#GamerGate Needs Damage Control Badly (Small OP Update)

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shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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s69-5 said:
Fourth, you don't visit "gaming discussion" and took one cursory look at it and declared your statement to be truth and mine to be dubious at best - even though I've lived in Gaming Discussion for 5 years now... okay then.
Okay, how about the opinion of someone who has been a part of Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic almost daily for three and a half years then?

More than three-quarters of the threads made since 2012 which have involved feminism, sexism, or "social justice" topics in gaming have come from people trying to discredit Anita Sarkeesian or otherwise trying to "shout down" those they consider to be "SJWs". A precious few have been made trying to actually discuss the subject matter and content of things like Sarkeesian's videos, but those are all inevitably derailed by people coming in trying to discredit her on a personal level. Even the topics we get like "should there be more women in gaming?" tend to just be thinly-veiled attacks on "feminist" ideology. It is incredibly rare that we actually get one of those threads from someone who is a feminist, because they've all spent a damn near constant two years getting "shouted down by the opposition".

And in every single one of those threads, hyperbole is used in quite an astounding way to make it seems like this entire website is filled with nothing but indignant "SJWs" who are calling everyone else "misogynists" for daring to speak up against them and trying to "censor" the other side of the discussion; claims which any "cursory look" could easily disprove. (And I won't even get into the criminal abuse and misuse of the term "censorship" that has happened over the past two years.)

There are very few people on this website who have ever expressed open support for the types of "feminism" that the pro-GamerGate people seem so terrified of. Many more of us simply jump into threads to try getting people to refrain from attacking people rather than their arguments, or to ensure that they're actually using factual information and aren't simply taking something as fact because it validates their confirmation bias.

EDIT: This is all from the perspective of being completely separate from the R&P forum, of course. I don't go there, so maybe it's a slightly different story there. But in GD and OT, feminists (the likes that people are saying are coming out from around every corner at least) are in very short supply.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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Zeconte said:
shrekfan246 said:
EDIT: This is all from the perspective of being completely separate from the R&P forum, of course. I don't go there, so maybe it's a slightly different story there. But in GD and OT, feminists (the likes that people are saying are coming out from around every corner at least) are in very short supply.
No, that's pretty much exactly how it is in R&P as well, what with pretty much any thread there about feminism being an attack on it with people mostly defending against said attacks. Honestly, I thought initially assumed pro-feminist threads must have completely dominated other subforums with the way people talked about how invasive and dominating feminists around here were, only to find that these invasive and dominating feminists were just as scarce to the point of nonexistence elsewhere as they were in R&P.
The rhetoric is something that has stumped me, too.

I've seen the word "misogyny" thrown around more often many times over by the people who are "opposing" the feminists than by the pro-feminist group themselves. At least on this website. I've admittedly seen it used occasionally in articles and in the comments on said articles on other websites, but around here claiming you're being accused of "misogyny" is more often an indicator of a victim complex than anything else.

Again from the perspective of someone divorced from R&P. Though to be honest, at this point I think the only tangible difference between GD and R&P is the relative "real-world impact" of the things they're debating.
 

TransGamer

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Aug 31, 2014
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I recently elaborated in a blog post as to why I'm incredibly uncomfortable with GG and have been from essentially the beginning. None of those things seem thoroughly addressed for me to disconnect negative connotations with the tag.

If anything, there needs to be a reprieve. A small cooldown period after which I think dialog would be much easier to facilitate. Right now? We're going on a month of people yelling at each other and it's not been overly productive. I'd even argue it's been predominantly damaging.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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TransGamer said:
I recently elaborated in a blog post as to why I'm incredibly uncomfortable with GG and have been from essentially the beginning. None of those things seem thoroughly addressed for me to disconnect negative connotations with the tag.

If anything, there needs to be a reprieve. A small cooldown period after which I think dialog would be much easier to facilitate. Right now? We're going on a month of people yelling at each other and it's not been overly productive. I'd even argue it's been predominantly damaging.
There has been some good to come from it, but on the whole? Predominantly damaging is an understatement.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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I'm trying to stay out of the whole thing because I'm an evil feminist and clearly biased. But also because I find it kind of boring, but what I can say is that they don't seem to have a clear goal in mind- yes, yes I know `journalistic integrity` but I've not really heard many specifics.

But then again, as I said, I've not really paid much attention, so it could just be me. I've seen so many gaming shitstorms I just can't get excited about them any more.
 

Sleepy Sol

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Feb 15, 2011
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I was following the issue for a few weeks, but I just can't be arsed now.

