Gay Marriage and AIDS

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I did read the OP, including the hilarious "I'm bi so my opinion is valid", it smacks of "I have a black friend so I'm not racist".

Actually, I didn't say I was bi. I said a lot more than that.

"I'm not against homosexuality (my gender is about as liquid as water, I'm bisexual and my primary attraction is to transgender females, lol) and think gay marriage should be allowed from sheer common sense. I'm just wondering if this sort of increase would occur."

But hey, if you can't argue, try to lie, right? Lol.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**snip**

Actually, greater acceptance and openness would NOT increase the rate of HIV spreading. Here's why.

Secrecy = more HIV.

Acceptance = more open dialogue = less HIV.

Right now, there are still many gay and bisexual men who hide their preference, only to sneak out and engage in highly risky behavior.

It isn't gay relationships that spread HIV - it's gay one-night-stands.

People will always have casual sex, but when you're having secret casual sex, you're far less likely to take precautions or ASK your partner about their HIV status. The openly gay community has gotten pretty good about checking with new potential partners about their condition, but the closeted community either doesn't KNOW to ask, or doesn't feel comfortable asking.

Either way, bringing homosexual relationships further into accepted human society can only help the issue by reducing secrecy and encouraging stable long-term relationships.

Also, since you brought it up Gay Marriage - the last time I checked, the Constitution's 14th Amendment (of America, the only place I can really argue about) says that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (US Constitution [http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14]) Denying homosexual couples the right to marry makes them second class citizens, and that is forbidden under the stipulations of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Thus any State where gay-marriage is not already legal is in violation.

So yeah, not only is your hypothesis absurd, but any laws banning gay marriage are blatantly unconstitutional.

Edit: Oh, and since you just mentioned that you are part of the gay/bisexual community and are pro-gay marriage, then good - I'm extra glad I gave you that quote and link then. More ammo for you to use in the future. And if anyone brings up this HIV argument, you can use my post (and the posts of others in this thread) to give them a good smacking down.

 

[King of Asgaard]

One begets the other, but I won't say which.
OT: I think that if there is a change, it wouldn't be very noticeable.

 

[Aprilgold]

id think marriage would encourage monogamy so less spreading?

at least i would think so.

Well were more open to aids because Sex can happen more often.

This reduces the chance of infection for that proportion of people compared to now where there is no marriage at all.

That's right, there is no marriage. And? You trying to suggest gay couples don't stay together now? They need a marriage license to form a committed relationship? I can't wait to see you try to backflip on that one. You couldn't have stuck your foot in your mouth any harder, lol.

Think about what you say before you say it, please.

Also, again, this ins't about the marriage. If you really did read, you would see that mentioned several times already.

He probably didn't mean what you said, because that sounds like your just randomly guessing at what he means. If gay marrige was legal, homosexual sex along with lesbian sex could be taught, allowing for safer love-making.

----------- ------------------ --------------------- ---------------------- -------------------

I don't think that people are overlooking the fact that Gay Marriage doesn't need to happen for gay sex, and that gay sex doesn't mean instant HIV. Also realize that, if Homosexual Sex is actually taught in classrooms, people will be better informed so STI's and HIV's will drop in numbers.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

lies

Funny that you snipped the bit after that, you know, where I say "I said a lot more than that." But hey, you were too busy trying to prove a purposeful misconception.

If you're gonna flat out lie and attempt (and fail) to create straw men... I dunno. Try harder?

This isn't about marriage.

*looks at thread title*

Gay Marriage and AIDS

Oh really...

Oh dear, you did it again--skimmed the surface and made a silly billy of yourself.

Here you go, as you seem to be having a lot of difficulty reading and understanding some of the words, I'll give you the important part: "The theory being that the de-demonizing (totally not a word, but whatever) of homosexuality and the awareness of a more general acceptance would cause more men (and women) to openly express themselves and feel less trepidation about embracing their sexuality. Given that homosexual sex, namely anal sex, due to the thin walling of the anus cavity, has a much greater likelihood of small tears and blood leakage forming than vaginal or oral sex, more gay sex would indeed pertain to more incidents, yes?"

And again: "Wouldn't more general acceptance encourage more open behavior? For example, if playing D&D became "cool," wouldn't the people who pay D&D do it more and more openly? Wouldn't people who have thought about it, but never done it, also feel brave enough to give it a go? Many people fear "coming out" or even acting on their feelings at all. Gay people are still beaten, abused, disowned and murdered, sadly."

You see how that works? Marriage isn't the point; the effect of marriage is the point. It being more socially acceptable to be gay would encourage gay men who live in the closet to "come out." Now, we know for a fact that AIDS/HIV is more prevalent in the gay community than the hetero community, so more people "coming out" and entering the gay community would mean... Yes! More people exposing themselves to a higher chance of contracting AIDS. The entire point, which you breezed over in your attempt to paint me as anything but supportive of gay rights and marriage, is just how much of an increase in AIDS and HIV cases would there be?

