Game of Thrones - Well, Stannis fans, what do you think of him NOW? (Spoilers)

Recommended Videos

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
4,896
0
0
The main issue I have with it (yes, I'm almost on board with Stannis potentially doing this in the books, given the right circumstance) is that the show doesn't do a good job of conveying the situation that leads up to the burning or explaining the prophecy.

We see some bad weather and burnt supplies. We are also reminded that King's blood is powerful (even though Balon Greyjoy is still alive). That's it.

I often welcome changes the showrunners make because I like not knowing what will happen next. When they do it badly though, I will absolutely complain about it.

For me, this has been the worst season. They've managed to:
Make Danny no better than the Mad King
Kill off Baristan, but keep the Grey Worm love stuff
Butcher Stannis' story line.
Remove the awesome stuff with House Manderly and Mance in favour of Ramsay being a dick, Theon crying even more, and Sansa being boring.
Remove Jaime's great character development in the Riverlands in favour of sending him to Dorne for the most boring storyline yet. Maybe they realized that the Dorne stuff in the books wasn't too exciting and thought this would spice it up. I thought they made it much worse.

Ugh.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
K12 said:
I avoid doing the whole "OMG not like the books" thing. People who complain about Brienne fighting the Hound
To be fair, the Hound and Arya have this extended travel, which is a great part of the book(And worked pretty well in the show), and then the Hound is similarly left for dead, leading to some really interesting stuff, which had a lot of hints and led to a lot of speculation about his ultimate fate, which seems to have been removed in the place of having a horrible misunderstanding where they fight, which really doesn't make much sense, since the Hound and Brienne essentially want to help the Stark girls.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
13,054
6,748
118
Country
United Kingdom
elvor0 said:
Actually, GRRM did actually tell the writers to do it, and
has said he was going to burn Shiereen in the books too in the future, he just wanted it to happen here in the TV show, likely because the timelines are all shown cocurrently on GoT as opposed to some characters then others later like with the books.
As said before, even if Shireen does burn in the book, it cannot happen in the same circumstances, and some (including myself) believe she may well die but that Stannis himself won't be involved. It's very possible the "When George told us about it" line may refer just to Shireen's burning, not to Stannis' culpability.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
RedDeadFred said:
...the Dorne stuff in the books wasn't too exciting and thought this would spice it up. I thought they made it much worse.
The Dorne storyline this season has been nothing short of an embarrassment. The fight choreography was amateurish, the writing has vacillated between aimless and bracingly stupid, the acting has been poor, the characterizations inconsistent...the list goes on and on.

They spent a month on the battle sequence from Hardhome. They spent less than a week on the entire Dornish storyline (they were only able to rent the villa for that long). It shows.

Still doesn't explain the horrendous writing though, although that is basically covered when you accept the reality that the off-book writing has always been horrendous.

Loonyyy said:
...since the Hound and Brienne essentially want to help the Stark girls.
The Hound wanted to help The Hound. He had a soft spot for Sansa in particular, but it never amounted to much. Sandor Clegane was a great many things, but helpful father figure was not one of them.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
The Hound wanted to help The Hound. He had a soft spot for Sansa in particular, but it never amounted to much. Sandor Clegane was a great many things, but helpful father figure was not one of them.
Well, yeah, but in the Hound's case, he was taking Arya to where she'd be safe, and that was helping him. Notably, she wasn't particularly inclined to be taken to either the Tullys or the Arryns.

Brienne was trying to rescue the Stark girls and reunite them with their surviving family, as was the Hound (Obviously for personal reasons, at least initially, but I'd like to believe that he developed some affection for Arya, in his own twisted way), so their fight in the show, to me, made pretty little sense. Sort of a case of, these are the two biggest badasses in the series, wouldn't it be cool to see them fight?

And I'm disappointed that Brienne's quest was changed, and the Hound's ultimate fate was removed. Although maybe it improves in the latest series, I haven't seen it yet, Australian broadcast sucks. HBO, this is why Australia pirates your show so much.