What I perceive to be legitimately good things set in motion by Gamergate often got swamped in pointless conjecture or unrelated arguments. To the point where I just pop in every now and again to see if there were any real developments.

Too much buzzword usage. Too many people associating Anita or Zoe with 'feminism' as a whole without bothering to research on the meaning of the word. Too many news sites and publications demonizing not just the crazies, but anyone who questions any of their positions.

It makes me a sad panda.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Phasmal said:
I'm trying to stay out of the whole thing because I'm an evil feminist and clearly biased. But also because I find it kind of boring, but what I can say is that they don't seem to have a clear goal in mind- yes, yes I know `journalistic integrity` but I've not really heard many specifics.

But then again, as I said, I've not really paid much attention, so it could just be me. I've seen so many gaming shitstorms I just can't get excited about them any more.
If you want specifics, just look at the Escapist's policies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12224-The-Official-Ethics-Policy-of-The-Escapist].

That's pretty much all GamerGate is after. Websites codifying a set of rules that would ensure the press is honest, transparent, and not trying to manipulate their audience for financial or personal gain.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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Agayek said:
Phasmal said:
I'm trying to stay out of the whole thing because I'm an evil feminist and clearly biased. But also because I find it kind of boring, but what I can say is that they don't seem to have a clear goal in mind- yes, yes I know `journalistic integrity` but I've not really heard many specifics.

But then again, as I said, I've not really paid much attention, so it could just be me. I've seen so many gaming shitstorms I just can't get excited about them any more.
If you want specifics, just look at the Escapist's policies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12224-The-Official-Ethics-Policy-of-The-Escapist].

That's pretty much all GamerGate is after. Websites codifying a set of rules that would ensure the press is honest, transparent, and not trying to manipulate their audience for financial or personal gain.
So it wants every gaming journalist website to produce one of those? 'Kay.

I've just not heard exactly what result was wanted over the general noise of arguing and whenever I poke my head in the mega thread it just seems to be `get mad about these links!`.

I just hope this whole thing blows over soon, it's getting very dull.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Phasmal said:
So it wants every gaming journalist website to produce one of those? 'Kay.

I've just not heard exactly what result was wanted over the general noise of arguing and whenever I poke my head in the mega thread it just seems to be `get mad about these links!`.

I just hope this whole thing blows over soon, it's getting very dull.
Pretty much. We're in the middle of putting together a new thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.858347-Zoe-Quinn-and-the-surrounding-controversy?page=810#21396940] that will hopefully be more clear to everyone outside looking in. The basic gist of it is and has always been that we'd like the gaming press to be held to a standard of basic ethical practices that have been embraced in literally every other industry, like movies for example [http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/rogers-little-rule-book].
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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Agayek said:
Phasmal said:
So it wants every gaming journalist website to produce one of those? 'Kay.

I've just not heard exactly what result was wanted over the general noise of arguing and whenever I poke my head in the mega thread it just seems to be `get mad about these links!`.

I just hope this whole thing blows over soon, it's getting very dull.
Pretty much. We're in the middle of putting together a new thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.858347-Zoe-Quinn-and-the-surrounding-controversy?page=810#21396940] that will hopefully be more clear to everyone outside looking in. The basic gist of it is and has always been that we'd like the gaming press to be held to a standard of basic ethical practices that have been embraced in literally every other industry, like movies for example [http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/rogers-little-rule-book].
Okay, I guess.
I still think it's a bit strange this all came out of some woman's business that wasn't anybody else's business, but there we go, that's just my opinion.

I don't have the energy for all this. I'm just going to keep enjoying my media the way I always have.
 

carnex

Senior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Phasmal said:
Okay, I guess.
I still think it's a bit strange this all came out of some woman's business that wasn't anybody else's business, but there we go, that's just my opinion.

I don't have the energy for all this. I'm just going to keep enjoying my media the way I always have.
I can try to explain it simple way.

If I borrow money from someone on the street its not anyone's business.

If I borrow money from someone who covers my business in press than it's everybody's business.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
3,676
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carnex said:
Phasmal said:
Okay, I guess.
I still think it's a bit strange this all came out of some woman's business that wasn't anybody else's business, but there we go, that's just my opinion.

I don't have the energy for all this. I'm just going to keep enjoying my media the way I always have.
I can try to explain it simple way.

If I borrow money to someone on the street its not anyone's business.

If I borrow money to someone who covers my business in press than it's everybody's business.
I never saw anything that swayed me that way.
I'm also perfectly uninterested in this, so I don't mind agreeing to disagree on it.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, though. I'm just trying to stay as far away from this as I can. I just wanted a question answered, and it has been.