Gay in The Last of Us: Left Behind (SPOILERS)

[Longing]

You do know that there's not a definitive look that lesbians like right? You don't have the same 'tastes' as them.

And anyways, Ellie's sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the game so it's not like they retconned it. I haven't played the dlc yet, but if they really did make her gay and didn't make a big deal of it, then fucking good.

That's kind of what I hope for in at least. I felt it was rather explicit about her attraction but I suppose interpretation is always worth while.

Also speaking as a lesbian, I feel my tastes align a lot with those of my straight male friends. Certainly there are variations but I don't think lesbians as a group differ to terribly much what most men find aesthetically attractive.

Yeah, but I just meant that there's nothing lesbians all find attractive as a whole. They don't all like Ellen Page. I just found the statement weirdly worded.

 

[Animyr]

I don't see an inherent problem with it. Judging from the reviews thus far the story is worthy of the main game though, so I'm not too worried.

 

[The Material Sheep]

You do know that there's not a definitive look that lesbians like right? You don't have the same 'tastes' as them.

And anyways, Ellie's sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the game so it's not like they retconned it. I haven't played the dlc yet, but if they really did make her gay and didn't make a big deal of it, then fucking good.

That's kind of what I hope for in at least. I felt it was rather explicit about her attraction but I suppose interpretation is always worth while.

Also speaking as a lesbian, I feel my tastes align a lot with those of my straight male friends. Certainly there are variations but I don't think lesbians as a group differ to terribly much what most men find aesthetically attractive.

Yeah, but I just meant that there's nothing lesbians all find attractive as a whole. They don't all like Ellen Page. I just found the statement weirdly worded.

Oh for sure and I didn't mean to state otherwise. This is really funny though because I had a crush on Ellen Page in High School after seeing X-Men Last Stand. Movie was lame but she still helped me contextualize my attraction to women. WHO WOULD OF THOUGHT!?

 

[Imp_Emissary]

xD HAHAHAHA!

Wow. Some people sure are freaking out about this.

And here I thought people mostly only went crazy over gay men.

At any rate, gay, bi, whatever. Ellie is freaking awesome!

Does any of the stuff that happens in the DLC prequel factor in any way in the main game?

Do you mean if you do well it will change events in the rest of the game? Or do you mean story relevance?
No to the first, yes to the second.

The DLC is pretty much half "the last time Ellie saw Riley", and half "what she did after Joel was injured". Switching from one to the other as you go.

One other neat thing is you get to use infected to kill hunters, and vice versa if you stay hidden.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Does any of the stuff that happens in the DLC prequel factor in any way in the main game?

Do you mean if you do well it will change events in the rest of the game? Or do you mean story relevance?
No to the first, yes to the second.

The DLC is pretty much half "the last time Ellie saw Riley", and half "what she did after Joel was injured". Switching from one to the other as you go.

One other neat thing is you get to use infected to kill hunters, and vice versa if you stay hidden.

I meant if anything that happens in the DLC is reflected in The Last of Us, story-wise. Is Riley mentioned in The Last of Us, does the main game at some point talk about her love life, stuff like that.

 

[josemlopes]

I thought it was so fucking dumb!

It establishes a relationship between the two that you'd think would've impacted Ellie more than it seems to have in the main story. So now she's actually in love with Riley?! Whether it's genuine or just confusion, Ellie seems to think it's the former. This presumed young love then gets cut short when they both get bitten, but only Riley dies of it (which we don't even get to see). Ellie is then in no way scarred by her first infatuation dying, probably in front of her, only shortly after she confessed it.

And apart from that this just smacked of 'Let's make Ellie gay, the guys'll love it.'

So yeah, I'm gonna notch Left Behind under the 'Fuck you, that didn't happen' catagory.

What I hate to see is how we can't have a genuine lesbian character without someone mentioning it was just put in there for male fan service. Love it. Guys like gay women, therefore all gay women in games are there to appeal sexually to men. No decision was made for genuine interest in making the character gay, it was just trying to appeal to horny men.

Even though the girls in question are freaking 15 years old... seriously wtf.

I dont really think that was the kind of service that was being mentioned, I think its more because of the fact that being progressive, if forced, can be seen as a way to gather and please a big bunch of people.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Does any of the stuff that happens in the DLC prequel factor in any way in the main game?

Do you mean if you do well it will change events in the rest of the game? Or do you mean story relevance?
No to the first, yes to the second.

The DLC is pretty much half "the last time Ellie saw Riley", and half "what she did after Joel was injured". Switching from one to the other as you go.

One other neat thing is you get to use infected to kill hunters, and vice versa if you stay hidden.

I meant if anything that happens in the DLC is reflected in The Last of Us, story-wise. Is Riley mentioned in The Last of Us, does the main game at some point talk about her love life, stuff like that.

AH! Okay.

Short answer: Yes they mention Riley, but Ellie doesn't say she was in love with her.

Spoiler: Longer answer, warning: spoilers stuff.

Yes. Very VERY late in the game you find out about Riley (earlier if you look through Ellie's stuff in one part). Though, Ellie doesn't say that she likes girls(or boys, xD though, there is a funny bit with a "dude mag").

