Games Where The Only Way To Win...Is To Lose?
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Oh, well, then you should already know who the augmented bloke is.Squilookle said:
It's our good pal Gunther.
Murakumo.
The only way to win is to not play the game in the first place.
Oh, you mean losing in game, as opposed to losing in real life well-being.
Murakumo again, the only way to win is to spend all of your mechs replaying the same level over and over so you can memorize the path of the enemy and the layout of the stage, allowing you to actually have a chance at destroying it instead of ramming into buildings at mach 4.
Many, many JRPGs have this too.
MGS3 kind of had this with the Sorrow... it was really boring if you do non-lethal runs like I do.
The only way to win is to not play the game in the first place.
Oh, you mean losing in game, as opposed to losing in real life well-being.
Murakumo again, the only way to win is to spend all of your mechs replaying the same level over and over so you can memorize the path of the enemy and the layout of the stage, allowing you to actually have a chance at destroying it instead of ramming into buildings at mach 4.
Many, many JRPGs have this too.
MGS3 kind of had this with the Sorrow... it was really boring if you do non-lethal runs like I do.
Grouchy Imp said:
Actually, both Grouchy Imp and I had posted about it on page 1. Speaking of dying, I absolutely loved running into Umbra. How did you guys beat him? I was a low level character when I ran into him, so he kept killing me in three hits.valium said:
Reload my character and start jumping everywhere I went, especially in town. I guessed I could spam my Acrobatics skill but I didn't want to "cheat"--that is, until I ran across Umbra. Then I made sure I had at least three bows and around 300 arrows. When I came across Umbra (again) I ran past and climbed the mountain directly behind him. Thanks to Acrobatics I was able to reach the peak and I could still just barely see Umbra in the valley below. Then I started raining arrows on him--with one hit maybe every 4 or 5 shots because he starts running around like an angry ant. It took me three days to kill him. It was funny seeing the day/night cycles go by, along with dust storms and rain. I believe I was on my last bow when he fell. Sure, you run into better swords later on, but I always kept Umbra on display at eye level at my house in Solstheim.
How about some love for Drakengard? The first ending (there are five) involves
and then each ending beyond that gets progressively more depressing. Except ending five, fuck ending five, with splintered balsa wood, nothing that difficult should be so goddamn bad, especially considering how much I loved the rest of the game.
Your biggest ally sacrificing herself to save the world,
and then each ending beyond that gets progressively more depressing. Except ending five, fuck ending five, with splintered balsa wood, nothing that difficult should be so goddamn bad, especially considering how much I loved the rest of the game.
Then your game bugged out. You CAN defeat her, i did it. I had to change to easy to do it and when the fight begins you immediatly run into an empty room where the princess was before. The guard lady then mostly comes alone to fight you, with maybe one or two normal guards max. Then you just hammer away at her until she's dead.Zhukov said:
I reloaded after that, though. The escape quest is fun and the Guard Lady is one of the few characters that have good intentions, so i did not want her to die.
The first few times I ran into him he simply swatted my character like a bug, but then I returned ten levels higher in a full suit of ebony wielding Goldbrand and with a wagonload of healing potions - perhaps not the most graceful solution but it worked. Other characters I have had since then have gone different routes, including weapons with paralysis effects, ranged weapons with levitation potions (very similar to your approach), and one character even used the ultra-broken exploit approach which I will not reveal here but resulted in a spell with the following effects:FizzyIzze said:
Paralyse for 20 seconds on touch
Fire damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Frost damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Shock damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Poison damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Fire damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Frost damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Shock damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Poison damage 15pts for 20 seconds on touch
Heimdall 2 has a moment where you have to kill yourself on a poisonous plant in order to travel to the land of the dead to meet a god, or something. Kill yourself anywhere else and that's game over.
Then there's that bit in Monkey Island 3 where you have to die in order to both break into a crypt and claim on a life insurance policy, but that's a faking-your-own-death-including-faking-end-credits thing.
I'm sure Jet Set Willy 2 back in the day had at least one item that could only be collected with a kamikaze leap to your doom.
Then there's that bit in Monkey Island 3 where you have to die in order to both break into a crypt and claim on a life insurance policy, but that's a faking-your-own-death-including-faking-end-credits thing.
I'm sure Jet Set Willy 2 back in the day had at least one item that could only be collected with a kamikaze leap to your doom.
That... um, what's it called? The 'porn' game they reviewed here the other day.
