Gender equality

[Torrasque]

The other day in my history class, we were talking about the philosophers of the 17th-18th centuries, and someone brought up that it was international women's day.

This got the prof talking about how things should be perfectly equal; that guys and gals should be equally able to do any job, any task, etc.
Which makes sense. The only difference between guys and gals are our naughty bits, and a few anatomical differences here and there. Yes I know, there are lots of differences, but I'm trying to make the point that a human is a human, and the differences between a guy and a girl are negligible when it comes to most things like jobs, thinking, etc.

Someone brought up the point that females may not want to do the jobs that males typically do, or females may not be wanted to do the jobs that males typically do.

Technically speaking, we're all a little bit sexist, just in varying degrees.
Think of a scientist. Did you think of a guy in a lab coat? SEXIST!
Think of a construction worker. Did you think of a burly guy in a hard hat? SEXIST!

Sarcasm aside, I personally think I'd rather have a lady babysit my kids, have a guy move my furniture, or have a girl handle my subway.

So this is the part where I ask what you think.
Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?
Why do you think there is job inequality?
On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

 

[FolkLikePanda]

The way I see it, there are some jobs blokes are more suited for than women and vice versa.

 

[hexFrank202]

I don't mind gender roles, no one in my family does. We also don't mind gender roles being broken. We're a tolerant, open-minded family with the unusual, rarely-seen bonus-feature of actually being tolerant and open-minded.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?

Yeah. Because those people are probably best suited for that role.

Why do you think there is job inequality?

Because people think the above answer is set in stone.

Also old values which haven't died out yet.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

Probably a 3... I'll hold back when calling a girl fat because they'll probably hate me more for it.

 

[Batfred]

I'm about a 4 I reckon. I'm not sexist exactly, but like most people I have stereotypes about what should be done by a man and vice-versa.

Also, I have found that people don't want true equality. Women still want to be pampered by men and men still want to protect women. It's in our nature. We say we want equality, but only when it suits everyone. To summarise, I don't think that either sex would be truly content with 100% true equality.

 

[moretimethansense]

Think of a scientist. Did you think of a guy in a lab coat?
Think of a construction worker. Did you think of a burly guy in a hard hat?

No and no.
Though I find women in lab coatss to be sexy, am I still sexist?

The main reason we see gender X in Y roles so often is due to social expectations and age old sexism we've yet to shake:
Men do the hard work, women raise children.
Men hunt, women forrage.
Men build things, women type.
Men think, women are TOLD what to think.

We're getting there, in some areas we've made it, in others we've still got some work to do, in yet others we forgot about the men.
I'm not sure gendar bias will ever truely be erradicated but we're getting closer.

EDIT: a three or a four I guess, I need examples!

 

[Torrasque]

I don't mind gender roles, no one in my family does. We also don't mind gender roles being broken. We're a tolerant, open-minded family with the unusual, rarely-seen bonus-feature of actually being tolerant and open-minded.

I love seeing just as many female professors at my school as males, and its always awesome when you go to some shop (for example, a moving company) and the "secretary" you talk to, is actually the owner.

What we were talking about in my class, was "why is it weird to see a female construction worker, and a male botanist?"
I think the answer is:

Why do you think there is job inequality?
Because people think the above answer is set in stone.
Also old values which haven't died out yet.

I do joke about fems making me sammiches, and "back in the kitchen!", but I think fems are more capable at pretty much everything. I'd LOVE to have more fems in government than guys.

 

[SilentCom]

There is no true equality, although we should try to give everyone the opportunity they deserve. I want to make a comment on genders doing certain jobs. If a woman were to get a mammograph by a man, she would likely feel violated not to mention the man could be sued for sexual harrassment or molestation. The same could be said of men getting treatment from women in other professions. This is not sexist but reasonable due to comfort zones.

 

[Jonluw]

Because of biological differences. There are differences between the sexes, period. Also in the way our brains work. However, the individual differences have potential to overrule the differences of sexes so whatever.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I do joke about fems making me sammiches, and "back in the kitchen!", but I think fems are more capable at pretty much everything. I'd LOVE to have more fems in government than guys.

I firmly believe women would make good frontline soldiers, there is no convincing reason they should be prohibited... The UK Armed Forces recently reviewed the situation and declined.

Also... Women do make some pretty bitchin' sammiches...

 

[Carlston]

I'm fairly equal on all fronts.

But soon as I here a non-qualified person for a job cry they aren't given a fair shake because of what's between their legs. My cynicism alarm goes off and I start asking for the key information.

