Games Workshop really did it. Fall Of Cadia Discussion. (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[vallorn]

You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!​

With that out of the way. Games Workshop has finally gone and done it, Cadia has fallen. A living saint backed up by the entire remnants of the Vlka Fenryka (See, Wrath Of Magnus [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6adES3Z0Qag]), a huge number of Black Templars, an Archmagos, the Cadian Guard, etc, are all there on Cadia trying their damndest to hold off the hordes of Chaos.

Spoiler: Fluff

As the title of the book may have spoiled it, Cadia Falls. The Asshole Trayzen decides to drop by and grab some new pets for his collections via his Inquisitor 'buddy'. Belakor gets into a slap fight with the Imperial Fists with "INFINITE DEMONS" before The Legion Of The Damned show up and bail out the Fists... Then they decide "Yeah shit's about to go down, let's wait around here."

And then Ol' Armless's army lands... and everything starts to go wrong for the Imperials, fortresses falling all over the place, everyone's being driven back, the Sisters Of Battle just get shredded while the Dark Angels are getting Plague Bombed from orbit and the Wolves are running around biting everyone's ankled... And THEN the Living Saint turns up... Yeah this is one of THOSE stories. And the Imperium is STILL losing. Just getting pushed back and back. The Magos' are desperately trying to fix up the pylons to use them against Chaos, and who else shows up and talks his way into helping out with this but Trayzen... Yeah, that's not going to work out well, he's Trollzen for a reason.

Celestine the Living Saint goes toe to toe with Abaddon while the Magi finally get the pylons working and they produce a shield around the planet and drains the warp from everything there. Armless gives 0 fucks about that though and wounds Celestine, then gets burned and boiled by a psychic inquisitor, then throttles the Tactical Genius himself before Celestine stabs him through the back... And then... the shield falls before Abaddon's fleet, and Cadia Falls. The pylons give out and the planet breaks apart...

So, there's the fluff, I'm still looking through the rules, what does everyone think about this book so far?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Abby the Harmless finally clocked a decent kill, did he? Good for him. I suppose it beats bombing planets for the potentiality of Necrons for no real reason ... I suppose GW were desperate to make the 'Despoiler' live up to his namesake and be the least bit threatening above week old apple pie and dodgy mallside sushi.

Even if they need to throw in as much magical mcguffins and plot ex machina into the mix to facecheck the worst general in history.

Christ... might as well scream: "More First and Only fanfic from talentless writers coming soon!"

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

It'll be back. Cadia wasn't destroyed, it was consumed by the Eye. So it'll come back, Failbaddon will retreat, claiming some nebulous victory.
This is GW we're talking about. They already retconned the 13th Black Crusade before. 40k isn't a story, its a stagnant setting for a wargame. At the end of the day Cadia has to come back, because 85% of the Imperial Guard miniature line is Cadia and I doubt they're redoing that entire line.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

It'll be back. Cadia wasn't destroyed, it was consumed by the Eye. So it'll come back, Failbaddon will retreat, claiming some nebulous victory.
This is GW we're talking about. They already retconned the 13th Black Crusade before. 40k isn't a story, its a stagnant setting for a wargame. At the end of the day Cadia has to come back, because 85% of the Imperial Guard miniature line is Cadia and I doubt they're redoing that entire line.

Funny I know some 40k guys that think this is gonna lead to an End Times in the 40k universe.

I am waiting for Gulliman to wake up and become the God Emperor re-incarnate.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

It'll be back. Cadia wasn't destroyed, it was consumed by the Eye. So it'll come back, Failbaddon will retreat, claiming some nebulous victory.
This is GW we're talking about. They already retconned the 13th Black Crusade before. 40k isn't a story, its a stagnant setting for a wargame. At the end of the day Cadia has to come back, because 85% of the Imperial Guard miniature line is Cadia and I doubt they're redoing that entire line.

Funny I know some 40k guys that think this is gonna lead to an End Times in the 40k universe.

I am waiting for Gulliman to wake up and become the God Emperor re-incarnate.

There can't really be an End Times for 40k because A. the setting can't possible get worse(its comically known as GrimDark for a reason) and B. it'd defeat the entire purpose of the 40k narrative. Its supposed to be desperate, bloody, last stands against the outer darkness, the greatest heroes of the age making their stand against the alien, the mutant and the heretic. If you end times it like AoS you loose all that desperation and heroism. Because the Galaxy is fucked, evil has won, the Imperium is broken in thousands of warring factions and empires. So there's really no point.

And I was seriously hoping Russ was going to show up to fight off Magnus on Fenris, but that didn't happen. GW is never going to introduce Primarchs into 40k because that's a step forward you can't retcon. That's too exciting and too permanent.

 

[Zontar]

I'm just waiting for Russ to come back, we all know that he's just around the corner at this point.

