GayGamer.net has a lot to answer for

[rockyoumonkeys]

just to add to this, 9 out of every 10 homosexual persons i know, uses the word gay in the slang way also, as that is how they grew up and they have never once used it to describe themselves or anyone else in that manner,

do you really want to get into the "hey, they use that word, why can't I?" conversation? You know the one I'm talking about.

 

[Dana22]

You're here at the Escapist. Why aren't you somewhere else?

Im waiting for a game site for people with pollen allergy.

 

[Funkysandwich]

So we're not allowed to call things gay anymore?
That sucks, I love calling stuff gay.

That article is gay, some gays need to get over the fact that they're gay and stop taking offense to anyone that says gay, it's just as immature.

Oh I certainly can't say you're "not allowed to". Knock yourself out. But don't whine like a little girl with a skinned knee when people get upset about it.

When he said it it made me chuckle a little, and I 'play for the other team' myself. I just don't see how someone saying something is gay can turn into such a shitstorm. The guy used the wrong word, yea, but some people are acting like he said "gays are going to hell" or something.

Different people will have reactions of different degrees. A lot of people see it as no big deal, and good for them. Other people get more upset about it, and that can be for any number of reasons. I'm not remotely offended by it, but I also accept that it's certainly offensive to others, and I really don't like the "they need to get over pointless crap" mentality that some people have.

Well, it's true. People need to get over pointless crap. If you're going to be offended every time someone says something remotely offensive by accident, then you're probably going to be reduced to a quivering mess everytime you hear another person speak. Either that or you'll get so angry your head explodes.

 

[Dexiro]

They're just being attention whores. Most gay people don't find "gay" offensive, those that do are idiots.

 

[WiccaVamp]

http://gaygamer.net/2010/09/mafia_2_producer_apologizes.html
Denby Grace apologized, so did wootini. Case close, let's all get a life... I've got a wow raid in 15 minutes...

lol too true.Misunderstandings and slips happen all the time, cause we're all human. Does that mean I condone the use? no. but both parties were remorceful and got on with their lives so it all worked out.

 

[latenightapplepie]

It's misleading, certainly. Having only seen the thread title, I was going to make a post along the lines of "Yes they do, they ought to stop drawing lines in the sand. We shouldn't really need to have specific sites for gay gamers or girl gamers or fat gamers or brown-eyed gamers - wouldn't it be easier just to be gamers? We're already a maligned subgroup, we shouldn't be splitting ourselves into ever-smaller communities based on who we like to stick our dicks in".

It'd never happen, though. There are people who want to be able to say "I'm gay, and I play videogames!" or "I'm a girl, and I play videogames!" as a mark of pride, when the correct response should be "So what? Is it going to make any difference to the way you play games?"

I agree. We shouldn't really need these different sites for people. But you know what? In reality, we do. Because there are lot of jerks on the internet. Some who are homophobic, some who are racist, others misogynistic. Some are a nasty combination of the three. Sometimes, people just want to play, exchange ideas with, make friends with and generally interact with those with whom they share something.

Why did you come to The Escapist? Why not IGN? Or Gamespot? Or Kotaku? You may think you came for a significant, valid, defendable reason, such as our community's greater respect for grammar and spelling, or the well-written articles, or the funny video series, or the insightful reviews, but really any of those reasons are insignificant compared to a gay gamer's reason for joining Gaygamer.net.

You know why? Because being gay is a big deal. It really shouldn't be, but it is. Even in the Western world, being gay can get you kicked out of home, harassed, denied the same rights as heterosexuals, fired from your job etc. And the other countries are worse.

Because LGBT persons are so often treated in a negative way by society at large, it makes perfect sense to band together both in order to make friends and social connections with similar people, but also to form a stronger, more unified message that we're here, we're queer and that you should get used to it.

You may just think we cut your hair, or suggest the layout of your new living room, or design your clothes, but we also capture your flags, take part in your WoW raids, and Zerg rush your base whenever we get the chance.

You have this all wrong; we can celebrate diversity whilst still appreciating what we share. At least, that's my view.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

He is unhappy with the use of the word gay to mean "bad". Problem is, just about every single person does it. My brother doesn't have anything against gay people, but he uses the term. I myself have used the term to mean "bad". What can I say, I grew up in Australia, and that's the language that was used on the school grounds. I picked it up as a slang word, just as everyone did.

