Gender in Gaming: Part 1 of 3.

[cleverlymadeup]

The article also touches upon the fact that 'undesired womanly processes' are never included in videogames, making men feel they can connect with them more. I also agree with this sentiment, too - albeit not from a personal viewpoint. It is why videogame romances are as shallow and petty (and easy to come by) as clicking through a few dialogue sequences. A while back The Escapist itself featured an article about sexism in gaming. I e-mailed the guy who wrote it and we had a short discussion about why romance is a dead concept to designers - men do not want 'romance' when it is traditional; long and drawn out - because often the real reason they play games is to escape from such situations in real life - an alien concept. Thus, designers cater to this criteria and make everything short and bitter-sweet.

ok thing is the undesired male processes are ignored too, it's not just women who's things are ignored, so it's a bit of a moot point

as for romance and i know i'm going to get crap for this, just a sec let up put on my flame suit and go behind this bullet proof glass

ok better

the romance is gone because of a lot of misplaced feminism, women do like romance and to have things given to them like flowers and such but a lot don't, they think it's beneath them and you as a male are scum for trying to do something like that. however you are right that guys aren't great on romance, but really it's a dying out because of that, it's somehow offensive to open a door for a lady or pull out her chair

i try to be a nice guy and open doors and such, i've had it a few times where a woman gets all offended by that and barks "i can do that on my own", so i do the only fair thing and go "ok fine then do it" i hip check her out of the way and close the door behind her

funny part is i've had women laugh at my actions cause the other lady was being a ***** about it, cause i was being a nice person and doing something i didn't have to do

That is not chauvinism. Chauvinism is the belief that women are incapable of doing something (Barring the contraction of prostate cancer).

there are a few things women can't do as well, this is due to a physical strength thing, this is why there's a lack of female firefighters, most can't pass the hose test

sadly tho some woman in canada sued because she couldn't pass the physical test to be a firefighter and said they were being sexist. even sadder she won and probly endangered the lives of many people

it's not that they aren't equal it's just in some instances there's a health and safety concern, not only for her but for everyone involved. personally when asked firefighters would love to have a woman on the force as long as she can pass the tests

EDIT: fixed the missing bracket

 

[Blayze]

I've read reports of female military aspirants having to go through easier physical training (Such as, say, the men have to climb a wall that's higher than the one the women have to). If that's true, that's just *stupid*.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to entrust my life to somebody who only got a job because the standards were lowered.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

The fitness training you speak of is there only to put each individual at their physical peak, it is not a lowering of standards or the creation of double standards. In other words, being able to climb a certain height regardless of difference is not required - being able to climb a certain amount dependent on your self is.

A woman would not be expected to be less accurate at firing, less competent at commands or unable to do her job. The Army is not stupid.

As for the Canadian woman mentioned, if I'm remembering right I think it was something to do with not being able to run as fast as men in a new fitness test made by the government and implemented after 2 years of the woman successfully working within the fire department. The recommendations had been based upon less than a dozen elite males with high aerobic capabilities, and thus was discriminatory. There is no evidence of women endangering lives.

 

[Xaositect]

If the choice of gender is given, I will always play as a male. Likewise, given the choice of race, unless its a fantasy game with fantasy races, I will always be white. Mainly this is because, using Mass Effect as an example, I like to try and make my in game avatar look as much like me as possible. So I played as a very white guy with a shaved head (I have long hair now, but I tried to look I used to when I had a shaved head) in Mass Effect.

I however cant stand all this talk about how "I play a female so I have a pretty ass to look at". Mainly because that sounds like such a fucking boring way to play a game in my opinion. To each their own and all that I guess, but Id rather play the game and interact with the story and NPCs playing a virtual extension of myself, not playing as a female ass. I mean, after all, if your playing a female character because you want to look at the ass, to me that means you are playing the game *AS* a female ass. If the pretty ass is all the players attention is on character-wise, then they cant be playing as much else really.

Of course, I dont mind playing games where the gender or race of the character is set. I will just be more of an observer when Im playing the game, and feel less in control. Still, that is the same way I feel about ANY set protagonist, even if they are white and male too. So I guess its not so much about the identity of the character, but whether or not I have been given a choice or not.