 

[Worgen]

When are the space lizardmen going to show up and ./sortthisshitout?

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Honestly, it's kinda nice that Abbadon actually got to do something for once - he's always suffered from that problem of 'ludicriously overpowered for the setting' that every fucking named character has in 40k, which meant he couldn't ever really win or even do anything as it'd upset GW's precious Status Quo, resulting in a track record of failures when he should have easily been wiping the floor with everyone outside of the Primarchs. So it's just... nice. Doubt it'll lead anywhere given all the shit GW's rendered non-canon because it's threatened to push the setting beyond the whole '40k' era, but still, it's nice for him to have a win for once.

...That said, I doubt he actually throttled old Creed there. It was probably a couple of Baneblades in a fancy coat or something.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Honestly, it's kinda nice that Abbadon actually got to do something for once - he's always suffered from that problem of 'ludicriously overpowered for the setting' that every fucking named character has in 40k, which meant he couldn't ever really win or even do anything as it'd upset GW's precious Status Quo, resulting in a track record of failures when he should have easily been wiping the floor with everyone outside of the Primarchs. So it's just... nice. Doubt it'll lead anywhere given all the shit GW's rendered non-canon because it's threatened to push the setting beyond the whole '40k' era, but still, it's nice for him to have a win for once.

...That said, I doubt he actually throttled old Creed there. It was probably a couple of Baneblades in a fancy coat or something.

The best he managed was killing Sven Bloodhowl, a random wolf lord with no character, model or table stats. Forget what anyone posts. This whole "Fall of Cadia #totes-for-realz!" won't amount to anything and be retconned in 5 years when GW wants to make a new model.

 

[EternallyBored]

Honestly, it's kinda nice that Abbadon actually got to do something for once - he's always suffered from that problem of 'ludicriously overpowered for the setting' that every fucking named character has in 40k, which meant he couldn't ever really win or even do anything as it'd upset GW's precious Status Quo, resulting in a track record of failures when he should have easily been wiping the floor with everyone outside of the Primarchs. So it's just... nice. Doubt it'll lead anywhere given all the shit GW's rendered non-canon because it's threatened to push the setting beyond the whole '40k' era, but still, it's nice for him to have a win for once.

...That said, I doubt he actually throttled old Creed there. It was probably a couple of Baneblades in a fancy coat or something.

The best he managed was killing Sven Bloodhowl, a random wolf lord with no character, model or table stats. Forget what anyone posts. This whole "Fall of Cadia #totes-for-realz!" won't amount to anything and be retconned in 5 years when GW wants to make a new model.

I'll take that bet, also bet your wrong about there being no way to end times the setting, considering the hack job they did with fantasy Warhammer, its entirely possible they can pull something out of their ass. I don't think they'll do it just yet, but if 40K ever gets to Warhammer fantasy levels of sales, they will End Times the fuck out of the setting if they think it will increase sales again. All they gotta do is bring the Big E back in some capacity and they basically have a carte blanche deus ex machina to fuck with the setting while still maintaining the popular Imperium factions

As for retcons, knowing GW, it won't be bringing Cadia back, it'll be some other form of status quo, a different planet, shifting how the eye of terror works or where its located, giving Chaos a static foothold while making up excuses for why they don't sweep the Imperium, if nothing else it will give them an excuse to introduce new unit models to sell and print rules for. they likely aren't going to go whole hog as 40K is a bigger money maker than fantasy Warhammer right now, but there's been plenty of times they have shifted events or centers of power and had it stick over the course of various editions.

They changed the entire lore and personality of the Necrons, and that stuck, they changed how the Imperium was composed when they moved away from the ship battle systems to the more profitable infantry figures, so moved emphasis and lore away from the ships and titans to small scale vehicles, Squats are still gone, changes to the Tau lore stuck around, Orcs maintained their early changes, Dark eldar and Eldar have had their lore permanently fucked with in the past, etc. etc. etc.

I'll bet Cadia likely stays gone, if only because it allows them to balance the guard figurines away from 1000 variations of Cadian armies and sell figurines of other guard units. What they will do is find some other excuse for why Chaos doesn't destroy the Imperium, and that will be the new status quo, Cadia will stay gone with some convenient excuse for Cadian guard units still existing, and the lore will shift focus in that sector without drastically altering the current balance of powers. The only way they change it back is if the fans react massively negatively in a very short period of time and it actually effects their bottom line.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Honestly, it's kinda nice that Abbadon actually got to do something for once - he's always suffered from that problem of 'ludicriously overpowered for the setting' that every fucking named character has in 40k, which meant he couldn't ever really win or even do anything as it'd upset GW's precious Status Quo, resulting in a track record of failures when he should have easily been wiping the floor with everyone outside of the Primarchs. So it's just... nice. Doubt it'll lead anywhere given all the shit GW's rendered non-canon because it's threatened to push the setting beyond the whole '40k' era, but still, it's nice for him to have a win for once.