I have made an effort to not use that word in that sense, but damn it, I can't be bothered filtering and monitoring what I say every single second of every single day. For what it's worth, INTENTIONS matter. If someone doesn't mean to offend, and in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Grace did not mean to offend, then let it go. There's enough REAL hatred out there you know.

I am half Chinese. I don't really look it though (my brother does, however) and when I'm around white people I have heard racist speech, not directed at me, but against other chinese people, and believe me, it sets my teeth on edge. Recently, I heard someone complain about "cheap chinese goods" and knockoffs. Did I get offended? Did I raise a stink over the issue? No, due to the fact that china does produce many cheap goods (for which I am grateful) and unfortunately many knockoffs do come from China. The man wasn't intending to insult Chinese people, but had an issue with economic practices, which is fair enough. So I let it go. Because intent MATTERS. Speech without intent is meaningless, it's just sound.

In the case of Denby Grace, I seriously doubt that a conscious jab at gay people was the intent. Therefore, it was not insult. Insult REQUIRES INTENT. You cannot unintentionally insult someone - that's just being tactless or unsophisticated. People can be offended by unintentional remarks, but that is not the same thing as being insulted directly.

I don't like using the word "gay" as a pejorative, and I have (largely) stopped. But I know many people who do use it. They aren't gay-bashers, they aren't conservative voting, angry bigots who fear those different from them - in fact, they're largely progressive people who back Same Sex Marriage. It's just that in the culture they grew up in, that was how people talked.

To make such a fuss over this, HURTS those who do support gay rights. Instead of focusing on important issues, they focus on small matters and wording. They are literally arguing over semantics and syntax, when gays are being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia, and when gay military personnel have to lead double lives.

Look, gay people, you need straight people to join your cause. By doing this, you are just trying people's patience. Intent matters, context matters, and raising a fuss over a slip of the tongue, or some slang, raising a fuss over ONE SYLLABLE, a sound in the air, not designed to cause offense, is just silly.

For the record, using the N-word isn't the same thing. That isn't slang in most parts of the world, it is a deliberate insult. When people say the N-word, they say so INTENTIONALLY to refer to black people. No one says "man,that's so N-word". No, every time the N-word is used, it is directed SPECIFICALLY at people.

But even then, I make allowances for the elderly, so long as it was a slip up. For example, I used to know a man who referred to Indigenous Australians as "abbos", which is quite offensive to them. I pointed this out to him, calmly, when he did it, and he always apologized. Apart from the use of that word, he was fine - he backed the Government apology to the Aboriginal community, he was in favour of giving them more land-rights, but the dude was 58 years old and that's the language he grew up in. It worms your way into your mind and sits there.

So gay people - please understand that INTENT MATTERS. I know you don't like hearing that word used in a negative light and I understand that. But anger doesn't help. Anger is appropriate if someone is GENUINELY insulting gay people, but if they aren't, it doesn't help, and just causes more problems. Logically, if you hear someone use the word gay in a pejorative manner, then gently, but firmly, correct them. You could say "please don't use that word in that way", or "please don't use that term" or "please pay more attention to your language", you know, things like that. That would be more helpful then misdirected anger, which is not constructive.

well said.

just to add to this, 9 out of every 10 homosexual persons i know, uses the word gay in the slang way also, as that is how they grew up and they have never once used it to describe themselves or anyone else in that manner, and that last 1 to 2 people dont care about the word at all, they dont even use it. now im not saying everyone/every homosexual person does this around the world, but from the general consensus of my area and from other people of the homosexual community, thats how they use it too.

and like the post i quoted said, its all about intent on that, i could make up at trend saying "barkraddish" which could stand for "fucking foreigners", but regardless, its all intent, as no one would care what i am saying, as thats what they look for, not the intent of the word.

Yes, but it still doesn't mean that it should be accepted as anything but 'poor form'.

How many of us has told a racial joke? 100% i'm willing to wager. How many people realize that telling racial jokes everyday is synonymous with being a prick? 100% i'm willing to wager. You could argue that the racial slur or joke has no intention of harm, but at the same token should it be encouraged and accepted?

