Games where characters make dreadful tactical choices.

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Booze Zombie

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In Mass Effect 1, there's a scene where an Asari (disposable minion) and some geth walk in on you making a cure to a bio-weapon and she does a little monologue about how she's going to kill you, etc.

The entire time, your teammates stand there like "duuuuuuuuuh", which is why I love the very smart renegade response: "She's pointing a gun at us and she's surrounded by geth... SHOOT HER!"
 

King Kupofried

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Your allies in Persona 3 during gameplay.
"You encounter a Giant Flaming Wheel Lion.*
"Junpei attempts to use Fire Magic on the Giant Flaming Wheel Lion."
"Fuuka and/or Junpei express their shock that Fire heals it."

Good job team.
 

ecoho

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Irridium said:
Nylis said:
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
TIM told you the Reaper was there. You could have flown in, saw it, capture video evidence(after all, if some voice files from a random Quarian are enough evidence to get them to discharge their greatest agent, without bringing him into the conversation to defend himself, then I think video evidence from their second greatest would be fine. If anything Anderson will believe the hell out of you and help), fly away, then come back with lots of Council dudes.
yes lets take a video of the reaper and bring back a bunch of council dudes who will then stop you from takeing the iff and then try to study it therefore getting brain washed. yes they should have taken video of it but leaveing the thing standing would be a no no. While were on the subject why the hell would you not wait to install the iff till your at the citidal? you know were theres a large fleet that could keep your ship safe while your doing this.
 

JoshGod

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I have not played it but i understand isaac makes some poor choices (dead space 2).
 
Apr 28, 2008
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ecoho said:
Irridium said:
Nylis said:
Yeah the turian on the Purgatory messed up, but they had good reason for destroying that reaper. When Shepard got on the reaper, something caused the reaper's kinetic barriers to activate, making it impossible for the Normandy to get Shepard off of the reaper. And remember, the whole reason they were there was to get the reaper IFF so they could get past the Omega 4 Relay. So the only way to shut down the barriers and get back to the ship, was to destroy the main power source.
TIM told you the Reaper was there. You could have flown in, saw it, capture video evidence(after all, if some voice files from a random Quarian are enough evidence to get them to discharge their greatest agent, without bringing him into the conversation to defend himself, then I think video evidence from their second greatest would be fine. If anything Anderson will believe the hell out of you and help), fly away, then come back with lots of Council dudes.
yes lets take a video of the reaper and bring back a bunch of council dudes who will then stop you from takeing the iff and then try to study it therefore getting brain washed. yes they should have taken video of it but leaveing the thing standing would be a no no. While were on the subject why the hell would you not wait to install the iff till your at the citidal? you know were theres a large fleet that could keep your ship safe while your doing this.
I was actually at the Citadel when the Collectors attacked. Found that rather funny...

Also, we would bring them to the Reaper, we would figure out about Cerberus/indoctrinating and all that, then figure out we can't leave, and have to destroy it. Yes its the same result and outcome, but its a much better way of doing it. And we have the added bonus of now proving the Reapers exist.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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DeathWyrmNexus said:
I always scratched my head and asked where the mage volley was. There was such a big stink about the mages saving their spells for the darkspawn and I don't recall a single damn fireball, Inferno, tempest, Blizzard, or Earthquake. I just saw typical catapult barrages.
. I can agree with this in it's entirety. The mages could have done any number of things to turn the tide with devastating AOE attacks and the like but they appear to do absolutely squat in the course of the battle.

DeathWyrmNexus said:
Loghain could have won the day, despite Cailan's tactical errors, by simply doing what he was told.
Actually, he almost certainly could not.

The strategy being employed is a variation of a pincer movement. Such a strategy relies on a number of facts:
1) Any arrangement of troops where offensive/defensive power is directed along the same axis is stronger than when offensive and defensive power are split into different axis.
2) A force, once committed to a close fight, cannot withdraw from the engagement without significant casualties.
3) A force committed to a close fight, when attacked on a flank, is forced to split its axis of attack and defense.

The strategy thus relies on two distinct components: the fixing force (or the anvil if you prefer) and the attacking force (or the hammer). For this stratagem to be successful, an enemy must be lured into attacking the fixing force and committing to the action (i.e. the battle is joined with main troops and support rather than just skirmishing troops. Skirmishing troops exist primarily to gauge the preparation of a defender and slow any attack on a flank long enough for the main element to respond). The fixing force must then manage to hold the enemy in close combat.

Once the critical moment is reached (the enemy is committed to their attack on the fixing force), the second element comes into play and the enemy is attacked on an additional side. Fully enveloping an army is a dangerous maneuver because, once all hope of retreat is cut off a force will fight far more desperately (thus dramatically increasing casualties on the side accomplishing the envelopment) thus unless the force attempting the envelopment has dramatically superior numbers it is generally considered prudent to allow the enemy a means of escape. Since the enemy can retreat, if his ranks are broken they will take enormous casualties trying to disengage on two fronts.

