"get back in the kitchen"

[BonsaiK]

Labyrinth, I think it's safe to say at this point that hoopyfrood is trolling.

Oh, and (link removed) for some context.

 

[Labyrinth]

Labyrinth, I think it's safe to say at this point that hoopyfrood is trolling.

Ahh, but the argument is such absolute fun! I haven't debated to this extent for ages.

Also if you don't mind please remove that link. ED isn't welcome.

 

[BonsaiK]

Labyrinth, I think it's safe to say at this point that hoopyfrood is trolling.

Oh, and (link removed) for some context.

Ahh, but the argument is such absolute fun! I haven't debated to this extent for ages.

Also if you don't mind please remove that link. ED isn't welcome.

Ok... as long as you're having fun, it's all good... and I was just using the link to explain what "cool story bro" really means. Because it's basically a total insult and as a mod you might want to be aware of that. Anyway, removed it.

 

[Labyrinth]

I, not being a female, am unable to make further, non-jovial comments for fear of persecution.

You're welcome to say it. Just be warned that it will be subject to criticism. Flaming? No, but examination. That's the same whether you're male, female or other.

 

[eels05]

Off topic..

I work in a kitchen for a living and would just like to say the negative connotations about 'the kitchen' being feminine couldn't be further from the truth.

I've seen many supposedly self proclaimed hardarses broken and humbled by the excessive stress,fatigue and social life killing hours kitchen life demands.

 

[Mikkaddo]

I think I see the problem here, if you spend all your time on 4chan, you forget what that thing we call "reality" is . . . the people on 4chan are saying things like "get back in the kitchen" and N(we know the rest on that word) and all the more offensive words and phrases because they think it's hilarious . . .

Personally, I'm not against a woman working, or being a housewife, or a man doing the male equivalent there of. The whole "get back in the kitchen" is mysoginy, the "men" that are saying this, are as much a minority as the feminists who think men are evil because they have a penis, you're not being hunted for being a feminist, but don't think that ALL men find women who want a career emasculating. Not all of us do.

 

[Labyrinth]

If the man says "I don't want to use a condom," then the woman just says "then we are not doing this." The final decision - and responsibility - is hers.

And if the man says "I want to use a condom" the responsibility is his, no? And if they both say "Let's use a condom" the responsibility is shared.

Are you saying you can't control your behavior?

No I'm saying that controlling my behaviour won't prevent it happening. That's why it's called "Rape", not "consensual sex".

There is no flaw in my argument.

Funny, I've been pointing out a few.

If you haven't heard those stories a hundred times then you are seriously out of the loop.

I've heard them a few times, but I'm still waiting for you to pull up substantial evidence.

You need to learn what a generalization is.

You need to learn that they're too generalised for this kind of debate.

They act that way because they've been assured that that's exactly what women want.

They act in a way which makes them friends with women rather than potential partners, then blame it on the women for treating them as friends.

 

[Trivun]

My eyebrows shot upwards at the title of this thread. I hate that kind of attitude because I am a feminist, and because I think it's a rather idiotic thing to say in the first place. You don't want to send me to the kitchen. The kitchen contains lots of shiny, pointy and very sharp knives in a range of shapes and sizes.

The archetypal family structure of a working father, home mother still applies in the broad sense. Women may also work, but there are exceptionally few home-fathers who do the housework, cook, shop, care for children etc. The expectation is still there that a woman, even one who has a career, will be the primary carer. I'm not saying that all men should be the people in the home as that a) wouldn't work and b) is as sexist as stating that the women should do it. It's the underlying theme which ticks me off.

