"get back in the kitchen"

[Rolling Thunder]

"Contemptible little troll. Yes, you have venom. Yes, you have your bile, your false logic, your unreasoning contempt. But you are naught, nothing, a vast, wallowing emptiness upon this place, and I bid thee - die!"

With these words, Rolling Thunder stepped back, and, reversing his blade, struck a blow upon hoopyfrood, and another, and another. The troll cried out in pain as the power of Unrepentant Fury clove into it's vile, stinking flesh, the pestillence and reek of intellectual decay assailing his senses. But still the rotten thing stood, an insulting prescence upon the pristine white-blue fields of The Escapist.

"Damn thee, begone!" snarled Thunder, even as he backstepped, reversing his heavy blade, and slammed the pommel into the troll's skull. With a wrenching, bilious mewl, the troll staggered, and Thunder resumed his task.

 

[Nickolai77]

2. I know. I wear skirts quite often. Admittedly, it's called a kilt where I come from, and to call it a skirt would probably be unwise, but honestly, where's the difference. Besides, it actually accentuates ones masculinity.

Scottish? Awesome, I've always thought the Scot's have got the to the stage where they are so manly they actually wear skirts- Just like the Roman Legions (Who where also damn masculine). Maybe, weirdly enough, wearing a skirt is the most manly thing a guy can do XD

Now, back in serious mode-

Thanks to what happened in the past, women are now more or less on an equal footing to men- They can become an engineer or a prime minister (or maybe not in this country any more lol) and work full time professionally.

One thing i think to note is that what is happening today could be seen to contradict what women want ideally from a relationship. Women in general prefer guys to be taller than them, and a couple of years older than them. Women are generally attracted to the "Alpha-Male" types- males who are dominant and assertive- which is why it's hard for introverted males to get a girlfriend unless there good looking. This to me, suggests that women, at a primitive psychological level, prefer to be subordinate to the males. In general.

Be this due to cultural reasons (say, the influence of the Christian Church on western civilisation) or evolutionary reasons- It could explain why to some women, who embark on traditionally masculine careers or fulfill male roles- they could encounter awkwardness from within them selves or other male colleagues.
Never the less, many women do overcome these inherent problems in society or within their own nature- in the same way that say some males would overcome a innate disposition to violence by excersing self control or taking up sport to control these negative natural instincts.

When Nietzsche was writing about becoming an Ubermenchen- this was nothing to do with white supremacy, as the Nazi's would later corrupt his works- but what he meant was the process of breaking free from the more negative aspects of humanity that is within our nature and becoming something better- unhindered by undesirable natural instincts. This is what women today can do, and could not a couple hundred years ago.

 

[DanDeFool]

My eyebrows shot upwards at the title of this thread. I hate that kind of attitude because I am a feminist, and because I think it's a rather idiotic thing to say in the first place.

I think the whole "Get back in the kitchen" thing came about as more of a response to so-called fem-Nazis, who use past social norms, abuses, and idiotic Bible stories to unfairly debase modern men, rather than at feminists in general. Sure, maybe there are some backwards jerkwads who intend it to apply to all women, but I just don't see most modern men getting all that upset by moderate feminism. I, myself believe that women (and indeed all people) should have every opportunity open to them as long as they are willing to pursue it, and should be able to structure their lives in any way they want within the confines of the law, but I still thought the "Rule of Thumb" scene at the beginning of Boondock Saints was absolutely hilarious.

 

[DanDeFool]

One thing i think to note is that what is happening today could be seen to contradict what women want ideally from a relationship. Women in general prefer guys to be taller than them, and a couple of years older than them. Women are generally attracted to the "Alpha-Male" types- males who are dominant and assertive- which is why it's hard for introverted males to get a girlfriend unless there good looking. This to me, suggests that women, at a primitive psychological level, prefer to be subordinate to the males. In general.