So, that begs the question "Just why wouldn't it have worked"? The strategy was, at the outset, sound. The fixing force had an advantageous position and the enemy quickly committed to the attack. The plan fell apart for a single reason: the command and control of the King's army was disrupted. This illustrates the key problem: the King's Army had but a single means of relaying the message. A better option would to be to have multiple methods of communicating this information to Loghain's force. Because of the disruption, by the time the message had been received by Loghain, the fixing force had been "destroyed" (a military term that means the force was no longer capable of fighting at a given level of strength. A division that has been destroyed may only be able to fight at the effective level of a Brigade where a company that has been destroyed may only be able to maneuver effectively as a platoon). Thus, had the enveloping force committed themselves to an attack, the likely result would be that the majority of the strength of the darkspawn force could turn to face the attack along a wide front (where their superior numbers would prove an enormous advantage) while the fixing force would no longer be able to sufficiently contest this turn. The probable result would be the annihilation of both the enveloping force and the fixing force.

Loghain, as a result, made the sound strategic maneuver. He conceded the field but maintained a significant portion of his army. Even his future maneuverings (which many would question) were strategically given that he had no reason to know (or believe) that the Grey Wardens were actually necessary to win the war. The Wardens were outcast for a number of reasons including convincing the King to make various decisions in spite of his advice to do otherwise, the fact that they requested aid for Orlaisian Wardens (Whom Loghain had plenty of reason to distrust) and the fact that Wardens had, historically, exhibited a propensity for high treason (thus why the had only recently been allowed to return to Ferelden). In trying to murder the Arl of Redcliffe, he sought to end any intra-kingdom fighting before it began by taking out the ring leader of the most powerful faction. This would allow him to muster a stronger force to face the Darkspawn.
 

Stammer

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There's a mission in Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 during the Soviet campaign where your entire army is sent via paradrop right into the heart of the enemy base. It's almost hilarious watching such a huge army die before they even touch the ground because the enemy has such a huge defense around where you dropped your guys.

By the end of the massacre you only have one Conscript and one War Bear that safely dropped outside of all those defenses. Lieutenant Dasha comes on screen and is like "That... wasn't supposed to happen" haha!
 

Midnight Crossroads

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Most video games don't feature sound tactical decisions. Game developers aren't soldiers. They know most people aren't soldiers either, so there's no reason to crack open one of the many field manuals available for free on the internet to see why charging a machine gun nest isn't a good idea. Some are so lazy in their research I've seen games where sergeants are saluted by captains. It's fucking madness.

I think the game which slaps all sense in the face would probably be Final Fantasy 13 in the opening sequence. I'd hate to be the officer responsible for losing what appears to be a battalion of supposedly trained soldiers against tourists with captured weapons. Seriously, tourists with captured weapons. Most of them probably wouldn't know which side the bullet comes out of, let alone how to aim and fire one. Why didn't they use the gunship from the start? With all that technology, you would think someone would have heard of teargas. And it isn't as if they weren't equipped for it; the soldiers had gas masks already.

Why did Snow and his friends jump into incoming fire? What idiot allows a woman with a child to go on a suicide mission?
 

Easton Dark

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That one lieutenant in Uncharted 2 on the train calls for a helicopter RIGHT WHEN HE SEES YOU REACH THE ANTI-AIR TURRET THEY FOR SOME REASON BROUGHT!

WHAT!

DID HE NOT SEE WHAT COULD HAPPEN?


Also the Warden on Purgatory......... "Lol gonna capture the hero of the galaxy to sell off well leaving him fully armed. Gun be rich".
 

Darth Crater

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Eclectic Dreck said:
DeathWyrmNexus said:
I always scratched my head and asked where the mage volley was. There was such a big stink about the mages saving their spells for the darkspawn and I don't recall a single damn fireball, Inferno, tempest, Blizzard, or Earthquake. I just saw typical catapult barrages.
. I can agree with this in it's entirety. The mages could have done any number of things to turn the tide with devastating AOE attacks and the like but they appear to do absolutely squat in the course of the battle.
I've always assumed that the mages were with Loghain's party (hence Wynne's survival). Better than risking them on the ground with the "anvil" group, and they don't have the range to attack from the fortifications.

EDIT: As that one guard said, pretty much anyone who attacks my arcane warrior willingly should be put on suicide watch.
 

HellspawnCandy

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Dr. Breen not killing Gordan Freeman and having his stupid machines accidently make a super epic gravity gun.
 

MrJKapowey

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Katana314 said:
Fallout 3: Oh no, a highly radioactive chamber! Someone has to wade through the radiation to input the code, and most certainly die! Fawkes, step back, surely a radiation-immune mutant would be no use here. This is DESTINY.

Just Cause: We'd like to free these people from their oppressive leaders. Let's assist with the gang violence, and then blow up anything we see! Oh, the leader's dead now? Whatever, keep going!
Fallout 3 was at least remedied in Broken Steel, in vanilla you had to do that so you could die and therefore have a more meaningful and game-world changing ending.

