Gamers are Killing the Games Industry

[ThePlasmatizer]

You can use bad sophistry to justify it all you want but a fact is a fact.

If you download and play a pirated game, you are a thief. (With the sole exception of some people I know who buy the game legitimately, then shelf it and play the non-DRM, non-disc version made by some pirate... I actually don't worry about that).

And the companies that stop you from playing a game because you re-installed it too many times? They are on a perfectly fine moral high road? Just stopping someone from using their product, this is fine and commendable? They are thieves too in my eyes, they promised the player a game and sold them damaged goods.

Morals has nothing to do with it. The company owns the game and it's entirely within their rights to slap on the most ridiculous and frustrating DRM you can think of. If gamers don't like it, they should show it by not buying these games on principle, but lets face it this won't happen and the minority that do not buy it on principle are a drop in the bucket.

So they could have a game with such a restrictive DRM no one could ever access it, and you're saying they wouldn't face a class action lawsuit? There IS a line where you're no longer giving the consumer the product they payed for and that you advertised which is against the law.

The box says internet connection required to play AC so there is no misinformation or misleading and therefore no basis for legal action. I understand your frustration AC because Ubisoft have gone off the deep end with this one but it's totally within their rights to do it, even when you buy a game you don't own the software on the disk.

 

[Weaver]

You can use bad sophistry to justify it all you want but a fact is a fact.

If you download and play a pirated game, you are a thief. (With the sole exception of some people I know who buy the game legitimately, then shelf it and play the non-DRM, non-disc version made by some pirate... I actually don't worry about that).

And the companies that stop you from playing a game because you re-installed it too many times? They are on a perfectly fine moral high road? Just stopping someone from using their product, this is fine and commendable? They are thieves too in my eyes, they promised the player a game and sold them damaged goods.

Morals has nothing to do with it. The company owns the game and it's entirely within their rights to slap on the most ridiculous and frustrating DRM you can think of. If gamers don't like it, they should show it by not buying these games on principle, but lets face it this won't happen and the minority that do not buy it on principle are a drop in the bucket.

So they could have a game with such a restrictive DRM no one could ever access it, and you're saying they wouldn't face a class action lawsuit? There IS a line where you're no longer giving the consumer the product they payed for and that you advertised which is against the law.

The box says internet connection required to play AC so there is no misinformation or misleading and therefore no basis for legal action. I understand your frustration AC because Ubisoft have gone off the deep end with this one but it's totally within their rights to do it, even when you buy a game you don't own the software on the disk.

Well, I'll just try to ignore ubisoft entirely if I can

 

[e2density]

Let me add a new perspective to this argument.
Generally speaking, games today...just aren't as good as they were. They aren't as good as the games "back then" in the "glory days" of gaming. And developers are getting sloppy, their games have crappy stories and all they care about is making their games have good graphics...

I'm not going to pay $50 for a short, overpriced graphics heavy gameplay lacking game. That's just bullshit. That's stupid. I won't do that.

Instead I buy games that are better priced and/or more fun (etc. Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, $20 retail games). I don't care for what game companies expect us to pay, especially for so little.

Well how do I tell if I'll like a game? Downloading a demo is annoying and takes a while. Why not just pirate the game? And that's where my logic comes from.

 

[xDarc]

The porn analogy doesn't apply. Anyone with a penis and a vagina can make a porno. There are no skills involved. If video game making was as easy as putting the round peg in the square hole... more or less... than we'd have already seen the effects you describe and big titles would have disappeared as everyone scrambled to make shitty apps and flash games.

Hasn't happened and it won't happen because of piracy. Pirates are non paying customers and making the game that can't be pirated- is just going to make non paying customers pirate something else or seek out other forms of cheap entertainment.

The problems are a bit more complex than giving the lazy assholes in the industry more undeserved cash.

 

[JEBWrench]

Let me add a new perspective to this argument.
Generally speaking, games today...just aren't as good as they were. They aren't as good as the games "back then" in the "glory days" of gaming. And developers are getting sloppy, their games have crappy stories and all they care about is making their games have good graphics...

I'm not going to pay $50 for a short, overpriced graphics heavy gameplay lacking game. That's just bullshit. That's stupid. I won't do that.

Instead I buy games that are better priced and/or more fun (etc. Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, $20 retail games). I don't care for what game companies expect us to pay, especially for so little.

Well how do I tell if I'll like a game? Downloading a demo is annoying and takes a while. Why not just pirate the game? And that's where my logic comes from.

I've always preferred time-restricted demos - play the full game, but only for a couple hours.

 

[squid5580]

The problem is, like the music and movie industry, gaming has gotten expensive while it's target audience has largely not increasingly gained the funds to support the industry.

Back in the day, when kids got an allowance for doing chores (and the pressure to "get a job" when you were 14/15 wasn't as present), a kid could buy a brand new game every week or two.