I kind of agree with this point here. Something quite noticable in my family is that my mom does most of the house stuff and my dad doesn't, in fact I'm typing this at the kitchen table now while my mom is cooking Sunday dinner and my dad is sitting reading the paper. However, occasionally, if something needs doing, my dad will get up and do it. I'm at university most of the time, living in another city, so I do housework and cooking and cleaning and so on, and I'll continue to do so even if I end up meeting a girl (or possibly guy, unlikely as that may be) and moving in with them (or having them move in with me). Whether I live with my partner or not, I'll still do my fair share of the housework and so on. Obviously that means all of it while I live on my own, but the point stands. What would be most fair is if both men and women do their fair amount of work, and don't leave it to anyone else. Maybe then we wouldn't have the sexist argument cropping up so often. How would most guys like it if their girlfriend/wife suddenly stopped doing any worjk around the house and sat on their arses all day watching TV? Maybe some guys, and indeed girls, should think of that before they complain.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Upon the dark plains of the Escapist, Rolling Thunder stood, Bidenhander in hand, and gazed upon the troll. Reason, here, would serve him no more - all that was left was the ancient, visceral tradition, engraved upon the very surface of an Escapist veteran. The art of the trollslayer.

And so, with a mighty cry, he did strike the troll hoopyfrood with his Bidenhander, yelling his warcry to the heavens.

"Have at thee, foul troll! And that too, you pedant, you fool! Did you think that your prescence would be tolerated any longer? Hah! I mock you and your kind, and, eterne, condemn you to damnation! Your logic is flawed, your arguments as pitiable and inelegant as your monstrous form! Simply because you are incapable of finding a woman attracted to you does not make your argument valid!"


(Labyrinth - I must say that things must be very different in Australia, because here, most intelligent men would rather they maintained a long-term relationship than simply screwed and left. Yes, we do get our hopes up, but the majority of us can understand the difference between 'hopes' and 'expects'.)

 

[Nimbus]

Don't worry about what is or isn't "normal". Just do what you want. If that means cooking, cleaning and being a housewife, great. If it means running a corporation or climbing Mt. Everest, great too. The whole point of the feminist movement was to give women the CHOICE to be who they wanted to be, not to say "all women must behave like X". Just chill out, relax and do what pleases you in life, and be happy that a previous generation of women fought for your ability to make those choices.

This. A thousand times, this.

Nothing else need be said.

 

[AngloDoom]

I really hate that sort of thing. Not because I am a feminist but because it makes it very hard for me to justify the fact that I think a man should take care of a woman. I think the traditional family structure thing is really cool. A woman who takes care of the children and the homestead

but it has been twisted and contorted more by men than women it seems. Some girls want to work and have professional careers and thats cool, maybe ill do that too, and I guess a lot of guys feel that emasculates them somehow that they arent the sole provider anymore.

sometimes I feel whatever you choose you will be looked down on by some group. Women who are all about female empowerment will think you are holding back progress if you choose to raise your children and men will repeat their tired lines about sandwich making if you want to be a career woman.

that and if a guy wants to do something for me, I will let them. I could prolly lift that heavy object, but if a guy gets something out of the act of helping a girl I think thats great. It doesnt make me weak or dependant but there are people who will make it out to be like that.

i feel like its harder than ever to just be 'normal' maybe i dont want to be super progressive about some things, is that so bad?

Personally, as a man I'd prefer the woman to work. However, if we got to a point where I was able to provide for the family comfortably on my own, I'd do just that. If I won the lottery, I wouldn't work at all.

Simple thing is, men are looked down if they don't work. Women aren't so much; perhaps they are starting to a lot more now due to the amount of women perusing long-term careers and a family, but every time I see a household where the man stays home with the children and the woman works, everyone always bullies the guy into leaving the kids all day and getting a job. I've never seen that occur to a woman.

Women now have more of an opportunity to pursue a long-term career. It seems some people who tend to see themselves as leaders of a revolution believe it should be forced on all women as a statement.

Still, OP, if you want to stay at home with children when you have some, do just that. I personally believe children benefit from having someone at home with them and if you have a partner who can look after you both comfortably then do just that. However, if you've both got good jobs and you'd both like to stay home with children, what would you do then? Just a curiosity thing.

 

[Epitome]

There was also that female MP who recently said there should be measures to get more women into the higher political positions to 'keep an eye on the men'.
I think Ann Widdecombe luckily stepped forward to point out the flaws to this approach.