Just Cause is (for me) represented (kinda) by this quote by Senator Charles Wilson:

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game.

You go in and (especially in the second) overthrow a meglomaniacle dictator who is planning on upsetting the balance of power in the world and screwing with everyones economies. Then nothing happens (except some martinis on a barge).

Stammer said:
There's a mission in Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 during the Soviet campaign where your entire army is sent via paradrop right into the heart of the enemy base. It's almost hilarious watching such a huge army die before they even touch the ground because the enemy has such a huge defense around where you dropped your guys.

By the end of the massacre you only have one Conscript and one War Bear that safely dropped outside of all those defenses. Lieutenant Dasha comes on screen and is like "That... wasn't supposed to happen" haha!
How far in is that?

OT:

Okay, utilising the combined forces of multiple assault carriers (massive spaceships) and a UNSC frigate we will attack the final bastion of this great and still extremelly dangerous enemy which could have the route in paved with Main Battle Tanks.

We will take seven dropships. Five presumably have/had 6 UNSC marines in (weak, but good in teams) two seemed to have like 5 elites in. Saying that an elite is worth 2 marines; we have 62 marines.

Company strength.

For a large siege on a well defended enemy.

Dropped in by heavily armed/armoured gunships. Which then bugger off.

With very little ground support (for the phase two assault on tower 1 (Master Chief's one) you get a jeep with a heavy machinegun on the back and an unarmed quadbike.)

Then you get a jeep, a quadbike and one Main Battle Tank. To push through around 60% of the enemies ground defences. At least for the final assault (against 2 scarabs) you get Pelican, Hornet and Warthog support.

------------------------------------------------

The gates to fucking Oblivion itself are about to open outside this town. How many men are defending it? Less than 2 dozen. How many are mounted? None. How many are in a tactical position (protecting the one hope to defeat Mehrunes Dagon) with him in the middle, swordsmen up front, archers at the rear? None. How many actually do shit to help you? None really.

If this is all an entire country can spare to help then no wonder Kvatch was razed to the ground.

-----------------------------------------------

Getting into a helicopter gunship with an unknown quantity of fuel, ammo, rockets or 'health'. Smart move Woods!

(God I hate him!)
 

mireko

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Sep 23, 2010
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In Deathsmiles everyone agrees to go after Sakura's father, but somehow I'm the only one who ends up attacking.

Couldn't we flank him or something? Sheesh.
 

sooperman

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I'm going to have to vote for Just Cause 2 again. Rico had Panay at gunpoint for like the third time and he just gawked as the person he spent an entire game hunting crawled up a ladder. What a tool.

chimpzy said:
Gears of War. Turning Sera's surface to ash with the exception of Jacinto Plateau.

Great plan. Effectively making your planet uninhabitable and concentrating all your remaining people and resources into a single spot.
Katana314 said:
I'm pretty sure the lightmass bomb in GoW only affected the underground.
Mmm the blast only hit the underground, but it's a Lightmass bomb. The radiation or whatever magic would still affect the surrounding areas like Imulsion does.

http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Lightmass_Bomb

There is a disease called Rust Lung thats caused by Imulsion exposure.
 

Platypusbill101

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Souplex said:
Mass Effect 2: Recruiting Jack. You should have left her to die.
Not using the derelict Reaper as evidence.
Not having an option at the endgame to turn over the Reaper IFF to the council so they could study its technology as opposed to destroying it or turning it over to The Illusive Man.
That was not the IFF it was their base in question. But they could have shared the IFF to launch a cooperative asssault on the base.
 

DeathWyrmNexus

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Big problem, his mechanizations weren't sound. He attacked a powerful lord and divided the country. He quit the field after he received the signal. So while you make a good argument for the necessity of multiple signals, one proved enough. He quit the field when he could have made a difference.

Leaving the Wardens to die nearly doomed the country. His assassination attempt caused an intracountry power play, doing nothing to stop it. So I don't quite get the whole Loghain was right side of things, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Also, his solution to dealing with people he considered treasonous is more treason?
 

VreOresKais

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Feb 25, 2011
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The Entire Halo Franchise, while I love the games, the only reason Master Chief survives is because the covenant always supply him with an amount of enemies one guy can kill on his own.

I've never counted but I'm sure the number of kills goes into the hundreds, but they spread them selves over the whole gorram place. They could have just put all their people around In Amber Clad and waited for him.

And don't even get me started on the number of people who were sat in the next room of Truth and Reconciliation waiting for you to kill everyone and come to them.
 

Platypusbill101

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Gizmo1990 said:
Batman Arkham Asylum. Every time you are in a room, hanging from a gargoyal and the fool's with guns are talking to each other saying things like 'when the batman shows him self I am going to kill him cuz nobody has tryed shooting at him with a gun before'. Seriously do these guys never learn. IT'S FUCKING BATMAN!! He has been beating the crap out of nameless goons for years why have the not got the hint. You do not go up against batman and win.
Bad guys are supposed to be arrogant