I seem to have a somewhat similar mindset to Melaisis in some regards. But like I said, its more about identifying with me (or my creation/extension to be more precise) not my gender (or race).

 

[MagnetoHydroDynamics]

I sort of wonder; what MMO will be bold enough to have female characters that actually wear *gasp* skin-covering armor!

Ah, who am I kidding, I'm a perv like all the rest, in a way...

I agree with you.
(Anyway it's implausible as hell to have a warrior not wearing armor to protect legs, arms and abdominal region)

 

[cleverlymadeup]

As for the Canadian woman mentioned, if I'm remembering right I think it was something to do with not being able to run as fast as men in a new fitness test made by the government and implemented after 2 years of the woman successfully working within the fire department. The recommendations had been based upon less than a dozen elite males with high aerobic capabilities, and thus was discriminatory. There is no evidence of women endangering lives.

actually if i fully remember the story, i think it had to do with her carrying a dead weight up and down a set of stairs in under a certain time (this is the hose test), she couldn't do it and was either let go or not hired because of this

in this instance you DO need to be physically able to do that, if not you have the potential of being the target of lawsuits

there's a cop who's obese and got fired because of it, he couldn't physically do the job because of his weight, he sued saying he was discriminated, so the dept posted video of him failing his physical requirements

as for the topic on hand, i'm one of those "i play a woman to stare at her butt when i play", the thing is i don't feel some sort of odd attachment to my character or any longing or caring for it. i'm rather sadistic with most of my chars, in WoW i have a habit of seeing a ledge and jumping off it for fun to see if i will live or not. i don't feel any large attachment to them or feel they are doing something epic, i just do what i have to.

the other interesting thing i've found tho is women are less threatened by you if you play a female char, partly because they too probly assume you're female either that or it's because i don't hit on them constantly and treat them like human beings

 

[cleverlymadeup]

I sort of wonder; what MMO will be bold enough to have female characters that actually wear *gasp* skin-covering armor!

Ah, who am I kidding, I'm a perv like all the rest, in a way...

I agree with you.
(Anyway it's implausible as hell to have a warrior not wearing armor to protect legs, arms and abdominal region)

i'll say none because in the fantasy genre females don't have full clothed armour AND WoW for the most part does this already

if you look at fantasy a lot of males don't either, it's typically only full suited kinghts/warriors/paladins that do, most other classes are half naked besides a rogue/theif

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I think aesthetics is a good choice of word for why I play female characters, but certainly not in any sexual sort of way. Why do I play female characters? One word... costume.

It's not true of every game, but in most fighting games and RPGs, guys wear extremely boring, bland, and colorless outfits. Female clothing is usually a lot more colorful, creative, and interesting in these games (most likely to accentuate cleavage, legs, and other suggestive forms of eroticism). And frankly, even if I'm the only one playing, I want to play a character that stands out.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I dunno about the whole 'romance-chick flick' thing, I mean, while many 'chick' movies are completely beyond me, Little Women was the ultimate chick-flick and was so well made that I enjoyed it immensely. Anyone calling me gay will be shortly recieving a visit by the though police.


cleverlymadeup- the brand of female logic that you describe is not 'feminism'. Feminism was women wanting to be treat as equals by men. Fair enough- nowhere did it specify the dislike of romance, flirtation etc. What you describe is an older trend going well back to the Victorian/edwardian period of sexual repression, only this time instead of sex being 'dirty' or 'evil' it is 'manipulative' or 'sexist'.

Myself, I'm tired of sex selling. What we need is more pornography, so people stop noticing these stupid means of selling products.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

cleverlymadeup- the brand of female logic that you describe is not 'feminism'. Feminism was women wanting to be treat as equals by men. Fair enough- nowhere did it specify the dislike of romance, flirtation etc. What you describe is an older trend going well back to the Victorian/edwardian period of sexual repression, only this time instead of sex being 'dirty' or 'evil' it is 'manipulative' or 'sexist'.