Of course fucking not. It's not too much to expect people to grow up and realize that the gift of language doesn't automatically translate into a gift to be purposefully offensive without any reason or provocation.

There will always be 'poor form' in language ... things you should just not say and not expect anybody to think less of you. Using 'gay' as a derogative should be one of them. If you really have trouble thinking before you say something (i.e as you claim that you merely use the word as a kneejerk response) then you're a brainless twat or just looking to defend an offensive usage of a term that is needlessly outdated.

I mean seriously, people need to grow the fuck up already.

I expect such language from maybe a 10 year old or younger, but it shouldn't be a part of an adult's colloquial language ... it's unnecessary and downright idiotic. When you hear it being said by uni students and adults it's just cringeworthy.

 

[Squilookle]

Does he actually think gamers are obsessed with homosexual space marines? Or is he using "gay" in the more popular pejorative usage?

Wootini actually acknowledged the use of the word 'Gay' as a pejorative in wide use? How can he possibly be reasonably offended if he knows that the word has taken on that meaning? Sure it's different to the existing definition in use by the Gay community, but they've done exactly the same thing by changing the definition from what 'gay' originally meant anyway!

 

[Woodsey]

Still, I love how you try and take the moral high-ground against me despite you saying they deserve to be treated differently because they're not heterosexual.

I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth, in form of a very caustic accusation. I resent that and, by extension, you. Spare me your sermon, I'll not dance to your tune.

No no, what did you mean then?

Maybe I said it wrong, and instead you just meant that gays should simply expect to be treated differently (not that you think they deserve it) - correct now?

 

[Deathninja19]

While I agree it probably was a slip of the tounge and he didn't mean it in a nasty way I'm not gay and I'm sure the guy who said it wasn't either so we have no right to say what gay people can be offence with. The fact of the matter is he used gay in a derogatory way and some people would obviously find offence with that, would you still be defending him if he used the n word instead of gay?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

just to add to this, 9 out of every 10 homosexual persons i know, uses the word gay in the slang way also, as that is how they grew up and they have never once used it to describe themselves or anyone else in that manner,

do you really want to get into the "hey, they use that word, why can't I?" conversation? You know the one I'm talking about.

i do know what your talking about, and suprisingly i might be the one person on here who has had this conversation amongst all of my black friends. LITERALLY i was at a graduation party a year ago and about oh...60 or so of them,including adults/relatives/etc.. which are from allll over the area, all ok'd it that its no longer a term of hatred or to be only used by them. suprisingly it was an odd bonding experience amongst friends.

now believe me before you flame the shit out of this i know this doesn't apply to everywhere or everyone or nor am i in the majority in any possible way, but regardless every single race or nation has been hated/discriminated against at one point or another, which a ton of em have moved on and dont jump on every single person who says something about them. now im not saying that "gay" people should roll over and take whatever verbal usage in the ear they get, but throwing your arms in the air and pointing "DEMON! THAT IS IGNORANT YOU PRICK!" doesn't help the situation at all, usually it just makes it worse.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

He is unhappy with the use of the word gay to mean "bad". Problem is, just about every single person does it. My brother doesn't have anything against gay people, but he uses the term. I myself have used the term to mean "bad". What can I say, I grew up in Australia, and that's the language that was used on the school grounds. I picked it up as a slang word, just as everyone did.

I have made an effort to not use that word in that sense, but damn it, I can't be bothered filtering and monitoring what I say every single second of every single day. For what it's worth, INTENTIONS matter. If someone doesn't mean to offend, and in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Grace did not mean to offend, then let it go. There's enough REAL hatred out there you know.

I am half Chinese. I don't really look it though (my brother does, however) and when I'm around white people I have heard racist speech, not directed at me, but against other chinese people, and believe me, it sets my teeth on edge. Recently, I heard someone complain about "cheap chinese goods" and knockoffs. Did I get offended? Did I raise a stink over the issue? No, due to the fact that china does produce many cheap goods (for which I am grateful) and unfortunately many knockoffs do come from China. The man wasn't intending to insult Chinese people, but had an issue with economic practices, which is fair enough. So I let it go. Because intent MATTERS. Speech without intent is meaningless, it's just sound.