It's been a while since I read it, but I was a fan of the idea that the Hound had become one of the monks, who told Brienne of his death, I can't remember who they were off the top of my head, but there was speculation that he was the tall figure who was digging graves. I thought that was a fitting end to an arc of sorts, where he has this affection for Sansa, which he then projects onto Arya, and essentially gives up on fighting for any side in particular, sort of a fuck this shit I'm out.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Loonyyy said:
Brienne was trying to rescue the Stark girls and reunite them with their surviving family, as was the Hound (Obviously for personal reasons, at least initially, but I'd like to believe that he developed some affection for Arya, in his own twisted way), so their fight in the show, to me, made pretty little sense. Sort of a case of, these are the two biggest badasses in the series, wouldn't it be cool to see them fight?
I thought it was a pretty cool fight, so even though it was hugely nonsensical, it made for good television. It was the kind of deviation I was willing to forgive, like the Arya/Tywin scenes (which were pretty bad, but elevated by the presence of Charles Dance).

Loonyyy said:
It's been a while since I read it, but I was a fan of the idea that the Hound had become one of the monks, who told Brienne of his death, I can't remember who they were off the top of my head, but there was speculation that he was the tall figure who was digging graves. I thought that was a fitting end to an arc of sorts, where he has this affection for Sansa, which he then projects onto Arya, and essentially gives up on fighting for any side in particular, sort of a fuck this shit I'm out.
Oh man, I don't even think that's an "idea". I think that is very evidently what happened. Much like R+L=J there's too many clues for it to be viewed as speculation.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
I thought it was a pretty cool fight, so even though it was hugely nonsensical, it made for good television. It was the kind of deviation I was willing to forgive, like the Arya/Tywin scenes (which were pretty bad, but elevated by the presence of Charles Dance).
It was a cool fight, but I couldn't get into it, because I was just going, no, now one of them's going to have to die, and that's going to be the Hound, because Brienne has all this other shit to do, why are they fighting, oh god, it's like the shitty sitcom writing of "Oh no, I've booked two people at the same time, what will I do?" dumb misunderstanding. Outside of that, it's a fairly cool fight between two titanic badasses, but it was just too much for me to get invested in.

Oh man, I don't even think that's an "idea". I think that is very evidently what happened. Much like R+L=J there's too many clues for it to be viewed as speculation.
Well, yeah. The Hound's one of my favourite characters, and I enjoyed his depiction in the show (High point being the battle of the Blackwater, which was just awesome). I liked that ending for him, and it sort of meshed with a bunch of themes I felt were running through there, and in particular, related to his character, about the cycle of violence, redemption, and how involvement in the bullshit politics of the land is, for the underlings of the various egotistical assholes struggling to control the land, a good way to die badly. Fuck the king.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Loonyyy said:
It was a cool fight, but I couldn't get into it, because I was just going, no, now one of them's going to have to die, and that's going to be the Hound, because Brienne has all this other shit to do, why are they fighting, oh god, it's like the shitty sitcom writing of "Oh no, I've booked two people at the same time, what will I do?" dumb misunderstanding. Outside of that, it's a fairly cool fight between two titanic badasses, but it was just too much for me to get invested in.
I can empathize. More than once this season the show has deviated so hard (and so pointlessly) I've turned to the GF and said "What the fuck am I watching?" out loud.

On the "shitty sitcom coincidence" front, the photo finish arrival of the Sand Snakes and Jaime/Bronn to kill/rescue Myrcella was positively hilarious, and the choreography of the ensuing fight just compounded it. It just needed some Big Top or Benny Hill music to send it over the edge.

Loonyyy said:
Well, yeah. The Hound's one of my favourite characters, and I enjoyed his depiction in the show (High point being the battle of the Blackwater, which was just awesome). I liked that ending for him, and it sort of meshed with a bunch of themes I felt were running through there, and in particular, related to his character, about the cycle of violence, redemption, and how involvement in the bullshit politics of the land is, for the underlings of the various egotistical assholes struggling to control the land, a good way to die badly. Fuck the king.
I'd have traded Charles Dance reading Meribald's Ninepenny Kings monologue for this whole misbegotten season.

Back on the road, the septon said, "We would do well to keep a watch tonight, my friends. The villagers say they've seen three broken men skulking round the dunes, west of the old watchtower."

"Only three?" Ser Hyle smiled. "Three is honey to our swordswench. They're not like to trouble armed men."

