Game of Thrones - Well, Stannis fans, what do you think of him NOW? (Spoilers)

[FirstNameLastName]

Wow ... you seem genuinely upset by all this. Not just posing criticisms at the show, but actually bitter and condescending toward those who would disagree.

I don't believe it's nearly as morally reprehensible as you make it out to be. They are without supplies, and cannot hope to succeed. Going back isn't really an option either, so the choice is they all sit there and starve/freeze to death (her included), or one person is sacrificed for their cause. Oh, and let's not forget what they believe to be at stake. It's more than just seating his arse on the throne, he believes that it's his destiny to save the realm from the dark.

The Sand Snakes are barely watchable, even without their Shatner-tier fight scene. Mace Tyrell was never the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he and Meryn Trant are cartoon characters now. Mace is dumb and Trant is a bad guy, we get it, D&D.

Can't help but agree with you on Trant. I find I'm almost always kinder to episodes of various media that attract scorn than others, but even I rolled my eyes at that scene this week. I mean, it's not enough that he's a violent thug who beat a defenseless woman and murdered for kicks? He has to be a pedophile too? If you say so...

Regarding the scene with Dany: Is it just me, or would the sons of the harpy have met with success far earlier in their campaign if they'd used just ONE of those throwing spears they chucked at the dragon on the queen instead, prior to its arrival?

I'm also going to have agree on the Meryn Trant scene. While it's not all that unbelievable that people in the time period may have child prostitutes, it felt like it was done for shock value in order to make us hate him further, even though I have no real contempt for the guy (he certainly isn't good, but I have no real desire for revenge against him). And considering he said something about having a fresh one for him tomorrow, I guess they are setting it up for Arya to use that in her assassination.

Also, that scene in the arena was rather silly. At one point she was facing the dragon, standing with her back to an entire group of the harpies who were throwing the spears over her to hit the dragon. Fucking really? Scenes where people who are in the middle of mortal danger, yet do not act like they are in danger, are one of my pet-peeves.

First of all, how many bloody Sons of the Harpy are there?! Like, seriously, I thought it was just a Masters rebellion, of which only some of them rebelled. But no, apparently slaves are in on it and there are enough of them to swarm a friggin' stadium.

In the books, the Sons of the Harpy are much more stealthy and mysterious, attacking one or two people at a time in the nights and fleeing the scene. I guess they decided to turn them into a legitimate army in the show for dramatic purposes, even going so far as to give them all masks. When I first saw them I thought they were the Brazen Beasts.

Really at this point Jon Snow is the only person I feel comfortable supporting. And things aren't looking too good for him.

Spoiler: ADWD spoiler

Unless even more has changed from the books, there is likely a ticking clock on Jon Snow.

 

[Zhukov]

Not gonna lie, I laughed.

I can see Stannis doing that as a regrettable sacrifice for the greater good thing, but his little "Grrr, destiny!" speech beforehand just turned it into a joke.

Kinda curious as to how burning a kid is going to help with a freezing army with dwindling supplies. I suppose they could eat poor little scale-face once she's done cooking, but that seems like a short-term solution.

 

[Silvanus]

There's also the option of Stannis looking at sure defeat in the face of Winterfell and sending a raven to Castle Black telling Melisandre to go through with the sacrifice.

That's true, but...

Spoiler: ADwD and TWoW spoilers

...since one of the last chapters in which we see him has him telling his knights to support Shireen's cause if he himself dies, that would involve a huge priority-switch. "We will save Winterfell, or die in the attempt". He's more prepared to die himself.

 

[Lightknight]

I think they prepared the audience too far in advance for this. I feel like I've always known this was going to happen in the show, at least. It was basically dripping in foreshadowing.

I wonder if there's any chance of her then be resurrected as we've seen the same god do.

There's also the option of Stannis looking at sure defeat in the face of Winterfell and sending a raven to Castle Black telling Melisandre to go through with the sacrifice.

That's true, but since one of the last chapters in which we see him has him telling his knights to support Shireen's cause if he himself dies, that would also involve a significant priority-switch. He's more prepared to die himself.

You mean like in the previous show where he assures his daughter that he loves having her as his daughter and is proud of her? Big switches are big switches, GoT is full of them.