You're welcome

 

[dyre]

I'm going to bite even though this is a close running second for silliest question of the year award.

See here is the thing....

They are still having sex even though they aren't married....

But what about all those "no sex before marriage" homosexuals? We need to keep them apart by banning gay marriage so they never have sex and get AIDS D:

 

[dyre]

Your concern [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#Concern_troll] has been noted.

That's interesting...I never knew that was a real thing, but OP fits the category perfectly

 

[Something Amyss]

I was thinking, given that it is a sad reality that homosexual men are much more likely to have and in effect pass on HIV/AIDS

Actually, the highest risk group is blacks, especially black women.

Do you feel banning black marriage is worth discussing?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I was thinking, given that it is a sad reality that homosexual men are much more likely to have and in effect pass on HIV/AIDS

Actually, the highest risk group is blacks, especially black women.

Do you feel banning black marriage is worth discussing?

Um, who said anything about banning anything? Did you make an assumption? You did! Naughty.

Remember: read the OP before commenting. "Note: I'm not against homosexuality (my gender is about as liquid as water, I'm bisexual and my primary attraction is to transgender females, lol) and think gay marriage should be allowed from sheer common sense. I'm just wondering if this sort of increase would occur."

 

[spartan231490]

Not really. Legalization of gay marriage isn't going to affect the number of homosexual individuals, and frankly, monogamous homosexuals have only a slightly higher chance of having HIV than monogamous heterosexuals, so if anything, legalizing gay marriage might reduce incidences of HIV/AIDS by increasing the number of long-term monogamous pairings between homosexuals(though I doubt it would have any effect at all).

 

[JayElleBee]

Actually, the highest risk group is blacks, especially black women.

Do you feel banning black marriage is worth discussing?

What I came to say. ^

I remember reading a study about the prevalence of AIDs in various demographics and straight black women were specifically far more likely to be infected than homosexual Hispanic men. It's not fair at all to make a generalising statement like 'gay men are more likely to have AIDs' when in some cases, that's not true. Gay men might be more likely to have AIDs than some demographics, but they're less likely to have it than others.

Anyway, before anyone gets any ideas about me being interested in a full-blown debate, I'm just gonna say this:

If we spend all our time quibbling about the what-ifs, we'll never get anything done.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Yeah, that's right. You got me! I'm a liar, that's it. My agenda this whole time was to paint you as bisexual when in fact you aren't despite you labeling yourself as one. Yep, that's it. Yep, you got me.

Tsk, tsk. You are still trying to build a straw man? How silly. You're trying very hard to ignore the context of my comment so that you may "one up" me and prove a point against something that was never made. Rather than admit you originally tried to mock my assertion of bisexuality as a, in your mind, shield to make any comment I like against homosexuality, you continue on this little exercise. Are you really that scared of being proven wrong?

My exact words were "I didn't say I was bi. I said a lot more than that." The former revokes the limiting terms you tried to impose on my words and the latter refers to the section you chose to ignore to better paint me in a light you so chose.

Your argument: "'I'm bi so my opinion is valid', it smacks of 'I have a black friend so I'm not racist.'"

The actual point: I said I was much more involved in homosexuality than you cared to admit. Being bi was part of it, having an ever changing gender and a preference for individuals born physically male and later transitioning to female, makes up the greater portion.

If you ever want to actually act like an adult and drop this little act, I'm here. But for now I'm going to bed. Nighty, hun.

 

[Something Amyss]

"Note: I'm not against homosexuality (my gender is about as liquid as water, I'm bisexual and my primary attraction is to transgender females, lol) and think gay marriage should be allowed from sheer common sense.

But you are bringing gay marriage to discussion based on, in large part, the understanding that "gays are a high risk group."

I merely brought up the analogue, which seems to have made you hostile. I read your post. This is, as my girlfriend said, "striking at the heart" of what you're saying.

Also, being bisexual and gender queer doesn't change anything. For example, you may not have anything against homosexuals, but you are discussing gay marriage in relation to a falsehood about gays and AIDS.

Now, answer the question. Would this even come up as an issue if we were talking blacks?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

Serious question. If all marriage was banned in all countries and all current marriages disolved, do you think the total amount of sex the world over would decrease? Im going to go ahead and say lol no.

I doubt it. I think the fact that some gay people (my gay friend has discussed this feeling with me) feel so pressured to have sex with many partners in secret is that publicly persuing a real meaningfull relationship is so hard in todays social climate. They dont feel that its as easy to be in a long term relationship. The fact that their marriage is banned probably contributes to this. I think if being gay was perfectly acceptable and gay marriage was allowed then we would see FAR more long term gay relationships rather than the existing steriotype of many partners. This would decrease AIDS frequency.