Gay Marriage, Child Molestors, Torture, Abortion & Nihilism
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You've been able to have gay marriages in The Sims for a long time, perhaps even in the first game, I know AT LEAST since the Sims 2. Coming from someone who's put hundreds of hours into these games.chuckdm said:
Again, purely implied- never actually demonstrated.Pyramid Head said:
"Look at the poor jabbering insane man in a completely sealed body suit! *See* how he's suffered! *Hear* the pain in his voice. Doesn't he just sound totally distraught? ... You still here? Go shoot some robots in the face."
That's just being asinine. Torture is torture, regardless of the method used. "Face shoved into an electro-zappy plate? Eh... not TRADITIONAL enough!" Is that to imply that one's taste is somehow "refined" by observing "old-school" methods?DoPo said:
In Dragon Age Origins DLC "Leliana's Song": While escaping the dungeons, Leliana finds her dwarf companion Tug dead, lying on a bloody stretching table, having been tortured to death while keeping the guards distracted from Sketch, as they threatened to cut off his hands. This is clearly "addressing" the subject of torture without "focusing" on it. It even features a "traditional" method, albeit downplayed due to the minimal graphical representation. Does this meet the OC's criteria, or is it rejected for some arbitrary reason that the OC has failed to specify?
As I said, I'm not sure, as I haven't played those. Dark Souls strikes me as hard rather than torture. As far as I'm aware, it is just really difficult, rather than having a take on torture itself. I could very well be wrong, too. And I'm even less familiar with Catherinem but it still didn't strike me as torture, as far as I know it's...something to do with relationships.Kimarous said:
If the games do feature torture - psychological or physical, then fine. I was just trying to clarify OP's meaning.
Business, and just a lack of ambition and talent, probably.
Not every developer has writers talented enough to tackle heavy themes in a meaningful way that doesn't just...:
Play for shock and horror (child molestation,)
Champion a real-life, current, immersion-breaking agenda (gay marriage,)
Take sides in a "gray area" theme (Torture, abortion, nihilism)
It's hard to have gay marriage, torture, child molestation, abortion and/or nihilism in a game without soapboxing to some degree...
Not every developer has writers talented enough to tackle heavy themes in a meaningful way that doesn't just...:
Play for shock and horror (child molestation,)
Champion a real-life, current, immersion-breaking agenda (gay marriage,)
Take sides in a "gray area" theme (Torture, abortion, nihilism)
It's hard to have gay marriage, torture, child molestation, abortion and/or nihilism in a game without soapboxing to some degree...
Perhaps the reason they don't have them that often is because they don't want to do them.
Think about it, if you want to make something, you want to make it something you enjoy working on, and playing, and this is very subjective. Making something specifically to have a point or address a specific point in it is a really bad idea regardless of what the point is, and people just won't include certain points in their work if they don't want it to be there, I don't think it's a matter of it being a touchy subject, to me it's more the developers personal preference.
Apparently the captcha likes my argument, just look at it if you disagree: save it.
Think about it, if you want to make something, you want to make it something you enjoy working on, and playing, and this is very subjective. Making something specifically to have a point or address a specific point in it is a really bad idea regardless of what the point is, and people just won't include certain points in their work if they don't want it to be there, I don't think it's a matter of it being a touchy subject, to me it's more the developers personal preference.
Apparently the captcha likes my argument, just look at it if you disagree: save it.
Funny, I found that there is a flash game called Torture game. Several parts. The first is about dipping a person in a vat of acid, or carving them up, or flaying their skin. The second features a better model (more ragdoll-y) and offers additional options, like shooting them or...painting them. It was amusing for about a couple of minutes, though.Mikeyfell said:
Could be, haven't played it either.Mikeyfell said:
I can think of several games with torture but none cover OP's expectations. Although, torture is portrayed in a bad light (Arcanum has a quite disturbing section with the whole half-ogre questline), it's not that graphical. OP did give Saw as example...I can't think of a game that does just that.
Ok, fair enough, you want games to address these topics. What do you mean by addressing them though? To include them? To say they're right/wrong?Emiscary said:
Just so we're on the same page, "addressing" a topic generally means saying something about it. It's not enough to just include it. So when you say you want games to address the topics, you want them to say something about them?
As far as torture goes, Black Ops has plenty. At one point you put glass in a guy's mouth and then punch him in the face to break the glass in his mouth. Are you saying you want more games like that? A game that's mainly about that?
Also, how would you suggest a game address the others? Black Ops style? Abortion, marriage/gay marriage and molesting are all story elements more than anything else...so what kind of game are you looking for?
For example, what would a game be like if it were about nihilism? From what I've heard, Mass Effect 3 is a bit nihilistic. If you could clear up what exactly you're looking for it'd be helpful because just saying games should address them is vague. Or it's confusing to me anyways, maybe I'm just missing something.
One last thing too...why do games need to include these topics to be "mature"? Because that's what the other mediums are doing? What if the other mediums didn't include those topics, would they still be mature?
The media gets all touchy and annoying when you put anything that might be described as controversial
Nope, torture doesn't show up in games at all.