 

[Silvanus]

You mean like in the previous show where he assures his daughter that he loves having her as his daughter and is proud of her? Big switches are big switches, GoT is full of them.

Indeed it is, but we're discussing whether it will happen in ASoIaF.

 

[The Harkinator]

I'm still supporting BookStannis, but for the TV show I'm now firmly rooting for the White Walkers to conquer Westeros, then break right through the fourth wall and kill Benioff and Weiss.

While GRRM has stated that the burning is based of an upcoming part of the books, it's likely the circumstances will be different. they're not even in the same location or even likely to be for some time.

It's a blatant derailment of a character Benioff and Weiss admit they don't like (and give some rubbish reasons for not doing so), and it completely wrecks the "March on Winterfell" plotline. Since there's nobody to root for, the conflict loses all engagement with the audience. Stannis had been going through some sympathetic changes this season, and became a major character in that storyline the audience could root for. Now there's nobody there to support I just want the thing to be over and done with, and I don't really care about the outcome anymore.

But this is quite possibly the culmination of D&D butchering Stannis as a character, and making him look like the villain. First they robbed him of the subtler emotional things, like smiling when he sees Davos alive after the Blackwater, or showing remorse for killing Renly. Then they changed certain events to remove any heroism from them. Stannis just has Gendry abducted and immediately decides to kill him afterwards, rather than grappling over killing Edric Storm like he does in the books. There's also no realisation of his earlier mistakes, as outlined in this bit:

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."

Then the victory over Mance Rayder is portrayed as rocking up and attacking an army not ready for battle rather than an intervention to turn the tide against the wildlings. It's small differences like this that add up to a big character assassination.

Though I'm pretty sure Silvanus can outline all of this better than I ever could.

 

[Lightknight]

You mean like in the previous show where he assures his daughter that he loves having her as his daughter and is proud of her? Big switches are big switches, GoT is full of them.

Indeed it is, but we're discussing whether it will happen in ASoIaF.

They may be looking to resolve the Stannis storyline more swiftly for whatever reason. Perhaps in the book Stannis runs into more of a wall than ever and rides to castle black or whatever to get it done. Maybe the red witch shows up with the girl as a resolution?

They warned you that this season would be getting into spoiler territory for the books. This would be a huge character change. Too big for a show to decide to do with a beloved franchise. So I think it's a fairly safe bet that you're now confronted with how things will be and have to adjust your view (and perhaps your avatar) accordingly. I recommend a picture with that rockin' beard of his.

You can revel in being right if that turns out to be false, but all signs point to this is probably true here.

 

[Lightknight]

I'm still supporting BookStannis, but for the TV show I'm now firmly rooting for the White Walkers to conquer Westeros, then break right through the fourth wall and kill Benioff and Weiss.

While GRRM has stated that the burning is based of an upcoming part of the books, it's likely the circumstances will be different. they're not even in the same location or even likely to be for some time.

It's a blatant derailment of a character Benioff and Weiss admit they don't like (and give some rubbish reasons for not doing so), and it completely wrecks the "March on Winterfell" plotline. Since there's nobody to root for, the conflict loses all engagement with the audience. Stannis had been going through some sympathetic changes this season, and became a major character in that storyline the audience could root for. Now there's nobody there to support I just want the thing to be over and done with, and I don't really care about the outcome anymore.

But this is quite possibly the culmination of D&D butchering Stannis as a character, and making him look like the villain. First they robbed him of the subtler emotional things, like smiling when he sees Davos alive after the Blackwater, or showing remorse for killing Renly. Then they changed certain events to remove any heroism from them. Stannis just has Gendry abducted and immediately decides to kill him afterwards, rather than grappling over killing Edric Storm like he does in the books. There's also no realisation of his earlier mistakes, as outlined in this bit:

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."

Then the victory over Mance Rayder is portrayed as rocking up and attacking an army not ready for battle rather than an intervention to turn the tide against the wildlings. It's small differences like this that add up to a big character assassination.

Though I'm pretty sure Silvanus can outline all of this better than I ever could.

Stannis is still the lesser of two evils overall and would be far more kind to the last Stark remaining in Winterfell.