"Unless they're starving," the septon said. "There is food in these marshes, but only for those with the eyes to find it, and these men are strangers here, survivors from some battle. If they should accost us, ser, I beg you, leave them to me."

"What will you do with them?"

"Feed them. Ask them to confess their sins, so that I might forgive them. Invite them to come with us to the Quiet Isle."

"That's as good as inviting them to slit our throats as we sleep," Hyle Hunt replied. "Lord Randyll has better ways to deal with broken men-steel and hempen rope."

"Ser? My lady?" said Podrick. "Is a broken man an outlaw?"

"More or less," Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed. "More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They've heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

"Then they get a taste of battle.

"For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they've been gutted by an axe.

"They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that's still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

"If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they're fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it's just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don't know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they're fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world?

"And the man breaks.

"He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them?but he should pity them as well."

When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, "How old were you when they marched you off to war?"

"Why, no older than your boy," Meribald replied. "Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he'd stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape."

"The War of the Ninepenny Kings?" asked Hyle Hunt.

"So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was."
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
I can empathize. More than once this season the show has deviated so hard (and so pointlessly) I've turned to the GF and said "What the fuck am I watching?" out loud.

On the "shitty sitcom coincidence" front, the photo finish arrival of the Sand Snakes and Jaime/Bronn to kill/rescue Myrcella was positively hilarious, and the choreography of the ensuing fight just compounded it. It just needed some Big Top or Benny Hill music to send it over the edge.
Yeah, I've heard the Dorne stuff is rubbish. Having seen the screens that their social media people keep putting up, I don't doubt it. In the books it was, to my reading, poorly developed and given less time that it could have been, but I didn't mind, because it felt more alien, and being out of your depth there actually conveyed the sense of a different culture well.

And I'm real sick of seeing ads where Dany talks of "Breaking the wheel". I've only seen the episode where that takes place, think it was Hardhome, and god, that's fucking awful dialogue there, just so lacking in self awareness. All these other families depose each other, and it's a cycle of war that destroys the land, and it's so horrible. So I plan to do the exact same, but since I'm such a badass, I will end this cycle, by engaging with it in exactly the same way. I mean really. As if Robb Stark, Renly Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Joffrey and the Lannisters, or anyone else in the war doesn't think they're breaking the wheel, that they'll win, and then rule from a position of strength, not be deposed, and restore peace. Show Dany is as bad as book Dany becomes in the later books, but at least then I didn't have to see it being presented as if it was some epic moment, some awesome speech. And then Tyrion, giver of awesome speeches, just lets her bounce this utter BS off him. He wouldn't have taken that from Joffrey, that's for sure. I think that the writers are still labouring under the impression that Dany is some sort of hero.

I'd have traded Charles Dance reading Meribald's Ninepenny Kings monologue for this whole misbegotten season.

Back on the road, the septon said, "We would do well to keep a watch tonight, my friends. The villagers say they've seen three broken men skulking round the dunes, west of the old watchtower."

"Only three?" Ser Hyle smiled. "Three is honey to our swordswench. They're not like to trouble armed men."

"Unless they're starving," the septon said. "There is food in these marshes, but only for those with the eyes to find it, and these men are strangers here, survivors from some battle. If they should accost us, ser, I beg you, leave them to me."

"What will you do with them?"

"Feed them. Ask them to confess their sins, so that I might forgive them. Invite them to come with us to the Quiet Isle."

"That's as good as inviting them to slit our throats as we sleep," Hyle Hunt replied. "Lord Randyll has better ways to deal with broken men-steel and hempen rope."

"Ser? My lady?" said Podrick. "Is a broken man an outlaw?"

"More or less," Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed. "More less than more. There are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord, but most outlaws are more like this ravening Hound than they are the lightning lord. They are evil men, driven by greed, soured by malice, despising the gods and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They've heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.

"Then they get a taste of battle.

"For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they've been gutted by an axe.

"They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that's still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.

"If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they're fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chickens, and from there it's just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don't know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they're fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world?

"And the man breaks.

"He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them?but he should pity them as well."

When Meribald was finished a profound silence fell upon their little band. Brienne could hear the wind rustling through a clump of pussywillows, and farther off the faint cry of a loon. She could hear Dog panting softly as he loped along beside the septon and his donkey, tongue lolling from his mouth. The quiet stretched and stretched, until finally she said, "How old were you when they marched you off to war?"