In the case of Denby Grace, I seriously doubt that a conscious jab at gay people was the intent. Therefore, it was not insult. Insult REQUIRES INTENT. You cannot unintentionally insult someone - that's just being tactless or unsophisticated. People can be offended by unintentional remarks, but that is not the same thing as being insulted directly.

I don't like using the word "gay" as a pejorative, and I have (largely) stopped. But I know many people who do use it. They aren't gay-bashers, they aren't conservative voting, angry bigots who fear those different from them - in fact, they're largely progressive people who back Same Sex Marriage. It's just that in the culture they grew up in, that was how people talked.

To make such a fuss over this, HURTS those who do support gay rights. Instead of focusing on important issues, they focus on small matters and wording. They are literally arguing over semantics and syntax, when gays are being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia, and when gay military personnel have to lead double lives.

Look, gay people, you need straight people to join your cause. By doing this, you are just trying people's patience. Intent matters, context matters, and raising a fuss over a slip of the tongue, or some slang, raising a fuss over ONE SYLLABLE, a sound in the air, not designed to cause offense, is just silly.

For the record, using the N-word isn't the same thing. That isn't slang in most parts of the world, it is a deliberate insult. When people say the N-word, they say so INTENTIONALLY to refer to black people. No one says "man,that's so N-word". No, every time the N-word is used, it is directed SPECIFICALLY at people.

But even then, I make allowances for the elderly, so long as it was a slip up. For example, I used to know a man who referred to Indigenous Australians as "abbos", which is quite offensive to them. I pointed this out to him, calmly, when he did it, and he always apologized. Apart from the use of that word, he was fine - he backed the Government apology to the Aboriginal community, he was in favour of giving them more land-rights, but the dude was 58 years old and that's the language he grew up in. It worms your way into your mind and sits there.

So gay people - please understand that INTENT MATTERS. I know you don't like hearing that word used in a negative light and I understand that. But anger doesn't help. Anger is appropriate if someone is GENUINELY insulting gay people, but if they aren't, it doesn't help, and just causes more problems. Logically, if you hear someone use the word gay in a pejorative manner, then gently, but firmly, correct them. You could say "please don't use that word in that way", or "please don't use that term" or "please pay more attention to your language", you know, things like that. That would be more helpful then misdirected anger, which is not constructive.

well said.

just to add to this, 9 out of every 10 homosexual persons i know, uses the word gay in the slang way also, as that is how they grew up and they have never once used it to describe themselves or anyone else in that manner, and that last 1 to 2 people dont care about the word at all, they dont even use it. now im not saying everyone/every homosexual person does this around the world, but from the general consensus of my area and from other people of the homosexual community, thats how they use it too.

and like the post i quoted said, its all about intent on that, i could make up at trend saying "barkraddish" which could stand for "fucking foreigners", but regardless, its all intent, as no one would care what i am saying, as thats what they look for, not the intent of the word.

Yes, but it still doesn't mean that it should be accepted as anything but 'poor form'.

How many of us has told a racial joke? 100% i'm willing to wager. How many people realize that telling racial jokes everyday is synonymous with being a prick? 100% i'm willing to wager. You could argue that the racial slur or joke has no intention of harm, but at the same token should it be encouraged and accepted?

Of course fucking not. It's not too much to expect people to grow up and realize that the gift of language doesn't automatically translate into a gift to be purposefully offensive without any reason or provocation.

There will always be 'poor form' in language ... things you should just not say and not expect anybody to think less of you. Using 'gay' as a derogative should be one of them. If you really have trouble thinking before you say something (i.e as you claim that you merely use the word as a kneejerk response) then you're a brainless twat or just looking to defend an offensive usage of a term that is needlessly outdated.

I mean seriously, people need to grow the fuck up already.

I expect such language from maybe a 10 year old or younger, but it shouldn't be a part of an adult's colloquial language ... it's unnecessary and downright idiotic. When you hear it being said by uni students and adults it's just cringeworthy.

while i can agree to that, i dont think it should be used outright publicly or in anything else other than poor form, i think its made its distinct mark on that it doesn't mean JUST "homosexual" people anymore, hell it meant happy, once upon a time.