I've heard of (not read myself, at least not yet) several psychology-based theories which state exactly that, with one small caveat. Women tend to be more likely to find these types of men sexually attractive. Women will, however, get into relationships with less-dominant men with the objective of having a stable provider for their offspring that will also be easy to CONTROL. This is, ostensibly, because a man who is dominant in a sexually attractive way has much more access to other women and will be much more difficult to keep around. As a related note, it has been demonstrated that women who are involved in extra-marital affairs will unconsciously time their liaisons with their affair partner to coincide with the periods in which they are more likely to conceive, and will have sex with their (presumably less-attractive) spouse during times of decreased fertility; a strategy that may be aimed at keeping a less-dominant man as a stable provider while still acquiring the genes of a much sexier but less-stable man for her offspring.

Note that this is not necessarily meant to reflect badly upon women in a moralistic way. As I understand it, this type of behavior is considered akin to men gawking at any and all good-looking T's and A's that happen to cross their paths. It's the product of millions of years of evolution and is programmed into us on a deep, unconscious level. And if you want my take on it, if your wife is sleeping around because she can't get what she needs from your dumb ass then you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Emeli]

The only thing that really pisses me off is guys who make the joke. You know "get back in the kitchen" or "go make me a sandwich." It doesn't really offend me, I'm pretty easy going, but I've never laughed, or smirked, or even particularly appreciated the irony. Not funny guys.

 

[cobra_ky]

why are people talking about generalities, anyway? the entire point is that not everyone fits into societal gender roles and there really shouldn't be much of a problem with that.

 

[Knight Templar]

Cool, looks like Rolling Thunder has some kind of special permission to troll and flame, but when I point out that he is trolling I get probated for "flaming."

You told him to stop "shitting on the thread", I'm thinking it is that which pushed you over the edge.

 

[Labyrinth]

What is that supposed to prove? What I've been saying all along is that there is a discrepancy between what women want and what they say they want.

And I'm saying that to state that women want one thing is silly, because different women want a whole heap of different things in men. Or in women. The thing is that the call for 'sensitive' men comes from one part of women while others aren't up for that. We haven't lied. Some women are attracted to men who don't care to hide their emotions.

3. A woman who punches people is quite an attractive thing, in her own way. *Tips hat* Congratulations for being willing to support your views and morals with violence.

Amen to that!
I've always had a thing for girls who can take me in a bar fight.

Which raises an interesting question. Why do you feel the need to reassure me that even though I'm doing something violent, it's still attractive?

 

[quiet_samurai]

Women these days have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. The can become whatever ehey want to, be it a housewife or a surgeons there is nothing there holding them back. Which is why I don't understand why certain feminist still keep bitching and complaining about equal rights and opportunity. The feminist movement is no longer applicable in most modern societies, women have overcome the boundires that held them down in the past, and some of them can't accept it.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

3. A woman who punches people is quite an attractive thing, in her own way. *Tips hat* Congratulations for being willing to support your views and morals with violence.

Amen to that!
I've always had a thing for girls who can take me in a bar fight.

Which raises an interesting question. Why do you feel the need to reassure me that even though I'm doing something violent, it's still attractive?

I don't. I am making two seperate points:

1. That I find women who can fight attractive. Not you, per se, just women in general, who can fight. Personally, I find most violence attractive, though I am a little crazy in that regard, but meh. This is not a reassurance, merely an idle observation, which humanity in general has a tendacy to make, in particular those of us who are prone to idle speculation. Pray do not be so touchy, none of us are patting you on the head and telling you 'Awww, that's sweet'. In fact, the matter was merely myself and annoyinglizardvoice sharing an observation on females we found attractive, and do not pretend women do not do the same with men, for that is a blatant falsehood.

2. That I admire anyone willing to support their rights with violence, be they male, female, transgendered or otherwise. Violence is the final solution to all matters.

 

[cobra_ky]

Women these days have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. The can become whatever ehey want to, be it a housewife or a surgeons there is nothing there holding them back. Which is why I don't understand why certain feminist still keep bitching and complaining about equal rights and opportunity. The feminist movement is no longer applicable in most modern societies, women have overcome the boundires that held them down in the past, and some of them can't accept it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male-female_income_disparity_in_the_USA

women still aren't treated the same as men. gender discrimination may no longer be enforced by law (although in many ways it still is) but it still very much exists.