We just no longer consider him an agreeable claim to the thrown. Though I'm not sure why others didn't see his Mayan-esque leaning tendencies earlier with the previous sacrifices that were being prepared. His daughter is certainly the final fruition of the evils of such a practice but what did we think would happen once he gained the capital? That the sacrifices would stop? There would probably be great sacrificing fire pits under his reign. It's his one vice, but it's a vice too great to overlook.

 

[The Harkinator]

I just love how that Stannis scene happens immediately before what is easily the best scene Daenerys has ever gotten in the show. ***** finally learned to ignore all the bullshit advisors around her, or at least I hope so.

But to be honest, after that scene I promptly raise the middle finger to Stannis. That's some pitifully weak will right there, the lady must have broken him pretty damn bad for him to destroy his own lineage.

Have we been watching the same show? That's all she ever does, and it's precisely why she keeps causing huge problems wherever she goes. She just ignores anyone with sense.

Then dropping all pretense of reasoning by just abandoning them. No more discussions about her morals that we know don't ever change. Just fly away and sod them all.

This is where she'll go back to them the next episode and everything will go back to normal, which will be disappointing.

I meant all she does is ignore her advisers. She's only ever bothered to listen to them after she's caused far more problems than the cities originally had. She's a complete and utter moron who thinks she knows best when she knows and understands absolutely fuck all.

Sort of, but not just that. One of the things I always found interesting about BookDaenerys was how her ability to inspire love and devotion from all her followers essentially left her with a horde of yes-men that think any decision Daenerys makes is the right one because she made it and can do no wrong. Which gets very well contrasted when she starts ruling Meereen and the locals she takes as advisors at least disagree with her somewhat, but she disregards their advice because she starts to think she's a great Queen and everyone else is the problem.

Since Game of Thrones is in fanfic territory whenever Daenerys crops up, I think D&D have missed a good opportunity to show the difference between a great conqueror and a great ruler. Because she was starting to mirror Robert in the books in that regard, which was an interesting parallel.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Since Game of Thrones is in fanfic territory whenever Daenerys crops up, I think D&D have missed a good opportunity to show the difference between a great conqueror and a great ruler. Because she was starting to mirror Robert in the books in that regard, which was an interesting parallel.

I'm not sure D&D are terribly interested in subtle characterization shifts and interesting parallels. They've got badly choreographed and utterly random fight scenes, sexual violence, and ancillary characters that are Fookin' Legends to keep them busy.

 

[The Harkinator]

I'm still supporting BookStannis, but for the TV show I'm now firmly rooting for the White Walkers to conquer Westeros, then break right through the fourth wall and kill Benioff and Weiss.

While GRRM has stated that the burning is based of an upcoming part of the books, it's likely the circumstances will be different. they're not even in the same location or even likely to be for some time.

It's a blatant derailment of a character Benioff and Weiss admit they don't like (and give some rubbish reasons for not doing so), and it completely wrecks the "March on Winterfell" plotline. Since there's nobody to root for, the conflict loses all engagement with the audience. Stannis had been going through some sympathetic changes this season, and became a major character in that storyline the audience could root for. Now there's nobody there to support I just want the thing to be over and done with, and I don't really care about the outcome anymore.

But this is quite possibly the culmination of D&D butchering Stannis as a character, and making him look like the villain. First they robbed him of the subtler emotional things, like smiling when he sees Davos alive after the Blackwater, or showing remorse for killing Renly. Then they changed certain events to remove any heroism from them. Stannis just has Gendry abducted and immediately decides to kill him afterwards, rather than grappling over killing Edric Storm like he does in the books. There's also no realisation of his earlier mistakes, as outlined in this bit:

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."

Then the victory over Mance Rayder is portrayed as rocking up and attacking an army not ready for battle rather than an intervention to turn the tide against the wildlings. It's small differences like this that add up to a big character assassination.

Though I'm pretty sure Silvanus can outline all of this better than I ever could.

Stannis is still the lesser of two evils overall and would be far more kind to the last Stark remaining in Winterfell.

We just no longer consider him an agreeable claim to the thrown. Though I'm not sure why others didn't see his Mayan-esque leaning tendencies earlier with the previous sacrifices that were being prepared. His daughter is certainly the final fruition of the evils of such a practice but what did we think would happen once he gained the capital? That the sacrifices would stop? There would probably be great sacrificing fire pits under his reign.

