion accounts for 95%, and the other 5% is eyebrows, ears, and a varied degree of "growl snout." Hang out with a dog for a while, and really pay attention to the face. You'll see what I mean.
I'm not disparaging the animation skills of you or anyone you work with - I know it must take a lot of work, and it's getting the point across. But I really hope you're not going to try and haul out an anemic excuse like that when people criticize it.

Yeah, dogs don't have much in the way of facial expressions. They also don't talk, walk on two legs, work in offices, wear clothes, or make sandwiches. You're obviously not going for scientifically accurate dogs here, so why apply realism to something as vital to animation as facial expressions?

Like the OP said, it's necessary for empathy on the part of a human, non-canine audience. If the episodes contained no dialogue, you could technically make the argument of WELL DOGS DON'T TALK NOW DO THEY, but it wouldn't make for an interesting series. Neither does looking at flat-affect cartoon characters.
 

Yokai

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Oct 31, 2008
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George Palmer said:
GamingAwesome1 said:
I'm gonna say this until the dude animating this gets it right.
Are you an animator?
It doesn't require extensive knowledge of animation to spot something like that. Anyhow, he may or may not be an animator, but I am, and I have to say the facial expressions are quite bland. I understand you guys have a tight deadline to work with, but it would really help this show if the characters reacted to each other a little more. Exaggerate! I'd much rather watch characters with ridiculously over-the-top reactions in the style of Egoraptor's Awesome Series than see them sit around the table and flap their mouths at each other with deadpan expressions. Even the characters don't seem to be laughing at the jokes, to say nothing of the viewers. It doesn't take loads of extra work like, say, proper lip syncing would, and like I said, giving the characters extra expressions would really help raise the quality level--and hopefully the humor--of the show as a whole.
 

jamescorck

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Jan 25, 2010
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Another entertaining episode, indeed.
It wasn't as funny as Mr. Yee, but I guess you guys are going more for the entertaining part rather than the comedy part. Cliffhangers are always a good way to keep you hooked. But please, check the animation. A little bit of knees flexing will be appreciated.