"Games create rapists" lady gets pwned by wired.com's research

[boholikeu]

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/02/rape-videogames-carole-lieberman/

This is great. Not that one actually needs to do research to prove her wrong, but it's especially funny because the Wired staff keeps contacting her for her sources and she only comes up with one (which is later proved faulty by another expert).

Highlights of the article for the TLDR crowd:

?I don?t know where [Lieberman] would get any evidence for this opinion,? said Iowa State University professor Douglas A. Gentile, who studies the relationship between media and violence. ?There?s really very little to substantiate her claims in research literature.?

Lieberman ?is extrapolating farther than science actually allows her to,? Gentile said.

?There are thousands of studies,? Lieberman said. ?I?d have to look through them or recent ones as far as finding one that specifically speaks about rape, and I don?t have the time to do that right now.?

Lieberman later cited a 2010 study, ?Violent Video Game Effects on Aggression, Empathy and Prosocial Behavior in Eastern and Western Countries? (.pdf), in an e-mail to Wired.com. The study, which was headed by professor Craig A. Anderson ? Gentile?s colleague at Iowa State University ? does not mention sexual aggression or rape.

Despite Lieberman?s allegation that there has been an increase in rape, the number of forcible rape cases in the United States has decreased since the early ?90s, according to FBI statistics.

When shown these figures, Lieberman said the ?statistics do not reflect all the rapes, since many go unreported and others relate to child abductions.? When asked for statistics showing an increase of rape in recent years, Lieberman said she did not have time to pull them up.

?Obviously I know what I?m talking about or I wouldn?t be called upon to testify in front of Congress,? she said. ?I?ve been doing this research for over 20 years?. It?s all about violence, it all applies to rape. And it has been done on videogames less violent or less sexual than the current one that we?re talking about.?

On Friday, several days after our initial phone interview, Wired.com asked Lieberman once again if she had found time to dig up a specific study linking videogames to rape. She once again referenced the ?Violent Video Game Effects? study and failed to name specific games with sexual content that might encourage rape.

?Over the years, I have read hundreds of studies linking videogames to violence. Rape, as a violent act, is implied in them,? she wrote in an e-mail. ?When videogames are violent and sexual, it causes the players to become desensitized to rape and think it is a ?game.??

We?re hoping she?ll locate and forward more of the ?countless studies? that allegedly link games to rape, once the firestorm started by her comments subsides.

 

[Thedayrecker]

Sooooo.... She's an idiot?

You don't say

 

[The Wykydtron]

Lols insane troll logic is insane

 

[OakTaooper]

This is quite great, and if I was not heartily devouring my bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich, I would laugh out loud and spit it everywhere.

 

[Sneeze]

"Obviously I know what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be called upon to testify in front of Congress," she said. "I've been doing this research for over 20 years[...]

What silly logic, I've been speaking English for over 20 years and I'm still not completely sure where to put a semi-colon.

 

[Artina89]

I think it would be for the best if we ignore her. She will eventually go away. I haven't actually heard of her until this whole "Videogames causes rape" controversy happened. When I showed one of the articles to my dad he said "she is just an attention seeker wanting her 5 minutes of fame. It's best to ignore her and let her fade away" and I am inclined to agree with him. Then it came to light that she was just pushing her book that seems to be about sexually manipulating men, and became more convinced that it was a PR stunt.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

She's probably very embarassed right now at the thousands of people calling her wrong.

Teaches you, don't mess with gamers, we're everywhere.

 

[vongola_mist_daemon]

How in the hell does shooting guns killing people got to do with rape? This is one of the most stupid thing ive ever seen.

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

She insults my very moral integrity and basic intellectual depth, and I hate her for this. I have played many violent games, for "countless" hours, that I can cite (funnily enough). I do not at this point think rape is a game, and I would have to suffer serious cranial trauma to begin to form that association. Rape is a inhumane, cruel and unimaginably traumatizing experience, and I would not wish it upon anyone. She is being repulsively offensive and making light of a very serious crime for monetary gain. I care not what congress asks you to do, you aren't a senator, your opinion is as valid as the rest of ours, people just pay you for yours. More fool them.

Well I suppose the gaming community just has to not rape anyone to prove her wrong. Everyone okay with that? That's NO rape. I know right, pretty difficult, after how desensitized and aggressive you are. Just give it a go. /fucking sigh

 

[dakorok]

Well, something like this was bound to happen.

I just wonder how much lower the 'video games are society's evil' scapegoat will stoop.

It'll just keep going lower until something else gets put on the chopping block.

However, Wired did an excellent job showing exactly how many holes were in this crazy lady's argument.

 

[SimuLord]

How in the hell does shooting guns killing people got to do with rape? This is one of the most stupid thing ive ever seen.

You're not helping. You do know this, right?

Just remember, gamers, we have to always present ourselves with a higher standard than ordinary people because all it takes is one high-profile case and we're right back where we started, marginalized and fighting an uphill battle for respectability.

 

[vongola_mist_daemon]

How in the hell does shooting guns killing people got to do with rape? This is one of the most stupid thing ive ever seen.

You're not helping. You do know this, right?

Just remember, gamers, we have to always present ourselves with a higher standard than ordinary people because all it takes is one high-profile case and we're right back where we started, marginalized and fighting an uphill battle for respectability.

yea i know but i just starting to hate this whole thing that poeple just blame games on crimes its kind of annoying

 

[Chris^^]

this literally brought tears of laughter to my eyes, what a moron :')

 

[Therumancer]

Actually, as I keep trying to point out in order to cause further problems, she's not actually wrong. We're looking at the spin we want to see, but if you look at the actual evidence by doing research yourself you'll find there is a LOT of stuff out there on both sides of the rape increase/decrease arguement.