Take the military. They flat out have different physical requirements for women on the PRT which is basically your 6 month check to see if your in shape.

Women tend to have around 1/3rd to 1/4th the push up and sit up requirement. Ok physical difference in muscle mass...but then have even long times to run a mile and a half, so same time killing their fast more agile claim.

And when in bootcamp women on long runs with their 60-80 pound packs, its not uncommon for all of them to finish with a man now hauling two full packs on his back...

So it's not equal. But same time does this stop a woman from being a paper pusher or say Tank gunner? Paper pusher she's fine. Tank gunner, well if you can't lift the 60 pound shell and load the main gun if the loader/autoloader is taken out...no. Yet that example can cover a man as well. Nothing to do with equality but your ability.

It's a hairy situation, but at times I notice many female have no problem to demand to be equal then throw right back up they are female and can't do the same things...

So how equal am I? Round a 9.

How tolerant am I of people who just fall back on the sexist BS to make excuses for their inability to be equal? A 1.

 

[Captain Pirate]

Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?
Because some jobs women are better at, and some jobs men. The genders are naturally different. Sure, both genders could theoretically do any job, but often times one is better suited than the other.

Why do you think there is job inequality?
See above. Some jobs are better suited to specific genders.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?
1-2. I'm not really sexist at all. I mean, when there are some sexist jokes going on (From both genders) I'll join in, but that's just banter, and doesn't reflect my views on women at all. Plus, it's always in an environment where both genders are cool with it and there is a tiny chance anyone'll get offended.

 

[Swaki]

1a. (assuming you are being more philosophical and asking why i see it that way in my brain tv)

Well yeah because its facts, a very popular Danish newspaper quite often show statistics of several jobs and how many men/women work in that field.

1b. (assuming you are more literal)

Well pressure from society is a big part of it, i knew a guy who wanted to be a make-up artist, but because he is pretty "manly" (aka not hollywoods idea of a gay man) and straight he was bullied until he quit and then there's just certain jobs men and women are more suited for, for instance men are generally stronger and taller so there are certain jobs where they have a natural advantage, its not much different than the fact that if you have a bad back you probably shouldn't work with children (my moms best friend learned that the hard way).

2.

Well personally I'm more interested in general inequality but if we only focus on the job market it really depends on your boss, research (in Denmark, don't know if it universal) shows that the gender of your boss has a huge influence, male bosses will more often give bonuses and access to the firms car etc to other men, but will give women far more sick days, allow them to work from home more often and be more understandable when they arrive late, where as female bosses will hire other women more often and promote them over male counterparts, where as they will give men much more freedom when it comes to work schedules and how they do certain projects, but why we do this is hard to say, i doubt that anyone does it knowingly.

My experience is that on the larger work places its definitely not as big of a problem, i have worked in a few offices because of a rather stupid law we have where you can hire unemployed people for 2 months and the government will pay their salary and reward you, and from my experience if the work place is big enough people stop thinking about the sex of their co-workers, and in some cases they completely stop think about them as people.

3.

It's hard to say, i have noticed that i more often help women with getting their strollers off the bus or down the stairs, and i also assume that most men can catch and throw, sometimes leading to unnecessary broken bottles.

I would say 2, as most the time i just ignore other people, but my sister would probably rate me 11. because i prefer male doctors, to be fair i have testicular cancer and i do think men have a better knowledge of testicles than women.

What about you OP?.

 

[Evil Moo]

Because of biological differences. There are differences between the sexes, period. Also in the way our brains work. However, the individual differences have potential to overrule the differences of sexes so whatever.

Basically this. On average a woman is less likely to be physically suited to a job involving difficult manual labour and simply hiring them in the name of anti-discrimination is both stupid and counter productive in delivering equal treatment of different groups of people.

By all means hire a woman who does have the capability for the job, as you would anyone else, but as soon as you start positively discriminating to meet arbitrary minority quotas, you are almost as bad as one who blindly denies access to a job based solely on gender, skin colour, or whatever else.

Discrimination isn't always a bad thing. It is practically impossible to act without basing your actions on some kind of preconception based on a grouping characteristic of whatever you might be interacting with and it is almost certainly unhelpful in the majority of cases. The only problem comes when you refuse to adjust your preconceptions despite new knowledge which contradicts you.

 

[Realitycrash]

So this is the part where I ask what you think.
Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?
Why do you think there is job inequality?
On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

I think there's a reason because of our cultural history, and the fact that most jobs have been traditional for men, but this is slowly changing.
As for sexist..I'm most likely a 3, but then again I have a rather poor opinion of people in general.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?