Most likely because when Stannis has had someone burned to death before, there's been a greater reason behind his decision. When he was burning the idols of the seven it was demonstrating his devotion to the new god.

When he burned his bannermen, that was (at least in the books) because Alester Florent attempted to betray him and make peace with the Lannisters. I basically held it as that had happened, but offscreen. Also partially I thought because D&D dislike Stannis so didn't care enough to add a reason to his actions. While burning Mance was due to the necessity of having the wildlings bend the knee, and Mance refusing to submit, therefore paying the price for declaring war on the Seven Kingdoms.

But this one had no reason behind it other than Ramsay Bolton, the man who can do no wrong, turning up and messing things up. Which doesn't look likely to happen in the source material. D&D can say GRRM made this up, but they're the ones creating the circumstances that make Stannis look like a villain.

 

[Silvanus]

They may be looking to resolve the Stannis storyline more swiftly for whatever reason. Perhaps in the book Stannis runs into more of a wall than ever and rides to castle black or whatever to get it done. Maybe the red witch shows up with the girl as a resolution?

They warned you that this season would be getting into spoiler territory for the books. This would be a huge character change. Too big for a show to decide to do with a beloved franchise. So I think it's a fairly safe bet that you're now confronted with how things will be and have to adjust your view (and perhaps your avatar) accordingly. I recommend a picture with that rockin' beard of his.

You can revel in being right if that turns out to be false, but all signs point to this is probably true here.

What makes you think it's too big a change for them to make with a beloved franchise? They've made comparably big ones already, though this would be one of the bigger ones. Remember, I'm not necessarily saying Shireen won't burn, but that Melisandre may do it without Stannis-- I don't think D&D would consider that that big a change.

Martin has repeatedly said we should consider the books and show as different beasts-- and he's also explicitly said people will be dying who don't die in the books. With that in mind, I certainly don't think it's beyond them to change how someone dies.

 

[The Harkinator]

Since Game of Thrones is in fanfic territory whenever Daenerys crops up, I think D&D have missed a good opportunity to show the difference between a great conqueror and a great ruler. Because she was starting to mirror Robert in the books in that regard, which was an interesting parallel.

I'm not sure D&D are terribly interested in subtle characterization shifts and interesting parallels. They've got badly choreographed and utterly random fight scenes, sexual violence, and ancillary characters that are Fookin' Legends to keep them busy.

Ah, Clubfoot Karl, Fookin' Legend of Gin Alley, reduced to being a mid season boss fight for Jon Snow.

I can understand why that one happened though even if it was handled badly. Without it Jon and the Night's Watch wouldn't appear much in Season 4, which is difficult from a TV perspective because they're the setting for the epic climax of the season. It would be a... difficult situation to be in since the only other thing the Night's Watch could do is sit around and wait to be attacked, and there's not much interest to be had watching people prepare Castle Black for 6 episodes. Though it does also fall into the narrative no-no of "Had to give them something to do".

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I can understand why that one happened though even if it was handled badly. Without it Jon and the Night's Watch wouldn't appear much in Season 4, which is difficult from a TV perspective because they're the setting for the epic climax of the season. It would be a... difficult situation to be in since the only other thing the Night's Watch could do is sit around and wait to be attacked, and there's not much interest to be had watching people prepare Castle Black for 6 episodes. Though it does also fall into the narrative no-no of "Had to give them something to do".

Oh I understand why they did it. It's more a case of "this is what you came up with"?

 

[Lightknight]

I'm still supporting BookStannis, but for the TV show I'm now firmly rooting for the White Walkers to conquer Westeros, then break right through the fourth wall and kill Benioff and Weiss.

While GRRM has stated that the burning is based of an upcoming part of the books, it's likely the circumstances will be different. they're not even in the same location or even likely to be for some time.

It's a blatant derailment of a character Benioff and Weiss admit they don't like (and give some rubbish reasons for not doing so), and it completely wrecks the "March on Winterfell" plotline. Since there's nobody to root for, the conflict loses all engagement with the audience. Stannis had been going through some sympathetic changes this season, and became a major character in that storyline the audience could root for. Now there's nobody there to support I just want the thing to be over and done with, and I don't really care about the outcome anymore.

