What a well thought out and reasoned argument. Point: you.psrdirector said:And I have countered, that no matter what, a toilet, is not art.Tele-screen said:
Games that are art: What's your candidate?
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Bioshock - the fifties never looked better.
Halflife 2 - The realism of city 17 is phenomenal.
God of War series - the art design is brilliant.
Halflife 2 - The realism of city 17 is phenomenal.
God of War series - the art design is brilliant.
Another Code R. The story deals with family in a very touching way, and the soundtrack just goes hand in hand with it. The story also has multiple different sub-plots which seamlessly cross over each other. The Graphics are also something to commend, A nice cel-shaded style, with a nice colour palette.
Valkyria Chronicles is also quite special, but it works better as an anime.
Valkyria Chronicles is also quite special, but it works better as an anime.
Guys, please.
This is an interesting topic and I don't want to see it go off the rails. At least not yet. Obviously art is inherently subjective, we're not all going to agree on what is, and what isn't.
OT: Fallout 3.
The design was great in general and did alot to immerse me in the game, which is all good. But it wasn't until finishing the majority of the game and its expansions, and especially following the tripout sequence in Point Lookout where the prolongued and insidious sense of loneliness the game had been building up finally reaching its zenith and knocked me over the head with it. In many ways, the protagonist of that game, depending on how you play him, is a tragic figure, and I enjoyed his journey immensely.
This is an interesting topic and I don't want to see it go off the rails. At least not yet. Obviously art is inherently subjective, we're not all going to agree on what is, and what isn't.
OT: Fallout 3.
The design was great in general and did alot to immerse me in the game, which is all good. But it wasn't until finishing the majority of the game and its expansions, and especially following the tripout sequence in Point Lookout where the prolongued and insidious sense of loneliness the game had been building up finally reaching its zenith and knocked me over the head with it. In many ways, the protagonist of that game, depending on how you play him, is a tragic figure, and I enjoyed his journey immensely.
Seconded. I'd also like to add the Penumbra 2.5ology(?). I'm hoping that Amnesia will do well in the future. Indie games, are quite interesting. Half Life is also a contender, but I'm not sure that it qualifies, beyond being historically significant in terms of story telling in video gaming. For keeping us in real time and in Gordon's shoes the whole time, for using scripting and character interactions (however one sided) to great effect, instead of borrowing heavily from cinema, and literature. Half Life really did take a stand, and tried to make it as a video game that told a story, not a video game that pauses to show a short film or scrolling text occasionally. Its just amazing that it took so long for the rest of the industry to catch up -_-. Maybe I'm just missing a few obscure, probably indie things.Xzi said:
Borderlands is definitely not art. Art direction is one thing, but art is about more than just visuals. Art makes a statement, art is beautiful. Borderlands is or does neither. I guess the latter is more opinion than not though.happysock said:
Actually I would be willing to consider Starcraft a candidate for being art on sheer technical brilliance and achievement. Plus its iconic, which helps. (Who doesn't know what being "zerged" is?)
Actually, along those lines, in Bioshock, I always loved lighting splicers on fire with the SNAP of my fingers, then electrocuting them, and finally taking a picture while they're still dancing on fire.Spitfire175 said:
MY Daddy is SMARTER than Einstein, STRONGER than Hercules, and can light a fire with the SNAP of his fingers, are you smarter than my daddy? Not if you haven't been to the gardens you areNT!... ah something like that anyway. I always thought the fire plasmid would make a neat party trick? Need a light? You'd have to be careful to put it away before you seriously hurt anyone you might be trying to impress though... (getting off topic... sorry!)
Some while ago I read an interesting analysis [http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm] stating that, of all games, Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is a brilliant deconstruction of its predecessor and gaming in general. I also read an article [http://www.insertcredit.com/features/dreaming2/] by some blogger stating why MGS2 is one of the few examples of postmodernism in gaming (and that Hideo Kojima was severely addicted to Pokémon during development). Both articles shed a new light on a game that has been intensily criticised for its pretty ridiculous storyline and I agree with a lot of points they make.
If you've ever played the game, wheter you loved or hated it, I really recommend reading these.
If you've ever played the game, wheter you loved or hated it, I really recommend reading these.
MY GOD! How old are you guys cause the games you suggesting are no more than 7 years old from what i can tell and games these days can't be classed as art cause all the programmers worry about is art.
In my opinion these are the games i would class as real art:
Final Fantasy 7
The Last Remnant
Metal gear solid 3:snake eater
star wars:knights of the old republic 1 and 2
All WORMS games
lord of the rings:fellowship of the ring
Fallout 1,2 and 3
in my opinion these games are art, they may have there flaws but the flaws are what make art.