Understand that statistics lie, they can be compiled in various ways to make specific points, if you studied it in school you'd know that. Typically when someone uses a statistic or quotes research, they are only using what reinforces their point. What's more most paid research firms are very specific in asking you what you want the statistics to prove, and then they find a way to make that happen for you (usually) it's not impartial which is a big part of the problem.

This is not to say that "she's right, gamers are rapists" but simply that she might be right about a rising incidence of rape in general, even if it's not linked to gaming, since there are people with a vested interest in the incidence of rape in the US being reported as either high or low. A lot of politicians have a vested interest in it being low numbers so they can say their time in office is making everyone safer. Other politicians whose power base relies on people feeling threatened, want it to be high, so people will flock to them for protection. Things like rape crisis centers have a big stake in this because the amount of rapes can directly influance their funding from both public and private sources. No rape victims and those nurses, doctors, and workers are out of a job, ditto for the companies that sell them supplies who as a result of lower funding make less money. It's kind of sick that an issue like rape comes down to this, but well... that's how our society is.

I posted a bunch of links when this first came up to show the other side of the story (mostly) and show how both sides of the issue can be argued. If you do a search or check other threads/articles connected to this it should be fairly easy to find my messages. I don't want to spam too much or go digging again.

Some of the things I found out include that the US is "currently" (as of 2010) #9 for the highest rate of rape to population (however before someone wants to get sarcastic, both Canada and Australia are ahead of us) and #1 for the overall number of rapes doubtlessly due to the size of our population compared to other nations being surveyed.

Looking at a rape crisis site the claim was we were suffering a rate of 3 people being raped every minute (however consider their vested interest, from a totally cynical perspective). Going back to a paper I found from 1996 a similar rate of rapes was being claimed there.

There are articles saying that we have the lowest rate of rapes in 20 years, but frankly that doesn't mean much to begin with given the numbers present (actually it's pretty sick), and really there seem to be just as many sources saying the opposite if you look.

-

Some might wonder "Therumancer, why the heck are you defending an anti-vide game position". The truth is I'm not. My purpose isn't so much to defend Fox news (despite agreeing with it on a lot of things being right wing), or the pop-psychiatrist they pulled out to make a statement, despite them being over villified since what they actually said isn't quite the same as how it's being perceived, but to defend the gaming community as a whole.

See, one of the major problems with fanboys is that we tend to go on massive assaults against people who attack the things we like. The problem is, we're just as obnoxious, misguided, and uninformed as a community as the other side, and we also tend to be dismissive of the other side even when it has a reasonable point, then complain when the other side does the same thing, and whine about why there isn't any rational discourse on the subject.

We're overreacting here, and I saw things like the "Amazonbombing" coming right for the second this happened, and you know, that kind of thing combined based on the misinterpetation of points we don't like, that might actually be true, is exactly what keeps anti-fandom wars goin.

Back with paper and pencil RPGs, the crusade against them lasted so bloody long, and was so resiliant, because we the nerds, steadfastly refused to acknowlege that the central incidents that started it happened, and were a problem. We really did have people dying due to LARPing in steam tunnels and such. Sensible arguements about a lot of those people being disturbed to begin with, but not representitive of the community as a whole, tend to see like feeble justifications when you have gamers phranking churches and stuff for "lulz". I mean seriously you go off about being their worst nightmare, send photographs of you storing your dice in bowls of blood to "prepare them" and so on, and then wonder why people get freaked out?

Now, I disagree with video games causing people to be more violent or engage in rape, but at the same time I'm not going to argue the point that the incident of rape in the country is increasing. Heck, according to my own findings we had a huge problem back in the 1990s as well, and that was before gaming was quite as mainstream as it is now. The other point that "Bulletstorm" is bad for little kids, is also something I can't disagree with, along with the fact that it WILL find it's way into the hands of little kids. The problem isn't the game though, or a need for video games to be controlled, the problem is the parents, and people being unwilling to take responsibility themselves.

Was Fox being sensationalist? Yes it definatly was. Was it entirely wrong? No it was not. To do this "right" you respond by talking about the parenting issues, and how censorship is still a bad idea. It's also reasonable to question that even if the rape rate is rising (who knows?) how she made that connection to games, or even to ask where the lady presenting that information got her information from on the rate of rapes. She didn't make much of a statement, so for all we know she might be able to articulate a really good arguement given the chance... but nope, like a group of thugs we went and tried to ruin the sales of her book, and now she probably hates gamers on principle even if she could have been reasoned with before had the oppertunity arose.

 

[Evilsanta]

Stupid people are stupid...

Ugh...People like here make me sick. It's like when rock music supposedly makes you evulz and worship Satan. Now it's just video games and they makes you violent and rape everything that moves.

 

[scw55]

Minecraft is the reason why fossil fuels are depleteing. Fact.

 

[LawlessSquirrel]

Of course the sources can imply rape. If that's what you're looking for, you'll be able to find it somehow. Whether she's right or not is not the issue, it's that she's clearly using only disproven information and is unable to present any real evidence. She has a significant personal bias and refuses to look beyond it.

I've seen much more evidence to the contrary of her 'facts', and through my own studies and research have come to personally confirm it. Her saying she's right because we should arbitrarily trust her is not reason enough to consider anything she's said as fact.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, she's not done anything to prove she's not just making stuff up.

 

[jpoon]

It must be awesome to be able to fabricate pure science directly out of your ass!