 

[icame]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc3/greymelken/lolpix-surprise-no-one-cares.jpg


Who really gives a shit. Read something through before you make claims like that. I think yahtzee said it best when he said that a world where someone makes fun of another and everyone laughs is a perfect world.

 

[PurplePlatypus]

They're just being attention whores. Most gay people don't find "gay" offensive, those that do are idiots.

They may be a little over sensitive about it but it?s hardly idiotic.
It?s quite easy to come to the conclusion that using gay as a negative way implies the person finds there to be some sort of negativity with homosexuality, gay primarily meaning homosexual right now. Of course most people don?t mean to imply this, but the implication is there and the word is in an awkward place as it?s going through a transition between meanings.

Of course this transition is tinged with a bitter sense that it might be linked to some people?s homophobia. So yes, especially depending on a person?s experience, it might leave a bitter taste in their mouth to have it used in such a way to mean stupid or bad.

 

[-Samurai-]

It's unprofessional to say you're bored of hypermasculine characters who are so very obviously gay? Gay is not an insult. It's a word. Yes, you can use it to mean 'defective', but, now hold onto your seat, this might shock you, it can also mean 'homosexual', which was very clearly the intent in the post.
I personally don't see anything wrong with saying you're bored of seeing gay space marines. You get the two main characters. You see their power armour. And suddenly it's a bromance. You just see it coming. If games suddenly started featuring only female characters, would we dare say 'I'm bored of seeing all these women'...something I never thought I'd write, but still...? Or do we risk feminist attack because we're being offensive to women?

Think about it. What other word could the guy have used? He could have said homosexual, but that takes too long. He could have said 'flaming' but that would probably have caused even more. Hell, 'fabulous' would have been amusing, too, but the thought of Marcus Fenix with fashion sense...kinda scares me.

Thank you so much for being one of the few people here that's using their brain.

As for gay as derogatory, I use it, and I'm not going to stop. I also use "fagget" and "homo". I have a few gay(and lesbian) friends and I call them gay and homo and fagget. Then they say things like "You're a fagget. But not like the "me" kind of fagget. The bad kind.".

One of my gay friends noob-tubed me once and I said "Wow, you're so gay!". He replied "I thought you knew! I mean, it's kinda obvious!".

I don't know where I'm going with this. Probably something to do with all gays not being offended by the use of the word gay as an insult.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

while i can agree to that, i dont think it should be used outright publicly or in anything else other than poor form, i think its made its distinct mark on that it doesn't mean JUST "homosexual" people anymore, hell it meant happy, once upon a time.

Yes, but I would differentiate that the motive of using the term has changed. A 'gay person' can mean either a happy, contented individual, or a homosexual. But neither are an insult or poor quality that should be frowned upon.

But if people use it to refer to something intangible, or as an insult ... what the hell are they referencing? It's a homophobic insult born of homophobia. I don't care if the usage has changed, it was born to be purposefully vilifying.

It's poor form ...

As an adult you shouldn't expect to use poor form so publicly without being judged as a moron at the very least or as a homophobe at your worst.

I mean there is so much more colourful terminology that is both socially accepted, and targets nobody, that we could use ... but 'gay' gets to be one of the top ten I hear?

How the hell did that happen? It's pure immaturity, and to use it (as an adult at the very least) should be met with incredulity and derision. It's a derogative term (or atleast when used in the fashion it is) that should be frowned upon. There is no reason why it's usage as an insult shouldn't be met by condemnation. If anything it should be maintained and considered as no different than a racial or religious slur ...

For example the infamous "Don't be a Jew" when asking someone if you could borrow a tenner to buy lunch. It was a popular saying when I was a kid, but as you grow up you quickly realize that it has no place in adult society.

Would you say that "Don't be a Jew" or just the insinuation that "Jew" meant a greedy person who won't share would be 'acceptable'? Even if the person who addressed the other person when looking to borrow money knew that he wasn't a Jew? No of course not ... it's vilification of Jews ... why exactly is the derogative use of 'gay' not seen in the same light?

 

[rockyoumonkeys]

So everyone's going to use their own alleged gay friends as a crutch to allow them to continue not to give a **** about everyone else?