Myself, I'm tired of sex selling. What we need is more pornography, so people stop noticing these stupid means of selling products.

well i don't think it's a victorian thing, it's a misguided version of feminism, cause frankly i will hold the door open for anyone, the ones that mostly object are women tho cause "they can do it for themselves" and while yeah i agree they can, you're a ***** cause someone is doing something nice for you and you're being rude to them

as i said in another thread, feminism is more about giving a woman choice to do things she wants to, such as if she wants to be a doctor, ceo or house mom she can because it's her choice, not because it's forced on her. sadly it's deviated well from that, with a lot of double standards, like most "feminists" will say it's wrong to hit back and defend yourself against a woman who is attacking you but if roles were reversed it's ok for the woman to kill the guy

also the more porn won't stop that, sex will always sell, tho getting rid of the taboo of it will make things a bit better, less teenage std's and teen pregnancies for one

 

[shadow skill]

I'm a guy and I would enjoy romance in a game I do however think it is best to make romance a part of the plot progression rather than a game mechanic.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Haven't read the whole thread but read the OP - but I want to give my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

I just wish that instead of catering to the demographic of 13 year olds by making Lara Croft's breast quadruple in size - that games which let you play/choose a female character gave you an advantage (and disadvantage) over the other gender.

Example: If I pick a female character in oblivion, as long as I'm a "Nord" class, I'm gonna be just as strong as my male counterpart, and just as slow too. I'd like to see gender have an actual impact and be less than just a skin for your character, if I pick a "Nord" woman, it should make sense that I'll be strong, but less strong than the males, but at the same time be a lot faster and more agile. Women are built differently than Men,(zomg!)- it's obvious and should be implemented into games, other than "Muscles or Big breasts, which do you want?"

I like games such as "VTM: Bloodlines" because you can't just pick a gender and hope to have sex with everyone and everything, you still can be a lesbian but only if you are good at "seduction" and have a good "appearance" - if not, the character may just say "sorry I'm not gay" or "you're ugly" - you don't just start off as a DDD sex object. I don't think major stats change depending on gender you pick (such as "dexterity", etc.) - but it's a step in the right direction.

btw Wilson - can't you submit things to the escapist? I see the link in the bottom right of all articles and videos.

 

[Sylocat]

And people accuse me of generalizations.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

I just wish that instead of catering to the demographic of 13 year olds by making Lara Croft's breast quadruple in size - that games which let you play/choose a female character gave you an advantage (and disadvantage) over the other gender.

when the original tomb raider came out, most ppl who were buying/playing the playstation were male and over 18, everyone just blames "teenage boys" but it was men buying the game and system

Example: If I pick a female character in oblivion, as long as I'm a "Nord" class, I'm gonna be just as strong as my male counterpart, and just as slow too. I'd like to see gender have an actual impact and be less than just a skin for your character, if I pick a "Nord" woman, it should make sense that I'll be strong, but less strong than the males, but at the same time be a lot faster and more agile. Women are built differently than Men,(zomg!)- it's obvious and should be implemented into games, other than "Muscles or Big breasts, which do you want?"

yeah that's when i will pick female over male, if they are the same but depending on what i want, like sometimes women are quicker and more dexterous than males. but if everything is equal, i go with women for purely the fact of the TnA

 

[Akatsuki Yukino]

This article caught my eye while I was waiting for a ZP video to load. Honestly, I am impressed at all that was said.

"There are three categories of people in the world: man, woman, and a man with a woman's heart."

Falling into the third category can become a reason for playing the female gender in a video game. It's almost like a justification for being the not-so-man way you are. I speak of this from experience. I don't act like a normal guy would at all, so me playing a guy is like being me in real life which doesn't fit me at all. To break out of that, playing a female character makes it more believable for my personality to fit into it a lot more than if I was doing a guy. In this case, the choice is about acceptance.

Also, the choice can be one of style or grace. Men are often portrayed as muscular and powerful and Mr. Macho but are often bulky, stupid, and slow. Women, while sometimes not appearing strong, are lithe, swift, and intelligent. While most guys prefer strength, I know plenty who believe in speed over power, strategy over strength, including myself. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need lots of power so as to overwhelm. I just need speed and know where it hurts the most. In that mindset, it would be like picking an assassin over a warrior: kill swiftly with a hit to the vital point instead of raw overpowering... power.

These are less major, but still vital, points to make when considering why some men go for female characters.

Anyways, I like the purpose behind your article and eagerly await the next two parts.