Seduce Me?, is it?
Well, anyway according to the review, the only way to up your charm and get the girls is by playing card games, and the object of those games isn't to win, but to keep your score as close to that of your opponent as possible. Not really 'losing,' but it is progression without winning, which kind of counts.
I fell like bringing up RPG 'supposed to lose' fights, or anything of the ilk, is kind of cheating, but I honestly can't think of another example. It's always interesting when a game chooses to make player loss a condition of progression, though. I feel like a really good game could be crafted around a mechanic where it's quite literally impossible to win, no matter how hard you try. I don't know what it would look like, but I think it could be done.
Seduce Me?, is it?
Well, anyway according to the review, the only way to up your charm and get the girls is by playing card games, and the object of those games isn't to win, but to keep your score as close to that of your opponent as possible. Not really 'losing,' but it is progression without winning, which kind of counts.
I fell like bringing up RPG 'supposed to lose' fights, or anything of the ilk, is kind of cheating, but I honestly can't think of another example. It's always interesting when a game chooses to make player loss a condition of progression, though. I feel like a really good game could be crafted around a mechanic where it's quite literally impossible to win, no matter how hard you try. I don't know what it would look like, but I think it could be done.
The very first fight serves as a brief tutorial but ends in total party kill regardless.
Harry "dying" to the Mumblers(?) in that alley is a mandatory thing for the plot to move on.
In the very beginning, either you play through the Amusement Park to your scripted death or die to the chasms/monsters before. Doesn't matter, since it's all a dream to begin with and you're supposed to wake up by "dying".
Dan cannot survive the intro even if you have a buddy playing co-op, nor can Kenny escape the basement in time, even though you're made to backtrack all the way.
That one boss in Episode 5, which you have to lose to so that Laharl's vassals show up to help out (either that or win during a New Game Plus, though that creates a plot hole regarding the vassals).
The sequel pits you against the protagonists of the first game. Much like the first game, the fights are nigh impossible unless you're on a maxed-out New Game Plus, and the story moves on regardless of whether you win or lose.
Wander and Dormin merging in the finale.
The game assumes you'll lose to Leon and Cloud on your first try, so there's no game over - you just move on to the next cutscene.
First thing that came to my mind was Halo Reach, where you know you are going to die and have to fight in order to end the game ( sorta )
Also alot of JRPG's have this tendacy, and sometimes i find it frustrating as the game gives you no hint of knowing it. Its not so bad when the boss just one hits you with 9999 damage and you figure its part of it, but when it appears to be just a fight, I tend to reset the game and try again before i actually die.
Also alot of JRPG's have this tendacy, and sometimes i find it frustrating as the game gives you no hint of knowing it. Its not so bad when the boss just one hits you with 9999 damage and you figure its part of it, but when it appears to be just a fight, I tend to reset the game and try again before i actually die.
Chrono Trigger pulls an amusing trick with this.
There is a fight somewhere in the mid to late through the game that you aren't supposed to be able to win.
But the game doesn't actually make it impossible, just so difficult that under ordinary circumstances at the level you would be on a first playthrough (the game has a new game+ mode where you keep your old levels, skills and equipped items), you'll probably lose the whole party in one hit.
But then again that game has about a dozen different endings. And actually winning that fight (even though you're not really meant to be able to normally) counts as finishing the game...
There is a fight somewhere in the mid to late through the game that you aren't supposed to be able to win.
But the game doesn't actually make it impossible, just so difficult that under ordinary circumstances at the level you would be on a first playthrough (the game has a new game+ mode where you keep your old levels, skills and equipped items), you'll probably lose the whole party in one hit.
But then again that game has about a dozen different endings. And actually winning that fight (even though you're not really meant to be able to normally) counts as finishing the game...
Well If you ever do another play through I suggest letting yourself lose or surrendering in the dialogue. The escape quest is fun especially if you let your companions come and get you.Denamic said:
I'm surprised that no one said Mass Effect 3.
Other than that, umm... well, there's that bit in Mass Effect 2s Arrival DLC where you have to fight waves of indoctrinated dudes as a Reaper artifact is charging up. Weather you succumb to the baddies or beat them all, regardless you end up knocked out and captured.
Other than that, umm... well, there's that bit in Mass Effect 2s Arrival DLC where you have to fight waves of indoctrinated dudes as a Reaper artifact is charging up. Weather you succumb to the baddies or beat them all, regardless you end up knocked out and captured.