Wonderful.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

He is unhappy with the use of the word gay to mean "bad". Problem is, just about every single person does it. My brother doesn't have anything against gay people, but he uses the term. I myself have used the term to mean "bad". What can I say, I grew up in Australia, and that's the language that was used on the school grounds. I picked it up as a slang word, just as everyone did.

I have made an effort to not use that word in that sense, but damn it, I can't be bothered filtering and monitoring what I say every single second of every single day. For what it's worth, INTENTIONS matter. If someone doesn't mean to offend, and in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Grace did not mean to offend, then let it go. There's enough REAL hatred out there you know.

I am half Chinese. I don't really look it though (my brother does, however) and when I'm around white people I have heard racist speech, not directed at me, but against other chinese people, and believe me, it sets my teeth on edge. Recently, I heard someone complain about "cheap chinese goods" and knockoffs. Did I get offended? Did I raise a stink over the issue? No, due to the fact that china does produce many cheap goods (for which I am grateful) and unfortunately many knockoffs do come from China. The man wasn't intending to insult Chinese people, but had an issue with economic practices, which is fair enough. So I let it go. Because intent MATTERS. Speech without intent is meaningless, it's just sound.

In the case of Denby Grace, I seriously doubt that a conscious jab at gay people was the intent. Therefore, it was not insult. Insult REQUIRES INTENT. You cannot unintentionally insult someone - that's just being tactless or unsophisticated. People can be offended by unintentional remarks, but that is not the same thing as being insulted directly.

I don't like using the word "gay" as a pejorative, and I have (largely) stopped. But I know many people who do use it. They aren't gay-bashers, they aren't conservative voting, angry bigots who fear those different from them - in fact, they're largely progressive people who back Same Sex Marriage. It's just that in the culture they grew up in, that was how people talked.

To make such a fuss over this, HURTS those who do support gay rights. Instead of focusing on important issues, they focus on small matters and wording. They are literally arguing over semantics and syntax, when gays are being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia, and when gay military personnel have to lead double lives.

Look, gay people, you need straight people to join your cause. By doing this, you are just trying people's patience. Intent matters, context matters, and raising a fuss over a slip of the tongue, or some slang, raising a fuss over ONE SYLLABLE, a sound in the air, not designed to cause offense, is just silly.

For the record, using the N-word isn't the same thing. That isn't slang in most parts of the world, it is a deliberate insult. When people say the N-word, they say so INTENTIONALLY to refer to black people. No one says "man,that's so N-word". No, every time the N-word is used, it is directed SPECIFICALLY at people.

But even then, I make allowances for the elderly, so long as it was a slip up. For example, I used to know a man who referred to Indigenous Australians as "abbos", which is quite offensive to them. I pointed this out to him, calmly, when he did it, and he always apologized. Apart from the use of that word, he was fine - he backed the Government apology to the Aboriginal community, he was in favour of giving them more land-rights, but the dude was 58 years old and that's the language he grew up in. It worms your way into your mind and sits there.

So gay people - please understand that INTENT MATTERS. I know you don't like hearing that word used in a negative light and I understand that. But anger doesn't help. Anger is appropriate if someone is GENUINELY insulting gay people, but if they aren't, it doesn't help, and just causes more problems. Logically, if you hear someone use the word gay in a pejorative manner, then gently, but firmly, correct them. You could say "please don't use that word in that way", or "please don't use that term" or "please pay more attention to your language", you know, things like that. That would be more helpful then misdirected anger, which is not constructive.

Amen.

George Carlin, may he rest in peace, said the following regarding language:

There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions. And woooords.

 

[SageRuffin]

I'll only say this much: many people forget that the most destructive weapon known to mankind is the spoken or written word.

 

[-Samurai-]

So everyone's going to use their own alleged gay friends as a crutch to allow them to continue not to give a **** about everyone else?

Wonderful.

Or it could be an example to show that not every homosexual person is offended by the use of the word "gay" as an insult, and some even use it themselves.

I see all these people saying "People that use gay in a derogatory should grow up.". Maybe they should grow up and ignore the things that bother them. Especially something as trivial as a word that upsets them; Something they can't stop people from using.