"Why, no older than your boy," Meribald replied. "Too young for such, in truth, but my brothers were all going, and I would not be left behind. Willam said I could be his squire, though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he'd stolen from the inn. He died upon the Stepstones, and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him, and for my brother Robin. Owen died from a mace that split his head apart, and his friend Jon Pox was hanged for rape."

"The War of the Ninepenny Kings?" asked Hyle Hunt.

"So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was."
That would be pretty awesome. And that also tied in nicely with the Hound's arc, because he, in the end, didn't break, though I think it was because of his misanthropy and cynicism. Fuck this shit, I'm out, goes the Hound. Ironically, they're in pursuit of a mythologised version of the Hound which matches the description well.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Loonyyy said:
Yeah, I've heard the Dorne stuff is rubbish. Having seen the screens that their social media people keep putting up, I don't doubt it. In the books it was, to my reading, poorly developed and given less time that it could have been, but I didn't mind, because it felt more alien, and being out of your depth there actually conveyed the sense of a different culture well.
Oh, you haven't seen it? It's so bad, Loonyyy. It's SO bad. They ruined the Sand Snakes so hard it actually wrecked characters in other, unrelated books.

Loonyyy said:
And I'm real sick of seeing ads where Dany talks of "Breaking the wheel". I've only seen the episode where that takes place, think it was Hardhome, and god, that's fucking awful dialogue there, just so lacking in self awareness. All these other families depose each other, and it's a cycle of war that destroys the land, and it's so horrible. So I plan to do the exact same, but since I'm such a badass, I will end this cycle, by engaging with it in exactly the same way. I mean really. As if Robb Stark, Renly Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Joffrey and the Lannisters, or anyone else in the war doesn't think they're breaking the wheel, that they'll win, and then rule from a position of strength, not be deposed, and restore peace. Show Dany is as bad as book Dany becomes in the later books, but at least then I didn't have to see it being presented as if it was some epic moment, some awesome speech. And then Tyrion, giver of awesome speeches, just lets her bounce this utter BS off him. He wouldn't have taken that from Joffrey, that's for sure. I think that the writers are still labouring under the impression that Dany is some sort of hero.
Dany is a conqueror, not a ruler. Her peeping away about breaking wheels is actually relatively in keeping with her character.

Tyrion though? Tyrion is just a shell at this point. They've whitewashed that character into oblivion. He's basically just Peter Dinklage with a questionable accent now. He's there for quips and hero moments.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Oh, you haven't seen it? It's so bad, Loonyyy. It's SO bad. They ruined the Sand Snakes so hard it actually wrecked characters in other, unrelated books.
I don't think Arys can be appearing, what about Areo, the bearded priests, Doran Martell?

Dany is a conqueror, not a ruler. Her peeping away about breaking wheels is actually relatively in keeping with her character.

Tyrion though? Tyrion is just a shell at this point. They've whitewashed that character into oblivion. He's basically just Peter Dinklage with a questionable accent now. He's there for quips and hero moments.
And a shit beard. Don't forget that beard. God the show has a problem with finding hair dye. I think that Dinklage actually grew one, but I was sure in it's first appearances in trailers that it was some horrendous fake. It just looks wrong, and Dinklage sounds more and more American in every appearance since the 3rd season.

I wouldn't mind the presentation of Dany, if the show understood context. In the books, it doesn't matter if Dany is terrible, because the books don't have so much thematic framing, music, lighting etc. So you're free to go, well, Dany's just an ass. Same with say, Stannis. To me, that's one of the reasons even amongst book readers, there are so many views on Stannis, because the story is relatively neutral in it's presentation, bar colouring from the POV character, who we understand the perspective of.

In the show, Dany and Tyrion sit down for a friendly chat with a glass of wine and the explicit threat of execution, to talk political philosophy and mummy and daddy issues, and Dany explains her utterly stupid perspective about the breaking of perfectly useful wheels. And instead of say, Stannis' evil music he's had to put up with throughout the series(I mean really, what's with that?), or any of the various musical cues, or any presentation that might demonstrate egomania, say, the way that Joffrey postures, or lounges on the throne, we've got dolled up Emilia Clarke being all strong and noble, talking to the audience's favourite character who has decided to side with her, having royally screwed everything else.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Loonyyy said:
I don't think Arys can be appearing, what about Areo, the bearded priests, Doran Martell?
No Arys. Aero is there, but he basically has no dialogue, he's just a prop. His axe looks fucking ridiculous.

