Ganon is Muslim

[tobyornottoby]

Or it's just the design choices of the team. They might have just like the symbols.

That would be lousy design. I wouldn't accuse Zelda of lousy design.

I always suspected this because of the desert stages and vaguely religious iconography, though it's interesting to see it confirmed. This tidbit of information would also suggest that OoT's narrative and styling is partially based upon the Medieval era, and more specifically the tensions between Christendom and the 'Saracens'. Anyone suspect Hyrule might be analagous to the European frontiers?

I knew Hyrule Town was inspired by villages in Bayern, Germany, and I always thought some Gerudo symbols looked a lot like the flag of Turkey when I was a kid... so you're saying the Sacred Realm is actually... the Sacred Land?

 

[fangoram]

[/quote]In my experiences more or less every nation is pretty damn racist or xenophobic as a whole. Except for Canada and the UK. One doesn't need to look for very long at Japanese media to find a wonderful host of black stereotypes that would make a gollywog blush.[/quote]

OK i have to point out Canada is pretty damn racist. half the country is built on Chinese blood and not a day goes by i don't hear racist comments both in large cities like where i'm from (Halifax) and small towns (the valley of N.S)

 

[Taerdin]

half the country is built on Chinese blood...

Huh? :S

Re: Thread

1998 called, they want their "news" back.

QFT

Honestly I barely care about Zelda as it is, it got pretty repetitive after the first one I played (link to the past) in that all the other ones just felt... worse... to me... because they didn't do anything... new...

If they want to use imagery from a certain part of the world then good for them, people draw inspiration from all over the place. Thats like claiming a game which borrows heavily from... lets say... world war 2... is big news. Its really not, in fact I kind of expect developers to take influences from somewhere.

That said I can't see the point to this thread. Maybe I misunderstand what discussion is, but you telling us you researched and found something to be true doesn't really spell out "discuss!" to me, and the only reason why this got any replies is because some people chose to question the validity of your sources.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

Sounds perfectly legit. Given that bizarre crap people shove into fantasy stuff with no concept whatsoever of what it means, I'm not shocked Zelda borrows from Arabic influences to create a coherent aesthetic to Ganon. Hell, I've always wondered how people from Greenland and Iceland feel about their cultural aesthetic being hijacked constantly.

There is one tiny flaw in your thesis though: Ganon turns into a pig. There's no way a Muslim would be okay with that. At best, he's a renegade in his tribe.

 

[broadband]

Although, I find it funny that you call the Gerudos Muslim when they're all scantily clad ninja pirate women.

i just needed to quote this.

what if they just looked for artistic references for a fantasy game?

 

[Erana]

Although, I find it funny that you call the Gerudos Muslim when they're all scantily clad ninja pirate women.

They were not pirates until Majora's Mask...

Anyway, the only real flaw in their outfits is that they are not covering their heads.
In Islam, that's what you do to remind yourself that God is always there. Men are supposed to do it, too. Covering the rest of one's body is both a gesture of modesty and just plain practicality in the desert.

To anyone who thinks that Islam is a extremely sexist religion-
its not.

The Koran allowes for divorce, for women to own property and perscribes dowries. Mohummad, the prophet of Islam, had multiple wives, but he worked for his first wife, years his senior, and later became her business partner.
In most aspects, Islam is far more progressive than Christianity. Its the Christians who caused all the religious problems, anyway.

(If I made a few mistakes when describing Mohummad or the information in the Koran, I apologise. I doubt anyone who really followed the text would be insulted, though.)

 

[Graustein]

Although, I find it funny that you call the Gerudos Muslim when they're all scantily clad ninja pirate women.

They were not pirates until Majora's Mask...

Anyway, the only real flaw in their outfits is that they are not covering their heads.
In Islam, that's what you do to remind yourself that God is always there. Men are supposed to do it, too. Covering the rest of one's body is both a gesture of modesty and just plain practicality in the desert.

To anyone who thinks that Islam is a extremely sexist religion-
its not.

The Koran allowes for divorce, for women to own property and perscribes dowries. Mohummad, the prophet of Islam, had multiple wives, but he worked for his first wife, years his senior, and later became her business partner.
In most aspects, Islam is far more progressive than Christianity. Its the Christians who caused all the religious problems, anyway.

(If I made a few mistakes when describing Mohummad or the information in the Koran, I apologise. I doubt anyone who really followed the text would be insulted, though.)

And they were never really ninja

That's confusing. Are you saying that extremist fundamentalist Muslims are in fact not being fundamentalist? Are you sure that's explicitly what the Koran says and isn't just one interpretation?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational here, by the way, I'm just curious. I've heard the argument before that Islam is in fact not sexist, and I'm inclined to believe that this is the case, but that doesn't change the state of affairs in places like Saudi Arabia.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

I never really thought about this much but now that I think back, it does seem to fit, at the time I played OoT i was too young to really understand or care. but it all seems to have vague religious symbolism, but really was it intended to be like this or did it just happen to turn out like it? I suppose it is possible that underneath it all, the game could be a metaphor for religious conflict, and maybe the Devs are stacked on the Christian side, after all it is the predominant religion of Japan currently, this coupled with the fact that Japanese nationals tend to be xenophobic might lead to a game that is really about war between christianity and islam, but covered by a cute videogame exterior. but anyway I am not sure I am really getting my theory across clearly. i never do while typing...

 

[Quaidis]

Although, I find it funny that you call the Gerudos Muslim when they're all scantily clad ninja pirate women.

They were not pirates until Majora's Mask...

Anyway, the only real flaw in their outfits is that they are not covering their heads.
In Islam, that's what you do to remind yourself that God is always there. Men are supposed to do it, too. Covering the rest of one's body is both a gesture of modesty and just plain practicality in the desert.