Yes, because its more common in my culture to see it as such. Its more common for me to think of a male construction worker, because its more common to see one. If it was the other way around, it would be the opposite, that's not sexist.

Why do you think there is job inequality?

History mostly.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

About a 2. I'm Pro-feminism, consider myself a male-feminist. But still, some cultural things I can't drop for the life of me.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

There is no true equality, although we should try to give everyone the opportunity they deserve.

This.

Or rather, I think we should give everyone an equal opportunity to prove themselves for a particular kind of job.

Nature makes total gender equality impossible. Sure, the inherent biological differences between men and women might be largely irrelevant when it comes to your average desk jockey job, could one really say the same thing about being a firefighter? A soldier? A policeman?

Granted there are exceptional women who can certainly live up to the harsh physical standards required when it comes to carrying fully grown people to safety out of a burning building, covering vast distances in harsh inhospitable terrain carrying a heavy load on your back and a rifle in your hands or dropping a violent criminal to the floor and cuffing him, and as long as these women can live up to these standards as well as a vastly larger majority of men can, then of course they should be able to have these jobs.

But the fact remains that by reviewing the statistics, they tell us that many women aren't cut out for firefighting, soldiering or patrol work in the policeforce, and this group of inherently incompetent women will MOST LIKELY be significantly larger in comparison to the amount of men who are equally incompetent for the same reasons.

But this fundamental reality seems to escape the authorities in some countries. Heck in some countries, governed by the ignorant moron called "political correctness", firefighting institutions, policeforces and armies actually LOWER the standards of their physical tests in order to insure that more women will pass the grade. Which might be nice for the hopeful female applicants, but isn't it downright insulting to the taxpayers (who do provde these institutions with their funding after all), that the chiefs of these instiutions actually CHOOSE to accept "lower quality" in their employees just so they don't have to run the risk of being called "sexist"?

Women shouldn't be prohibited from taking the tests that men have to take, but they damn sure should be forced to compete on the exact same levels that men have to. Nothing useful has ever come from affirmative action (in any instance what so ever)...

 

[lee1287]

Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?

Because some are better suited for the wimmin.

Why do you think there is job inequality?

Bah

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

10.. Though mainly i get annoyed at the fact that only Woman can run in the Race for lfe charity event thing. If there was a mans race, you bet there would be women complaining. ALSO, Theres a car insurance company, just for women, SEXIST SEXIST SEXIST.

 

[Torrasque]

... the differences between a guy and a girl are negligible when it comes to most things like jobs, thinking, etc.

You're over compensating for feeling like you're skirting sexism. Your sex DEFINITELY affects how you think, what it doesn't affect is the validity of your method of thinking.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

Probably about a 3, I honestly think that most of the women I meet on a daily basis don't really want equality, they seem to want coddling.

Actually no, your sex has absolutely no effect on how you think.
However, how you are expected to think based on society's standards, is a factor.
I have met guys who think like girls, and girls who think like guys. I don't know any transexuals, so it must be their atmosphere that has generated such an odd way of thinking.

In short, if you are a guy, because you are expected to think like a guy, you are likely to think like a guy.
If you are a girl, and your society says "girls belong in the kitchen", it is likely that you will also think that way. Depending on how you are raised and how you interact with others who accept/deny the general opinion, is what shapes your thought.

TL;DR
Your biology does not effect how you think.

- snip -

I liked your points, and they are really similar to what I think as well.
Yes, most guys are bigger and stronger, but that doesn't stop a girl from getting really fit so she can do the things that a guy can do.
Because of a girl's metabolism and how they gain muscle, it may be harder for her to do so, but if she wants to be able to lift that tank shell as well (if not better) than a guy, then she needs to work at it. Thats no different from a guy, its just easier for a guy (usually).

I can't help but be reminded of GI Jane.

- snip -

Really interesting research findings, somewhat surprising, but it definitely makes sense.

Personally, I know what you mean, I'll help a woman with her stroller, and I'd probably help a guy with a stroller as well, but I'd be more likely to help/be nice to a girl.
At my work, my manager will hire anyone that is able and willing to do the work. We're trying to get a girl since we only have 1 (small liquor store) and be less of a sausage-fest, but someone that can and will work, will likely get the job.

Yeah, I usually assume guys are physically capable, and girls physically incapable, unless they prove otherwise.
I also assume guys like beer and paintballing, while girls would like coolers and going to the club. I've been proven otherwise many times, but I'm ok with being proven wrong.

What are my answers to my three questions? I'll answer in another post. Since this one is getting too long... lol