Doran is also there, but so far has done very little except look constipated. Arianne is gone (as, naturally, is Quentyn), and the schemer is now Ellaria for some fucking reason (she was the peacemaker in the books), who wants to murder Myrcella instead of crowning her (again, for some random fucking reason). The Sand Snakes so far have pranced around in a terribly choreographed fight, delivered stilted dialogue, and literally played Paddycake in a jail cell. Rather than sending Nym to King's Landing, Doran decides to send Trystane (??) who on the show is his only living heir (???). His reasons for this are ??????????.

We might still get Fire and Blood with Trystane standing in for Arianne, but they've botched the storyline so extravagantly I have NO idea where they are going with it at this point, and they have a ton of shit to cover in episode 10

Loonyyy said:
And a shit beard. Don't forget that beard. God the show has a problem with finding hair dye. I think that Dinklage actually grew one, but I was sure in it's first appearances in trailers that it was some horrendous fake. It just looks wrong, and Dinklage sounds more and more American in every appearance since the 3rd season.

I wouldn't mind the presentation of Dany, if the show understood context. In the books, it doesn't matter if Dany is terrible, because the books don't have so much thematic framing, music, lighting etc. So you're free to go, well, Dany's just an ass. Same with say, Stannis. To me, that's one of the reasons even amongst book readers, there are so many views on Stannis, because the story is relatively neutral in it's presentation, bar colouring from the POV character, who we understand the perspective of.

In the show, Dany and Tyrion sit down for a friendly chat with a glass of wine and the explicit threat of execution, to talk political philosophy and mummy and daddy issues, and Dany explains her utterly stupid perspective about the breaking of perfectly useful wheels. And instead of say, Stannis' evil music he's had to put up with throughout the series(I mean really, what's with that?), or any of the various musical cues, or any presentation that might demonstrate egomania, say, the way that Joffrey postures, or lounges on the throne, we've got dolled up Emilia Clarke being all strong and noble, talking to the audience's favourite character who has decided to side with her, having royally screwed everything else.
Yeah I have no idea what's going on with Dinklage's accent. It's a fucking mess. Inexplicably, he continues to get Emmy nods despite sleepwalking through the better part of the last four seasons.

I think the problems with Dany are twofold. One, Clarke isn't a very good actress. She's not bringing any subtlety to the performance. Two, the show's pacing is so ridiculously breakneck and slapdash that they have absolutely no time for nuance or complexity. It's just Dany free slave. Dany gud.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Yeah I have no idea what's going on with Dinklage's accent. It's a fucking mess. Inexplicably, he continues to get Emmy nods despite sleepwalking through the better part of the last four seasons.

I think the problems with Dany are twofold. One, Clarke isn't a very good actress. She's not bringing any subtlety to the performance. Two, the show's pacing is so ridiculously breakneck and slapdash that they have absolutely no time for nuance or complexity. It's just Dany free slave. Dany gud.
It wouldn't be so bad if they could do some framing. Also, while Dany frees slaves, they seem (Not restricted to the show, but in the books it's far less noticeable) to ignore the reality of medieval ruling. Peasants and citizens often are little more than slaves, and can be subject to cruel punishments. Dany wants to OWN the people of Westeros, and she's willing to put thousands of them to the sword and burn them alive to do so. Who gives a fuck about however many slaves. It's not some freedom, the people of Westeros aren't crying out for relief from some tyranny, most of them would rather just be left alone and not screwed by yet another royal who feels they have the divine right to ruin their lives. Ostensibly progressive characters get points and favour, but that doesn't work so well when those characters want to rule over everyone absolutely.

If we got some of that Stannis music while she was talking of conquest, it'd go a long way.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Loonyyy said:
If we got some of that Stannis music while she was talking of conquest, it'd go a long way.
Ha! You mean the ominous Melisandre/spooky things music? I love that music. It should play every time anyone says anything.
 