Oh god i hate that line of thought... You know who i blame for all the twisting, women. Yeah that right you *points finger at screen*. I like to think of myself as a chivilrous gentleman, i hold doors, pull out chairs and always offer my seat on public transport etc. My gf claims to be a femenist all teh time but shes not, and neither are alot of feminists. They are sexists, they want this double standard built around them. I want to be treated as an "equal" [small] but i still want all the perks of being a woman, and i want not to have to do the same amount, and i want my pregnacies taken into account etc [/small]

Most feminists dont want to be treated equally , they want to be treated better. Like that politican that wanted a certain percentage of seats held for women. Thats NOT how a democracy works!! The person with the most votes deserves that seat, male or female it shoulnt matter. Women make up about 50% of the population so they have the same amount of votes as men, if they feel under-represented tehn they should vote for female candidates. but voting along genderlines isnt smart what if teh female candidate is an anti-sematic, hateful person, shud she still have the seat because sehs female?

Btw that pregnacy thing was just i can imagine what i would be told by my boss i gonna take 3 months of paid leave and i need you to hold my job for me and i may or may not be back.

 

[Pilot Bush]

oh, women, always asking for rights. That's just adorable

 

[Labyrinth]

No.

Yes.

What the hell? We are not talking about rape. Don't change the subject.

Aren't we? I do not have complete control over what happens to my body in all situations because of things like rape. Don't go off on how I hate all men because they're all rapists. No, not the case. I'm talking about the 1-in-5 women reporting rape during their lives. It happens to men as well, but in one out of nine cases.

You really are living in some kind of bubble.

I'd say the same of your understanding of feminism.

Because they've been told that that's what women want.

And it's somehow our fault, as a collective, that not adhering to what they're told doesn't send a strong enough message that they're doing it wrong?

 

[bluepilot]

As of now I live alone and cook, clean, do laundry by myself on top of my job. Living alone it isn`t so difficult to juggle work and keeping my life together. If I lived with another person (say married) I would not mind to continue working, cooking and cleaning, but I would get really annoyed if my partner was just lazy. If I had a partner who always expected my to pick up after him, left his laundry all over the floor, leaves dirty dishes everywhere this would really annoy me.

I have systems in place, and as long as the systems are obeyed I do not mind if he does not help with the cooking and cleaning so much. I like to take care of my partner...but in exchange he must not mess with the system or act like a slob. I would like my partner to do the `manly things` around the house i.e. things I cannot do. Such as fixing computers, balancing checkbooks, sorting out legal documents, dealing with car related stuff and contracts.

When just the two of us, I can have this lifestyle, but when they are children involved I would like us both to make sacricifes. I would not mind having a house husband but I would hate to be a housewife. If we have kids, I expect my partner to share more of the responsibilities. My current job is very demanding so I would find it hard to take time off when the kids get sick e.t.c. Plus kids need both a mother and father so I would hope that he would take then time to care for them as I would have to.

 

[Labyrinth]

As of now I live alone and cook, clean, do laundry by myself on top of my job. Living alone it isn`t so difficult to juggle work and keeping my life together. If I lived with another person (say married) I would not mind to continue working, cooking and cleaning, but I would get really annoyed if my partner was just lazy. If I had a partner who always expected my to pick up after him, left his laundry all over the floor, leaves dirty dishes everywhere this would really annoy me.

I have systems in place, and as long as the systems are obeyed I do not mind if he does not help with the cooking and cleaning so much. I like to take care of my partner...but in exchange he must not mess with the system or act like a slob. I would like my partner to do the `manly things` around the house i.e. things I cannot do. Such as fixing computers, balancing checkbooks, sorting out legal documents, dealing with car related stuff and contracts.

When just the two of us, I can have this lifestyle, but when they are children involved I would like us both to make sacricifes. I would not mind having a house husband but I would hate to be a housewife. If we have kids, I expect my partner to share more of the responsibilities. My current job is very demanding so I would find it hard to take time off when the kids get sick e.t.c. Plus kids need both a mother and father so I would hope that he would take then time to care for them as I would have to.

I'm with you on the practical skills thing. I can cook and clean, do house chores, but I can also mix concrete, measure and cut timber, build retaining walls, use and care for various tools and other such things because they're useful things to know. They'll help me whether I live alone or otherwise and I think that everyone regardless of gender would benefit from knowing them.