 

[quiet_samurai]

Women these days have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. The can become whatever ehey want to, be it a housewife or a surgeons there is nothing there holding them back. Which is why I don't understand why certain feminist still keep bitching and complaining about equal rights and opportunity. The feminist movement is no longer applicable in most modern societies, women have overcome the boundires that held them down in the past, and some of them can't accept it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male-female_income_disparity_in_the_USA

women still aren't treated the same as men. gender discrimination may no longer be enforced by law (although in many ways it still is) but it still very much exists.

Where is gender discrimination still enforced by law in the USA? And the reason more men have higher incomes then women is because on average more men are employed throughout the country then women are, that's because a big portion of the female population are stay at home moms. So of course men are going to be the majority on higher incomes because more of them are working. And yes there is still sexism, there always will be, but that is more dependant on the individual or small groups of individuals rather than society as a whole. But then again some sexist sereotypes are absolutely true, for both men and women.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

I've always had a thing for girls who can take me in a bar fight.

You should donate your testicles to medical science because you obviously don't need them anymore.

I'm just secure enough in what I am that I don't need to pretend to be uber-manly or unstoppably hard

 

[cobra_ky]

Women these days have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. The can become whatever ehey want to, be it a housewife or a surgeons there is nothing there holding them back. Which is why I don't understand why certain feminist still keep bitching and complaining about equal rights and opportunity. The feminist movement is no longer applicable in most modern societies, women have overcome the boundires that held them down in the past, and some of them can't accept it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male-female_income_disparity_in_the_USA

women still aren't treated the same as men. gender discrimination may no longer be enforced by law (although in many ways it still is) but it still very much exists.

Where is gender discrimination still enforced by law in the USA?

the most obvious example is Selective Service: only men are included in the draft, and women are excluded from combat roles. beyond that, there's arguments you could make about birth control and abortion law, but i'll leave that argument to an actual woman.

And the reason more men have higher incomes then women is because on average more men are employed throughout the country then women are, that's because a big portion of the female population are stay at home moms. So of course men are going to be the majority on higher incomes because more of them are working.

False. Men have a higher median income than women. the number of men vs. women in the work force is irrelevant. there are also many cases where women are paid less than equally experienced men for the same position.

And yes there is still sexism, there always will be, but that is more dependant on the individual or small groups of individuals rather than society as a whole. But then again some sexist sereotypes are absolutely true, for both men and women.

i don't believe any stereotype is absolutely true, but which stereotypes are you referring to?

 

[quiet_samurai]

Women these days have just as many rights and opportunities as men do. The can become whatever ehey want to, be it a housewife or a surgeons there is nothing there holding them back. Which is why I don't understand why certain feminist still keep bitching and complaining about equal rights and opportunity. The feminist movement is no longer applicable in most modern societies, women have overcome the boundires that held them down in the past, and some of them can't accept it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male-female_income_disparity_in_the_USA

women still aren't treated the same as men. gender discrimination may no longer be enforced by law (although in many ways it still is) but it still very much exists.

Where is gender discrimination still enforced by law in the USA?

the most obvious example is Selective Service: only men are included in the draft, and women are excluded from combat roles. beyond that, there's arguments you could make about birth control and abortion law, but i'll leave that argument to an actual woman.

And the reason more men have higher incomes then women is because on average more men are employed throughout the country then women are, that's because a big portion of the female population are stay at home moms. So of course men are going to be the majority on higher incomes because more of them are working.

False. Men have a higher median income than women. the number of men vs. women in the work force is irrelevant. there are also many cases where women are paid less than equally experienced men for the same position.

And yes there is still sexism, there always will be, but that is more dependant on the individual or small groups of individuals rather than society as a whole. But then again some sexist sereotypes are absolutely true, for both men and women.

i don't believe any stereotype is absolutely true, but which stereotypes are you referring to?