Now? Kids (who don't otherwise have a job) might still get 20 bucks a week for allowance, but games cost $50 or so (I assume that is the average) and there are a LOT more ways they could spend the money--iTunes, gas for their cars, weed...I dunno, just guessing. >>;;

Plus, and this is VERY present here on the forums when the topics arise, people aren't WILLING to buy games anymore. They don't want to spend money on MMOs, nor do they want to hand over 60 bucks for a crappy game, so they wait to get ROMs or illegal downloads, or they rent--Netflix will stick a huge dagger in the industry, I presume.

Just my 2c, tho.

When was this magical time when games cost under 50 bucks new? Nes games were the same price back then as a new 360 or PS3 game is today. Give or take a few bucks.

 

[Penitent]

A well made argument. You avoided making the most conventional points usually brought up in this case, which is something I appreciate. Well done.

The porn analogy doesn't apply. Anyone with a penis and a vagina can make a porno. There are no skills involved. If video game making was as easy as putting the round peg in the square hole... more or less... than we'd have already seen the effects you describe and big titles would have disappeared as everyone scrambled to make shitty apps and flash games.

Hasn't happened and it won't happen because of piracy. Pirates are non paying customers and making the game that can't be pirated- is just going to make non paying customers pirate something else or seek out other forms of cheap entertainment.

The problems are a bit more complex than giving the lazy assholes in the industry more undeserved cash.

You're saying that a video game is even harder and more expensive to make than a porno. Which doesn't make sense to me, as it only adds even further credence to his argument given that he is attacking thepiracy of videogames rather than the free imitation of them. Did you mean to say that the two didn't mirror each other exactly (as is commonplace in even good analogies) or am I just missing something?

 

[JEBWrench]

When was this magical time when games cost under 50 bucks new? Nes games were the same price back then as a new 360 or PS3 game is today. Give or take a few bucks.

I brought that up earlier. You'll find people just ignore it and pretend the magical time existed.

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was nigh-on a hundred bucks when it launched on the SNES.

 

[vede]

Do you want that in gaming? Gaming is hung primarily on a backbone of big-budget blockbusters. We want Halo, we want Mass Effect, MW2, and full 3D everywhere. Do you think that a bedroom programming company can do that? Imagine if all of gaming was Peggle and Steam games (not the big-name ones, the "independent" games); would that sate our thirst for games?

Yes, and yes.

Bedroom programmers, whether they're working by themselves, with friends, or if it's a community-driven, open-source project, are, and have demonstrated, that they're capable of generating some very pretty visuals. Most of the time, they won't be as extreme as what the companies produce, but honestly, I prefer that. One of my main gripes with gaming today is that I have to spend so goddamn much on the hardware I need to do it.

I've given up entirely on playing games from large companies, because, honestly, these "bedroom programmers" offer me a better experience almost all the time. I can run their games on cheaper hardware. They can afford to be experimental, and go against the grain, so a lot of the time, their games are more unique and interesting. Also, with indie games, the games don't just come down from the heavens as if created by some mysterious entity, but their developers are very easy to access. I moderate the community for a moderately popular indie game, and I (and hundreds of other players) chat with the developer, toss around ideas, ask questions, almost daily. If I find a game I like, but I have some questions, or maybe an issue with something, I'm almost always able to go to the developer and say, "Hey, what's up with this?" Just a couple months ago, I found a game that I thought was very interesting, but I thought it was a bit too expensive. I went to the developer, and told him that I thought his price mark was a little extreme, and he was okay to listen to me, and hear what I had to say.

Then you also have the point that most independent developers are just more ethically minded than big corporations will be. That game I help moderate the community for? The developer has openly said that if someone just plain can't afford his game, he doesn't mind if they pirate it. He just wants to make a game, not punish people who don't have the money to toss out for a game. There's also a very large number of very, very fun open-source games out there to find. Their developers make a quality game, supported only by a community and the fact that they just like making games. Then they give the game away for free, and give the game's code away for free, for anyone to modify, redistribute, anything. And yes, even these (arguably, especially these) games are able to have fancy 3d graphics with fancy bling-mapping and cool-morphing and all that jazz.

This is an atmosphere that is, if you ask me, far superior to that of the mainstream gaming atmosphere.

 

[johnman]

Now? Kids (who don't otherwise have a job) might still get 20 bucks a week for allowance, but games cost $50 or so (I assume that is the average) and there are a LOT more ways they could spend the money--iTunes, gas for their cars, weed...I dunno, just guessing. >>;;

Weed is a fairly large drain on mine and my friends funds.

 

[squid5580]

When was this magical time when games cost under 50 bucks new? Nes games were the same price back then as a new 360 or PS3 game is today. Give or take a few bucks.

I brought that up earlier. You'll find people just ignore it and pretend the magical time existed.

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was nigh-on a hundred bucks when it launched on the SNES.

Even the console itself wasn't all that much cheaper than todays standards. Well the launch PS3 price is a bit of an excepetion but not by a whole lot. I remember the first 2 NES games I bought were 69 each.