To anyone who thinks that Islam is a extremely sexist religion-
its not.

The Koran allowes for divorce, for women to own property and perscribes dowries. Mohummad, the prophet of Islam, had multiple wives, but he worked for his first wife, years his senior, and later became her business partner.
In most aspects, Islam is far more progressive than Christianity. Its the Christians who caused all the religious problems, anyway.

(If I made a few mistakes when describing Mohummad or the information in the Koran, I apologise. I doubt anyone who really followed the text would be insulted, though.)

And they were never really ninja

That's confusing. Are you saying that extremist fundamentalist Muslims are in fact not being fundamentalist? Are you sure that's explicitly what the Koran says and isn't just one interpretation?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational here, by the way, I'm just curious. I've heard the argument before that Islam is in fact not sexist, and I'm inclined to believe that this is the case, but that doesn't change the state of affairs in places like Saudi Arabia.

I thought I would make a correction to one of those quotes above: the Koran has many many different interpretations, and how it's interpreted depends on where you are (some places are extremely sexist, while others are not). One interpretation is that women are property. Another, using the same words of the Koran, believe that women (their beauty) is powerful and must be preserved. In most cases, a woman must wear clothing to cover their entire body, especially their facial features, to prevent men from lusting over them. In some cultures, even the eyes are covered by a black shade.

This is taken different ways by both sexes. Some men believe that if a woman is not covering anything from her face to her eyebrows to her hands, the woman then cannot complain if she is raped as she has allowed the men to lust. If the woman chooses not to cloth her face, in extreme cases, she can be disowned. If a woman divorces or plays hookie, she might be killed - especially in the latter case. But in some areas, this is not nearly as harsh and women are allowed to walk around without their face covered - however they must keep everything else covered (including hair).

Women go either way. Some believe that they are given the right to wear the garments to protect their beauty from all but the one they marry. Others believe they have the right to go without covering their faces because it is their power to choose. It all depends on where you are and how they interpret the Koran.

In almost all cases, the public image is much friendlier. There are 'single men only' parts to restaurants, bars, and diners to keep unwed men from going near women. Women are now allowed to have jobs in some parts, as well as other common rights.


Now I am not going to put a real word in for what this thread is discussing. This is clearly a bait thread and there are not enough solid facts to back up what the thread maker is assuming.

 

[Erana]

Here's the biggest reason that Ganon is not, in fact, Muslim.

The big islamic phrase is, "There is no God but God," right?
What does he claim to be in the Twilight Princess?
Anyway, he uses the power of a not-Allah god, so...

Anyway, I haven't ever seen him pray at all, dispite the fact that you're supposed to do it five times a day.

 

[Forsooth and Pi]

Pish, this is old news, people. Check out my thread on the subject on another forum [http://elounge.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=8339&view=findpost&p=5815753].

Or read the copypasta right here:

For those of you who have played Zelda: Twilight Princess, you are surely familiar with this picture of the titular princess:

Compare her attire to the chador, the full body robe religious Muslim women need to wear:

Merely a coincidence? I think not! From the scarf to the robe, the only thing missing is the veil. Clearly there are political connotations here at work. By having Zelda wear this garment during her isolation after Hyrule was taken over reveals her submissive nature, giving in the the male authority as she hides in fear. Zelda reveals her face only to Link, and in private; only when the authoritarian regime is toppled, or almost toppled, can she take off the garb. At first she is afraid, and guilty for what she had done, but when Link first arrives she obtains the courage to show her face and defeat the evil that has plagued the land.

Clearly, the game is a metaphor for the Islamic regimes in the Middle East.

Or maybe not.

 

[EzraPound]

That said I can't see the point to this thread. Maybe I misunderstand what discussion is, but you telling us you researched and found something to be true doesn't really spell out "discuss!" to me, and the only reason why this got any replies is because some people chose to question the validity of your sources.

Well, apparently it has promoted discussion, so I'll consider your query moot.

Now I am not going to put a real word in for what this thread is discussing. This is clearly a bait thread and there are not enough solid facts to back up what the thread maker is assuming.

I didn't mean that Ganon was literally Muslim, merely that the stylization of Ganon and the Gerudos at large suggests some inspiration from Medieval-era Islamic cultures. Which is fairly obvious, if you've read the points I've brought forth in this thread (for the record: I don't believe the Gerudos are 'Muslim' because of the fact they live in deserts and have the moon and stars for a symbol any more than I believe the Hylians are 'Christian' because they reside in countryside castles and use swords).

Clearly, the game is a metaphor for the Islamic regimes in the Middle East.

I wouldn't take it that far, though I would say that OoT seems to suggest a favouritism towards historic European empires over Islamic ones, which is fair enough - in the Medieval wars between the Christians and Muslims, for example, the Christians were generally trying to prevent Europe from holistic takeover (excepting the crusades, of course) while the Muslims were usually the aggressors.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this part of the message, since the rest only shows the American anti-Muslim propaganda has clearly worked a bit too well on this person.

Funny, since I'm not contending that Muslims are inferior to Christians in any way, nor do I consider myself a supporter of 'anti-Islamofascist' factions.

 

[Isaac Dodgson]

The muslim chant in the game (grandfather had a cartridge that still had the chant btw) was not chosen on purpose for the muslim chant, same thing that has happened recently with with Little big Planet. The song was meant to give a middle eastern temple ancient like theme, but by no means meant to denote a islamic theme. That thin and usually blurred line was never meant to be crossed.

Sure, the game has it's parallels to middle eastern culture, but i don't see anything that ties the game in it's entirety to islamic tradition, and what little parts that do, do it so vaguely that those could only be considered arabic at that point and not so much islamic.