Final Fantasy 7 in my opinion is the greatest piece of game art ever conceived and will forever be that, for it was the first game to have true 3D graphics, its great game-play and it has the greatest storyline ever storyline.
But it does have flaws so it leaves room for improvement, if something starts out perfect then nothing will change no improvements will be made therefor games stay the same. Therefor flaws are necessary.
In my opinion these are the games i would class as real art:
Final Fantasy 7
The Last Remnant
Metal gear solid 3:snake eater
star wars:knights of the old republic 1 and 2
All WORMS games
lord of the rings:fellowship of the ring
Fallout 1,2 and 3
in my opinion these games are art, they may have there flaws but the flaws are what make art.
Final Fantasy 7 in my opinion is the greatest piece of game art ever conceived and will forever be that, for it was the first game to have true 3D graphics, its great game-play and it has the greatest storyline ever storyline.
But it does have flaws so it leaves room for improvement, if something starts out perfect then nothing will change no improvements will be made therefor games stay the same. Therefor flaws are necessary.
right then heres a few suggestions
ever 17 (sorry for mentioning again, but the way the story plays out is art, mind you there is no deaper meaning behind the plot that i could see, but most painting dont have a deaper meaning behind them bar whats on screen so... WINRAR)
Narcissu (dont know if i class this as a game though), now this is art, has a meaning behind it, and has feelings behind it.
okay i would mention more vn and kenetic novels...(for various reasons i will not) but that is somewhat cheating in some eyes, since you could argue that kenetic novels arent games but are more akin to movies, and vn are basically just choose your own adventure books displayed as a computer game (some might argue that there not games just a glorifyed picture book).
right then onto the proper games
most things that have came from black isle studios (bg, planescape, fallout ect). theres always deap themes in most of there games, be that imortality, insanity (minsc and boo stand ready!), the appocolipse ect in enougth depth to be considered a major premise and not just a convienient game plot point as is the case with most other games(i havent completed icewind dale, but..... well im not counting that one since it wasnt as good, and you are looking for the best candidates)
persona 2 INOCENT SIN, (not eternal punishment) one hell of a story in this one.
the trilby adventure game series, the story actually tries hard to create psychological horror, and well it just seems better done than most other attempts ive seen, and if it can scare you, i call it art!
Yumme Nikki: since you basically just make up the story by yourself in your head in a way that it gets the player to think... hard to describe okay.
i could do this all day listing why game i think are good are art (these are just of the top of my head), but without a solid deffenition of art, that is the best i can do.
ever 17 (sorry for mentioning again, but the way the story plays out is art, mind you there is no deaper meaning behind the plot that i could see, but most painting dont have a deaper meaning behind them bar whats on screen so... WINRAR)
Narcissu (dont know if i class this as a game though), now this is art, has a meaning behind it, and has feelings behind it.
okay i would mention more vn and kenetic novels...(for various reasons i will not) but that is somewhat cheating in some eyes, since you could argue that kenetic novels arent games but are more akin to movies, and vn are basically just choose your own adventure books displayed as a computer game (some might argue that there not games just a glorifyed picture book).
right then onto the proper games
most things that have came from black isle studios (bg, planescape, fallout ect). theres always deap themes in most of there games, be that imortality, insanity (minsc and boo stand ready!), the appocolipse ect in enougth depth to be considered a major premise and not just a convienient game plot point as is the case with most other games(i havent completed icewind dale, but..... well im not counting that one since it wasnt as good, and you are looking for the best candidates)
persona 2 INOCENT SIN, (not eternal punishment) one hell of a story in this one.
the trilby adventure game series, the story actually tries hard to create psychological horror, and well it just seems better done than most other attempts ive seen, and if it can scare you, i call it art!
Yumme Nikki: since you basically just make up the story by yourself in your head in a way that it gets the player to think... hard to describe okay.
i could do this all day listing why game i think are good are art (these are just of the top of my head), but without a solid deffenition of art, that is the best i can do.
What exactly makes a toilet some kind of a horrible symbol of banality?psrdirector said:
Toilet is civilization.
Anyways, art is just a word pretentious people throw around to try to elevate their "creations" over somebody else's. If art is something that inspires some kind of emotion or feeling or whatever one of the more common definitions is... Then it's only more pointless because for different people, different objects and symbols have different meanings. So what's art to one person is not art for another.
It's just subjective bullshit, better leave it undefined.