But this is quite possibly the culmination of D&D butchering Stannis as a character, and making him look like the villain. First they robbed him of the subtler emotional things, like smiling when he sees Davos alive after the Blackwater, or showing remorse for killing Renly. Then they changed certain events to remove any heroism from them. Stannis just has Gendry abducted and immediately decides to kill him afterwards, rather than grappling over killing Edric Storm like he does in the books. There's also no realisation of his earlier mistakes, as outlined in this bit:

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."

Then the victory over Mance Rayder is portrayed as rocking up and attacking an army not ready for battle rather than an intervention to turn the tide against the wildlings. It's small differences like this that add up to a big character assassination.

Though I'm pretty sure Silvanus can outline all of this better than I ever could.

Stannis is still the lesser of two evils overall and would be far more kind to the last Stark remaining in Winterfell.

We just no longer consider him an agreeable claim to the thrown. Though I'm not sure why others didn't see his Mayan-esque leaning tendencies earlier with the previous sacrifices that were being prepared. His daughter is certainly the final fruition of the evils of such a practice but what did we think would happen once he gained the capital? That the sacrifices would stop? There would probably be great sacrificing fire pits under his reign.

Most likely because when Stannis has had someone burned to death before, there's been a greater reason behind his decision. When he was burning the idols of the seven it was demonstrating his devotion to the new god.

When he burned his bannermen, that was (at least in the books) because Alester Florent attempted to betray him and make peace with the Lannisters. I basically held it as that had happened, but offscreen. Also partially I thought because D&D dislike Stannis so didn't care enough to add a reason to his actions. While burning Mance was due to the necessity of having the wildlings bend the knee, and Mance refusing to submit, therefore paying the price for declaring war on the Seven Kingdoms.

But this one had no reason behind it other than Ramsay Bolton, the man who can do no wrong, turning up and messing things up. Which doesn't look likely to happen in the source material. D&D can say GRRM made this up, but they're the ones creating the circumstances that make Stannis look like a villain.

Were they not planning to do it for his Nephew before his life was saved by the Onion Knight? How is planning to do it not seen similarly? In the books, was he not planning on sacrificing the boy?

What makes you think it's too big a change for them to make with a beloved franchise? They've made comparably big ones already, though this would be one of the bigger ones. Remember, I'm not necessarily saying Shireen won't burn, but that Melisandre may do it without Stannis-- I don't think D&D would consider that that big a change.

Martin has repeatedly said we should consider the books and show as different beasts-- and he's also explicitly said people will be dying who don't die in the books. With that in mind, I certainly don't think it's beyond them to change how someone dies.

It would be nice if she didn't die in the books. I haven't really seen other characters dying this season so she has a good chance of being one of the ones that don't.

Either way, it's nice for there to be enough ambiguity to still wonder. Otherwise it would ruin the books.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I'm actually rather glad they're deviating so strongly from the source material. It's rather frustrating to have the books spoiled by the more watered down story of the show, and so I hope GRRM is writing the books with that in mind, or at least cleverly pushing the show in a direction that will result in us still being surprised when reading the books. And no, it's not really possible to simply not watch the show since it's fucking everywhere. What's more, if you think the talk is intense now, wait until it reaches its finale, I can guarantee it will envelope the internet.

ASoIAF > GoT

 

[Politrukk]

The only thing this episode did was lead me to believe that Jon will die, Stannis may die as well and Daenerys's plot is the only plot that has been stupidly left intact... something I'm very annoyed with because her arc makes no sense story wise anymore (as shown in the series).

aside from that I believe they're currently retconning some of the decisions they made in earlier seasons when they were still sort of sticking to the book plot because they left too many stories untold.

Spoiler

the reason I believe Jon will die is because the character that is indirectly the cause of his assasination is currently present at Castle Black and there has been foreshadowing going on with Thorne

 

[DanteRL]

The Unsullied thing is what bothers me the most too. I mean, first Dany had the Dothraki, a badass army of killer guys who would kill a lot. Then they all die, or simply disappeared. Now, she has the Unsullied a badass army of killer guys raised just for killing, no fear, no fellings, just one obedient and powerfull army of murder... And they get killed left and right by what's kind of the 1% of Meireen.