Loonyyy

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,292
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Loonyyy said:
If we got some of that Stannis music while she was talking of conquest, it'd go a long way.
Ha! You mean the ominous Melisandre/spooky things music? I love that music. It should play every time anyone says anything.
Yeah, it's a suitably menacing and ominous theme, well suited to blood magic.

Ends up being associated with Stannis too, in fact, IIRC, it was playing as he routed the wildlings too, which wouldn't make much sense.

I like the Rains of Castamere better. I have the cover of it by The National that they had for the credits of the Blackwater episode on my phone, it's a legitimately good song.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
13,054
6,748
118
Country
United Kingdom
BloatedGuppy said:
No Arys. Aero is there, but he basically has no dialogue, he's just a prop. His axe looks fucking ridiculous.
BloatedGuppy said:
Aero is there,
BloatedGuppy said:



OT: Finally actually watched the episode. Pretty difficult to watch stuff.
 

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
3,024
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Two, the show's pacing is so ridiculously breakneck and slapdash that they have absolutely no time for nuance or complexity. It's just Dany free slave. Dany gud.
I think this is where a majority of this season's problems have sprouted from. Squeezing two dialogue heavy, expositiony books into one 10 episode season.

There's Dorne with its mixed up Sand Snakes and omitted Quentyn and Arriane. The lack of Jon Connington and (f)Aegon. Squeezing Sansa and Jeyne into one character. Repurposing Jaquen as the Kindly Man and ignoring most of Arya's development and training in the House of Black and White. Tyrion being fast tracked to Dany to take over Barristan's role, who is dead for some reason. Dario lack of blue beard. Omission of Lady Stoneheart. Omission of Mance's secret survival. Omission of the entire Iron Islands plotline.

And whilst I saw the Usullied point addressed above, I can't help but feel that this was another adaption blunder. In the books Unsullied, whilst hardly uber soldiers are still competent, well trained and disciplined and Stalwart Shield's death took multiple Sons of the Harpy to accomplish and he even wounded one. Because rather sensibly they're also trained and equiped with swords, which would have come in handy against that mass of unarmoured, vision impaired Harpies in the fighting pits. Sounds more like plot dumb to me.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
13,054
6,748
118
Country
United Kingdom
Azure-Supernova said:
The lack of Jon Connington and (f)Aegon.
This is potentially even more significant than it seems; without (f)Aegon, Varys' motivation is entirely different, too. He's supporting a different candidate.

Pretty nonsensically, too: he sent an assassin after Daenerys in Season 2, after all. They made vague reference to an explanation in s5e9-- Tyrion speculates that Varys was secretly protecting her from afar-- but then it's just getting silly. Varys hired an assassin and then secretly (somehow) made sure his own assassin would fail?! Balls. D&D just didn't think of it.
 

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
3,024
0
0
Silvanus said:
Azure-Supernova said:
The lack of Jon Connington and (f)Aegon.
This is potentially even more significant than it seems; without (f)Aegon, Varys' motivation is entirely different, too. He's supporting a different candidate.

Pretty nonsensically, too: he sent an assassin after Daenerys in Season 2, after all. They made vague reference to an explanation in s5e9-- Tyrion speculates that Varys was secretly protecting her from afar-- but then it's just getting silly. Varys hired an assassin and then secretly (somehow) made sure his own assassin would fail?! Balls. D&D just didn't think of it.
Which of course makes sense when you put Aegon into the equation, because regardless of whether or not he is the Aegon Targaryen is irrelevant once you realise that Varys is just gunning for a Targaryen Westeros by any means.

In retrospect TV Varys looks like a colossal idiot for putting all his faith into Viserys/Daenerys. I assumed Viserys was his initial plan, but earning the moniker Beggar King and being known for exisitng solely upon the favour of others does not a king make. However Danaerys suffers from a similar problem in that if Viserys was his initial choice, then Dany was a means to and end or a chip to be bargained with and not a choice. Of course in the books it makes sense because Aegon is there, having a proper kingly upbringing with Jon Connington showing him the royal ropes. Instead I feel the showrunners pushing Dany as a miracle leader, Aegon the Conqueror reborn... except lacking all of that military might; the two extra dragon riders; the fealty of existing houses; knowledge of Westerosi customs and smallfolk and an actual army...