I completely agree that women don't have a place in combat, not because they aren't as capable of it as men can be, especially in modern times. I agree with it because men don't like to see women get blown apart or sustain grevious wounds on the batle field. This is genetic and goes all the way back to living in caves and beyond, It is hard wired into the brains of most males to protect females at all costs. And no matter how advanced we become and how much knowledge accumulates it will always be so. So it's not the womens lack of being able to contribute in combat, but the mens lack of being able to handle them as casualties as viewing them as regular soldiers.

And as far as income goes, the number of people in the workforce is absolutely relevant. If you have more men in the workforce then women, the chances of them having higher paying jobs is greater, it's odds and mathematics. My company is contracted out to one of the biggest insurance companies in the country (and the world), like one of the ones that have numerous commercials on television, and almost all the top brass including the CEO are all women. Most of the supervisors here are women, hell I report to a woman. Now I'm not saying those studies pertaining to sexist treatment in the workforce is completely untrue, I just think they are biased. I have worked the corporate world for years and have never seen a women not get a job because she was female or even hear about it happening, so I'm coming form a place where I have first hand knowledge and experience.

And as far as stereotypes go, I merely just meant the usual things that men and women say about one another. Mostly pertaining to relationships and the dating scene. I also shouldn't have said "absolutely", maybe "mostly" would have applied better. And thank you for actually answering my questions, most people just rant and rave and go off without trying to make you understand or at least see their point.

 

[cobra_ky]

I completely agree that women don't have a place in combat, not because they aren't as capable of it as men can be, especially in modern times. I agree with it because men don't like to see women get blown apart or sustain grevious wounds on the batle field. This is genetic and goes all the way back to living in caves and beyond, It is hard wired into the brains of most males to protect females at all costs. And no matter how advanced we become and how much knowledge accumulates it will always be so. So it's not the womens lack of being able to contribute in combat, but the mens lack of being able to handle them as casualties as viewing them as regular soldiers.

well, i word argue that most men don't like seeing other men get blown apart either, and i've personally never felt that a woman's death is any worse than a man's, so i don't think it's hard-wired in my brain.

but aside from that, even if you're right, you're claiming that men, as a whole, treat women differently. if that's not sexism, i don't know what is.

And as far as income goes, the number of people in the workforce is absolutely relevant. If you have more men in the workforce then women, the chances of them having higher paying jobs is greater, it's odds and mathematics. My company is contracted out to one of the biggest insurance companies in the country (and the world), like one of the ones that have numerous commercials on television, and almost all the top brass including the CEO are all women. Most of the supervisors here are women, hell I report to a woman. Now I'm not saying those studies pertaining to sexist treatment in the workforce is completely untrue, I just think they are biased. I have worked the corporate world for years and have never seen a women not get a job because she was female or even hear about it happening, so I'm coming form a place where I have first hand knowledge and experience.

no, it's not relevant when determining median salary. increased sample size does not increase the median as long as the sampling is truly random.

it's nice that so many women have gotten ahead at your company, but that isn't necessarily true for every company in every industry. also, i was talking about pay inequality, not denying promotions.

And as far as stereotypes go, I merely just meant the usual things that men and women say about one another. Mostly pertaining to relationships and the dating scene. I also shouldn't have said "absolutely", maybe "mostly" would have applied better. And thank you for actually answering my questions, most people just rant and rave and go off without trying to make you understand or at least see their point.

oh sure. a lot of stereotypes are actually well-founded. it's only a problem when society forces people into those stereotypes.

 

[cobra_ky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male-female_income_disparity_in_the_USA

You should read that more carefully.

ok. any particular reason why?

women still aren't treated the same as men.

And vice versa, because men aren't women and women aren't men.

i would think that would go without saying.

Then there are the complications caused by men and women becoming romantically involved.

the U.S. military allows homosexuals to (secretly) serve in combat units and romantic involvement isn't a problem there. or why not have gender segregated units?