But about Stannis, well, I was hoping for him to draw the line there, not killing his own. Because, is it really a sacrifice? Yeah, ok she's HIS daughter, but it's HER life he's giving. All moral issues aside, he crossed the line instead of drawing it, and surely that will come back to bite him. And what about that kind of a paralel between Dany and Stannis, both in a situation where they are allowing people to die because of a greater good? Are they the same? Are they not?

For now, my main pick for the Iron Throne right now, is the only person who is not being completely screwed in every way and also has an army... Littlefinger. I mean, he is there, the Lannisters are utterly dismantled, he just have to kill Tommen, take the throne, and tell everyone else he did to help. The Tyrells would be free, he's allied with the Boltons, if Stannis gets to King's Landing, he might just as well say that he was warming the seat.

 

[L. Declis]

Now that I've had a bit longer to think about it, and reading through the thread here, the thought has come to me that it feels like the show is just trying to get Stannis, Sansa, the Lannisters, and Arya out of the way so they can get back to Jon, Dany and Tyrion. You can really feel that the producers have their favourites, don't you?

Which is sad, because they really didn't do very well writing their stories; they messed up Tyrion (amazing casting choice, and Tyrion is still pretty cool despite them cutting out massive chunks of awesome story for... reasons) and Dany (although Dany in the books isn't much better but god they picked a bad actress for her), at least Jon isn't actually too bad (although Kit Harrington really is an action actor and spends the rest of the time looking like Jayden Smith).

Say what you want, but I think the Lannisters were among the best cast and better written of the bunch, as is Stannis Baratheon (although now they know who is needed and not needed, they're rushing through him to get it over with).

I don't know, I really like the show, but the producers preferences really feel like they stick out; it's starting to wander into fan fiction territory whenever Dany is on screen, for example.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The Unsullied thing is what bothers me the most too. I mean, first Dany had the Dothraki, a badass army of killer guys who would kill a lot. Then they all die, or simply disappeared. Now, she has the Unsullied a badass army of killer guys raised just for killing, no fear, no fellings, just one obedient and powerfull army of murder... And they get killed left and right by what's kind of the 1% of Meireen.

This question of "why are the Unsullied such wimps" keeps cropping up. It's making me crazy.

The Unsullied are not Kingsguard. They are not ultimate super fighters. They are, as described, "The best infantry in the world". Why are they the best infantry in the world? Discipline. They don't know fear, and they unquestionably follow orders. They are meant to fight in lockstep formation, using spear and shield to form phalanxes much like Greek Infantry did back when that civilization was ascending. They are specifically designed to be effective against riders on horseback, due to the constant threat and pressure in that part of the world by Dothraki. They won't break in the face of a charge. They maintain formation.

However, they are also uniquely POORLY equipped to do policing duty in an occupied city. They are not savvy, streetwise mercenaries who might have a lot of experience sniffing out threats. They?re battlefield soldiers. They're prized for their discipline, not their initiative or their insight or their ability to engage in diplomatic "community policing". In a one on one battle against a fighter trained in one on one combat, like a Westerosi knight or a Dothraki bloodrider or a Norovosi Axeman, they are apt to lose. Because they are cut as young boys and lack testosterone, they never develop the heavy muscle mass that would give them reckless strength or athletic speed. They are not trained to fight a single opponent. They are trained to stand shoulder to shoulder with other Unsullied and fight in disciplined ranks on a battlefield. They are prized as household guards because they are not given to lust or avarice, not because they're "the best of the best".

It's actually totally realistic that they would get overwhelmed in a chaotic brawl. That's not what they are for. Dany employing them as city guard is completely antithetical to their purpose, and it's why they fare so poorly at it.

As for the Dothraki...when Drogo died, the force of personality holding his Khalasar together died too. I can't remember the exact numbers (some 20-40,000 riders followed Drogo, represented by 10 guys and a donkey onscreen because S1 budget), but all but a couple hundred left when Drogo died, and those remaining were largely infirm, too old, too young, etc. The only reason Dany herself wasn't dragged off to Vaes Dothrak was Jorah Mormont killing Drogo's Bloodrider, and everyone else being too scared of the Very Obvious Blood Magic she'd just undertaken to hang around.