Ellie: xD "WOW! How would he walk around with that thing?!"

Though, she calls Riley her best friend, not her girlfriend. That said, as you may have guessed, even if she really did want to be with Riley like that, their time together got cut short pretty much right after she kissed Riley.

Otherwise, they don't ever have Ellie make it obvious what she likes in a partner. As others have said, it wasn't really part of the story.

There's another gay character in the game too, before the DLC came out. However, being "the gay guy" ins't his character.
Same for Ellie. Which is why I think both are pretty well done, all things considered.

And other than it kind of being addressed in this DLC, her sexuality isn't what I'd call a "big part of the story". Just another detail.

The big focus of the DLC is much like the rest of the game. "Why/how we try to survive."

Hope that answers your questions. As more if you need more.
It just happens to have a bit of a young lesbian love story in it too.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I thought it was so fucking dumb!

It establishes a relationship between the two that you'd think would've impacted Ellie more than it seems to have in the main story. So now she's actually in love with Riley?! Whether it's genuine or just confusion, Ellie seems to think it's the former. This presumed young love then gets cut short when they both get bitten, but only Riley dies of it (which we don't even get to see). Ellie is then in no way scarred by her first infatuation dying, probably in front of her, only shortly after she confessed it.

And apart from that this just smacked of 'Let's make Ellie gay, the guys'll love it.'

So yeah, I'm gonna notch Left Behind under the 'Fuck you, that didn't happen' catagory.

...

NO.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Ellie had her time to mourn, she wasn't that open with Joel to share this info with him. In the time that it took for them to eventually bond, she would of gotten over it by then. Plus, why we do we need to see Riley turn into a zombie. We're intelligent enough to assume what happens afterwards. She's not scarred because she's had people die around her. Death happens, attempted rape and losing your fucking mind hadn't happened to her yet and has been the only event to truly hurt Ellie. And even then she picks herself back up and becomes more determined. It speaks volume of the character. Volumes that went way over your head...

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

People overuse the " gay " lable.

considering her age she is in a curious experimentation phase.

with the situation of the world and her trouble with making friends its natural she would desire to be closer to Reily.

then with the magazine curisosity, Sam she was happy to see another person of around her age.

I think she wanted a new freind more than a romantic interest but who knows.

If anything shes closer to bi

but ultimatly.

Gender, Sexuality, Age, Ethnicity, NONE of these make a ok character better or a great character PERFECT.

these are things that add to a character but dont define a character.

in the gaming worlds and realife

1. It didn't make her character perfect, but it added dimensions to her character. So... YEAH.

2. I'm starting to really hate this "She's just experimenting phase". It seems kinda disrespectful. Why can't she just be gay, it seems like we're really downplaying this as to not give them credit for it or acknowledge someone's sexuality, but maybe I'm just overreacting, again.

3. The thing that really confirmed that Sam was a love interest of Ellie is when she's giving her last words and she says and I quote "Everyone was doing good out there, especially you." I know writing that down that could be taken as anything, but go back and watch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

You do know that there's not a definitive look that lesbians like right? You don't have the same 'tastes' as them.

And anyways, Ellie's sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the game so it's not like they retconned it. I haven't played the dlc yet, but if they really did make her gay and didn't make a big deal of it, then fucking good.

They didn't, don't worry.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Does any of the stuff that happens in the DLC prequel factor in any way in the main game?

Do you mean if you do well it will change events in the rest of the game? Or do you mean story relevance?
No to the first, yes to the second.

The DLC is pretty much half "the last time Ellie saw Riley", and half "what she did after Joel was injured". Switching from one to the other as you go.

One other neat thing is you get to use infected to kill hunters, and vice versa if you stay hidden.

I meant if anything that happens in the DLC is reflected in The Last of Us, story-wise. Is Riley mentioned in The Last of Us, does the main game at some point talk about her love life, stuff like that.

She's mentioned in the end with her talk to Joel as the first person that died that she truly cared about.

 

[King Billi]

I dont really think that was the kind of service that was being mentioned, I think its more because of the fact that being progressive, if forced, can be seen as a way to gather and please a big bunch of people.

The fact is that this entire "controversy" for lack of a better word all comes down to a brief little character moment which has little to no relevance to the overall story. The fact that Ellie and Riley may care about each other as more than friends is never explicitly admitted by either of them, they never really had a chance to find out. The possibility of it dosen't make the story any more or less tragic. It's just a touching little character moment that may mean more for some people if they choose to see it that way.

For alot of people though just the fact that it happened at all is enough for it to be "forced" or "pandering".

 

[Sack of Cheese]

My friend just linked me an interview with the creators last night, interesting stuff: http://au.ign.com/videos/2014/02/14/the-last-of-us-left-behind-spoilercast
I was a bit surprised, but yeah, puppy love, it's kinda cute!

 

[The_Echo]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

 

[Autumnflame]

You do know that there's not a definitive look that lesbians like right? You don't have the same 'tastes' as them.