...That said, I doubt he actually throttled old Creed there. It was probably a couple of Baneblades in a fancy coat or something.

The best he managed was killing Sven Bloodhowl, a random wolf lord with no character, model or table stats. Forget what anyone posts. This whole "Fall of Cadia #totes-for-realz!" won't amount to anything and be retconned in 5 years when GW wants to make a new model.

Hey, at least he got to kill something. That's like the first time he's done so in... what, 10 Crusades? 11? It's been a looooong time.

 

[DarthCoercis]

... I haven't played or read anything GW related in donkey's years, but I vaguely recall a world-wide campaign where Abaddon destroyed Cadia. What happened there?

 

[Satinavian]

There can't really be an End Times for 40k because A. the setting can't possible get worse(its comically known as GrimDark for a reason) and B. it'd defeat the entire purpose of the 40k narrative. Its supposed to be desperate, bloody, last stands against the outer darkness, the greatest heroes of the age making their stand against the alien, the mutant and the heretic. If you end times it like AoS you loose all that desperation and heroism. Because the Galaxy is fucked, evil has won, the Imperium is broken in thousands of warring factions and empires. So there's really no point.

Don't see how it would be any more pointless than the fantasy endtimes. I don't argue that it would not be an utterly stupid thing to to, but well...

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

At this point I'm just taking Text to Speech as 40K canon.

Eh..slightly more seriously, as someone said above, I don't think they'll go full on Age of Sigmar with this, AoS felt like a last roll of the dice for a failing product line, I don't think they're going to mess with 40K that hard unless it really starts failing.

As far as losing Cadia goes, I always took the Cadian models as "standard guard", they are fairly generic future-modern infantry that can represent a whole host of planets. You can easily explain away "Cadian" units after the planet itself is gone.

Anyway, this is just another one of those GW fluff things that I've been happily ignoring since they turned Space wolves into goddamn vikings. Fucking Njal Stormcaller...look at him, hes a fucking shaman! How do they form their battle plans? Read a rabbit's intestines?...FFS...*incoherent grognard moaning*

 

[iwinatlife]

A good End times push would be The Emperor coming back...As the newest Chaos God!
Darkest age of Humanity,but he did succeed in making a human accessible webway before going mad.
Put the Lost Primarchs back in play
Maybe Void Dragon Wakes up too

 

[Thaluikhain]

... I haven't played or read anything GW related in donkey's years, but I vaguely recall a world-wide campaign where Abaddon destroyed Cadia. What happened there?

Eh, nothing much. That was back in the day of the big, world-wide campaign that will change everything forever...only not at all. Before that 13th Crusade (there was a 13th Crusade before that, and this one is also the 13th Crusade) there was Armageddon. They also have Albion and Storm of Chaos for WHFB, big game-changing events that were quickly forgotten about. They did kill Eldrad Ulthuan off in the last 13th Crusade, but he got better. I think they killed Inquisitor Czevak off or something, but he was only a fluff character, not a game character, and he got better as well. They killed Tycho off for reals in Armageddon.

In fairness, despite the problems with AoS, they most definitely did move the fluff along for reals in a big way. Totally destroyed a 30 odd year old setting. I'd prefer they didn't, but I have to respect actually making the big deal and big deal for once.

Anyway, this is just another one of those GW fluff things that I've been happily ignoring since they turned Space wolves into goddamn vikings.

Er...when weren't they embarrassingly Viking-esque?

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Er...when weren't they embarrassingly Viking-esque?

They only turned them into spess vikings at the tail end of Rogue Trader.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Er...when weren't they embarrassingly Viking-esque?

They only turned them into spess vikings at the tail end of Rogue Trader.

Ah, you mean way back in the good old days when hovertanks were made from deodorant bottles and the squats still existed?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

GW has a pattern to their story telling. Its only really serious and permanent when its completely made up and shallow. Grukk Face-Rippa is a badass because he destroyed the Obsidian Blades...a chapter made up specifically for Grukk to destroy.
The Necrons are a threat because they destroyed the Imperial Reavers...a chapter made up specifically for Necrons to destroy

The Fall of Fenris! The super epic end to the Space Wolves and...a made up sister planet is destroyed and a random wolf lord with no model or rules is killed.

That's GWs way. Its super serious and permanent, but only in regards to the thing they invented right then and there to destroy to give the false impression of super seriousness. They won't risk alienating the players who have a specific army by killing them off.

Cadia isn't gone because its a known entity, has an entire range of models, and thousands of players have Cadian Guard armies. Cadia will be back, maybe the worse for wear, but it'll come back.