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So since I posited that a hypothetical game based on Kojika could actually address some of these, I've been thinking about just how these subjects would come into play. I figure I might as well vomit up my thoughts on it.
Obviously, child molestation is the easy one given the source material. There are several relationships and events to explore, a multitude of ways to approach the issue, plenty of stuff there for a mature and compelling discussion.
Gay Marriage could be worked into it in a couple of ways. If a timeskip is involved, there could be a storyline where Rin finally opens up to Kuro's advances and the relationship progresses all the way to marriage, or Rin (or heck, Kuro, though that'd be a stretch) could pursue Mimi. There could even be--with or without timeskip--a storyline where Shirai-sensei and Kuro hook up, which could combine with the child molestation point (hooray, a twofer).
As for nihilism, that could come from a few sources, most prominently Reiji. Nihilism would not be a surprising trait--past, present, or future--of his character. A possibly more interesting source might be Aoki, turning to nihilism as he struggles with his feelings for Rin, though to be honest it doesn't seem to be in his character. It'd probably take something...dramatic for that to happen.
Still got no idea how it could be anything other than a viz novel [small](not that there's anything wrong with VNs)[/small] though. It's not like the source material's prime fodder for a TPS. I guess if you had a dev team on crack, they could make something Catherine-esque maybe.
For something potentially less squicky (but with much less potential for exploring multiple issues), a game could be based on characters from Hanamaru Kindergarten. Wait, wait, let me explain: the mother of one of the main characters in HK married her high school art teacher. It's implied they became lovers before she even graduated. The story could focus on this relationship--a prequel to the manga/anime if you will--and presto, you've got to deal with perceived or actual child molestation (age of consent varies by prefecture) and possibly abortion (which, IIRC, was briefly mentioned in the anime, though obviously she decided against it).
...you could even transplant the story to America, what with the recent case of a high school teacher and student moving in together and ending up like someone's idea of a HK darkfic. >.>
Obviously, child molestation is the easy one given the source material. There are several relationships and events to explore, a multitude of ways to approach the issue, plenty of stuff there for a mature and compelling discussion.
Gay Marriage could be worked into it in a couple of ways. If a timeskip is involved, there could be a storyline where Rin finally opens up to Kuro's advances and the relationship progresses all the way to marriage, or Rin (or heck, Kuro, though that'd be a stretch) could pursue Mimi. There could even be--with or without timeskip--a storyline where Shirai-sensei and Kuro hook up, which could combine with the child molestation point (hooray, a twofer).
As for nihilism, that could come from a few sources, most prominently Reiji. Nihilism would not be a surprising trait--past, present, or future--of his character. A possibly more interesting source might be Aoki, turning to nihilism as he struggles with his feelings for Rin, though to be honest it doesn't seem to be in his character. It'd probably take something...dramatic for that to happen.
Still got no idea how it could be anything other than a viz novel [small](not that there's anything wrong with VNs)[/small] though. It's not like the source material's prime fodder for a TPS. I guess if you had a dev team on crack, they could make something Catherine-esque maybe.
For something potentially less squicky (but with much less potential for exploring multiple issues), a game could be based on characters from Hanamaru Kindergarten. Wait, wait, let me explain: the mother of one of the main characters in HK married her high school art teacher. It's implied they became lovers before she even graduated. The story could focus on this relationship--a prequel to the manga/anime if you will--and presto, you've got to deal with perceived or actual child molestation (age of consent varies by prefecture) and possibly abortion (which, IIRC, was briefly mentioned in the anime, though obviously she decided against it).
...you could even transplant the story to America, what with the recent case of a high school teacher and student moving in together and ending up like someone's idea of a HK darkfic. >.>
You see, that is interesting haha. But why only with a female main character? And why would they take something like that part out if you are gonna leave in the first part?kingpocky said:
Actually I think I know the answers to those questions, but I don't like those answers. Consider me annoyed.
Well, even the hyperbolic hypersensitives who wants to ban anything that offends them would shut up, I doubt you'll find abortion or child molestation in any AAA game anyway.
It's thematics that's just very hard to construct gameplay around, "Press X to scrape fetus" just doesn't appeal to a whole lot of people. So the interactive element isn't really doing much for them, and thus there's no reason for them to make the jump to mainstream gaming.
Nihilism have been featured, as have gay marriage in ways where it's simply there as a natural part of the game world. Torture crops up in the later Call of Duty games as well. So those have made their way to the AAA game scene.
It's thematics that's just very hard to construct gameplay around, "Press X to scrape fetus" just doesn't appeal to a whole lot of people. So the interactive element isn't really doing much for them, and thus there's no reason for them to make the jump to mainstream gaming.
Nihilism have been featured, as have gay marriage in ways where it's simply there as a natural part of the game world. Torture crops up in the later Call of Duty games as well. So those have made their way to the AAA game scene.
Isn't every game where you are fighting those pesky rebels/insurgents/terrorist but end up switching sides because they are "a-ok", a nihilist themed game?
Hell, aren't most games that have you fight a oppressive authority a nihilist themed game (Half-life 3 anyone?)
Or am I just not getting it?
Hell, aren't most games that have you fight a oppressive authority a nihilist themed game (Half-life 3 anyone?)
Or am I just not getting it?