And anyways, Ellie's sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the game so it's not like they retconned it. I haven't played the dlc yet, but if they really did make her gay and didn't make a big deal of it, then fucking good.

They didn't, don't worry.

The game never explicitly stated she was.
if anything her behaviour suggested bi sexuality.

and males and females in their early teens often experiment with " both sides"

Her being Gay would not stregthen or weaken her character any more than if she were bi, straight or some form of transgender/intersex.

The entire point was for you to make up your own mind of whats going on. not froce your preconceptions of the character on everyone

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

Those are completely different things situations. It truly doesn't matter if Dumbledore is gay or not. It doesn't affect the story in any way, shape, or form. This is different, it changes a story of friendship to a love story. Going through the DLC a second time really made it better with the idea that it was a love story, and yeah it adds another dynamic to the character. So I disagree.

 

[JupiterBase]

Yeah, it never suggested thats the way she may orient herself. Taking into account their age it seems more like a spur of the moment thing. They are all each other have had in a fucked up world.

EDIT: also in some places a kiss on the lips is simply a show of affection with out any other connotations or meanings. Here in America a lot of over thinking is put into how two people physically interact with each other.

 

[Saetha]

Ellie's a lesbian? Huh. Well, would'ya look at that.

Spoiler

...Wait, she makes out with Riley? She makes out with RILEY? Why? Well, I mean, I know why, because she's attracted to her, but why? I'm about halfway through the DLC and I already despise this character. She's like the epitome of every stupid teenager to ever exist. Drinking irresponsibly (They're in the middle of a zombie-infested mall. And they're fifteen, so they're probably light-weights, too) pushing others around when they don't fall in line (Her getting all pissy when Ellie didn't play along with the roaring) doing some mind-blowing stupid stunts (Hey, let's turn all the mall's power on! I know there are soldiers out looking for us and they may very well know precisely where the circuit breaker is, so let's give them the equivalent of a flashing neon sign saying "Intruders here! Come and get us!") She's that cocksure, alpha-male asshole you find at any highschool, pushing her friends around and being hideously irresponsible. And Ellie's attracted to HER? She just... seems like such a massive jerk.

God I hate Riley. God, I hate teenagers. No offense, OP. But I remember enough of high school to remember that I hate teenagers.

 

[Saetha]

Yeah, it never suggested thats the way she may orient herself. Taking into account their age it seems more like a spur of the moment thing. They are all each other have had in a fucked up world.

EDIT: also in some places a kiss on the lips is simply a show of affection with out any other connotations or meanings. Here in America a lot of over thinking is put into how two people physically interact with each other.

It's in a game set in America that follows American values in nearly every other situation. I'm pretty sure that they didn't intend for it to come off as a friendly, affectionate kiss between buddies.

I suppose the "She's experimenting" theory's valid, though.

 

[Raggedstar]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

Pretty much this. Ellie's sexuality was never important or a point of interest. That scene didn't really go anywhere, so it just kinda got a reaction of "...huh, ok" from me. Bill was led on a bit more and had a bigger impact to who he was and how he got into his situation (it also helped that he was very mysterious and we were only just acquainted with him). Not a huge shock kind of impact, but it did give more of an impact to his relationship with Frank. Ellie and Riley's relationship and behaviour in the DLC would've been the same even if they were just best friends minus the kiss (Ellie even said "I'll be your friend again if you gave me a dinosaur").

On that note, years ago I stopped reading a series of kid/teen fantasy books (not worth the spoiler tag to just name it, so I'll be vague). Recently one of the characters that has been around since when I originally read it came out to be gay and there was a shitstorm about it. While I didn't throw a fit, I kind of had a similar reaction that I did with Ellie (the selected passage I read said that the character the entire time had a bit of a crush on another male character in the book). Slightly unrelated, but I also remember seeing a lot of people fuss over Telltale's Walking Dead because while they showed a bunch of well-written minorities usually neglected in games (characters ranging from women, African Americans, Asians, Middle Eastern people, and children) it's somehow a missed opportunity to not have any gays. It's as if it's some kind of checklist or whatnot.

Druckmann and the team don't seem like the kind of people to bait male fanservice or do this for an disingenuous publicity. They put a lot of work to build Ellie as such a likable character in the original campaign, so I doubt they were doing it to yell "Hey! Look at our game with the lesbians!" And they already have shown they're "progressive" through the good press they've had with Bill and their female characters so they shouldn't have at least felt the need to do it for those reasons. I'm not mad or calling it a retcon, but it wasn't necessary and doesn't add a whole lot to how I see her. Their moments together were so cute and I actually preferred it to the more current story. It was fun to see them joking around together instead of me huddling in a corner waiting for a clicker to shuffle away. It's confirmed that Ellie had an attraction to Riley, but we don't know if it was mutual (they said they had a fight and there were a lot of questions about forgiveness throughout the story. The way the questions kept coming up again and again may have hinted something closer and more intimate). We also don't know if this is really her sexuality or whether the emotions and teenager hormones were flaring up (this could have been the last time Ellie saw Riley and/or would be able to hang out).

So ya, not mad, but I'm not sure what we gained through all this.