Girl Gamers - the final discussion

[Ladette]

"Blah Blah Blah."
/Makes same comments as in the last 40 threads on this subject.


I'm sick of talking about gamers who happen to be female. We need more threads on asexual gamers, like my friend Ken.

Spoiler

edit: In before ban for posting nudity.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Yes, there is variation in skill levels but Im sure if you look at the best players in most competative games then they will be male.

Again, what does that prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Yes, there is variation in skill levels but Im sure if you look at the best players in most competative games then they will be male.

Again, what does that prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

So social stigma is keeps women from winning any Marvel vs Capcom or Starcraft tournaments? It's pretty funny when you say it like that.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Yes, there is variation in skill levels but Im sure if you look at the best players in most competative games then they will be male.

Again, what does that prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

So social stigma is keeps women from winning any Marvel vs Capcom or Starcraft tournaments? It's pretty funny when you say it like that.

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

EDIT: Like I'm guessing if you're the type of person that gets demoralized and loses or quits practicing if some people start ostracizing you or whatever then you probably weren't really pro material.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

 

[Evidencebased]

Yes, there is variation in skill levels but Im sure if you look at the best players in most competative games then they will be male.

Again, what does that prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

Also, another factor is that men generally have more free time than women and more free time in uninterrupted chunks, which helps in getting good at gaming. Women still do more housework than men, more childcare than men, and are more often expected to drop whatever they're doing and help out someone else. There's a reason that a lot of women play "casual" games you can pick up and put down easily, rather than spending all evening in a "man cave" playing something more involved.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

 

[Evidencebased]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

EDIT: Like I'm guessing if you're the type of person that gets demoralized and loses or quits practicing if some people start ostracizing you or whatever then you probably weren't really pro material.

Actually, yes, in a way. Have you heard of stereotype threat? There have been studies showing that, for example, female students do better on math tests when they are told they will be graded anonymously vs. when they are told they will be graded as girls and their scores compared to male math scores. Just the existence of the stereotype (ex. girls are bad at math) was enough to lower their math scores. A similar thing happened when white male students were told that they would have their math scores compared to Asian students who are stereotypically the best at math.

So having your friends suddenly look down on you might not be enough, but if all of society was in some agreement that you weren't going to succeed ('cause everyone knows people like you suck at this!) then yeah, it might actually impact your abilities.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Good answer. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

The above poster makes a very good point I left out. And what do you mean? My point was outside factors led to fewer girls playing competitively leading to fewer girls at the top of leaderboards. When did I ever factor in skill? Other than to say it is pretty much equal.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

The above poster makes a very good point I left out. And what do you mean? My point was outside factors led to fewer girls playing competitively leading to fewer girls at the top of leaderboards. When did I ever factor in skill? Other than to say it is pretty much equal.

Huh?

You said social stigma was an issue that kept women from winning that wasn't related to the amount of women playing games.

Again, what does [men winning all the tournaments] prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

See.

Your point was that having a stigma against you makes you somehow worse at playing the game.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

The above poster makes a very good point I left out. And what do you mean? My point was outside factors led to fewer girls playing competitively leading to fewer girls at the top of leaderboards. When did I ever factor in skill? Other than to say it is pretty much equal.

Huh?

You said social stigma was an issue that kept women from winning that wasn't related to the amount of women playing games.

Again, what does [men winning all the tournaments] prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

See.

Your point was that having a stigma against you makes you somehow worse at playing the game.

My point was that that smaller number was trimmed down even more when you consider those factors. I did not make a statement about skill. Stop trying to twist my argument.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

The above poster makes a very good point I left out. And what do you mean? My point was outside factors led to fewer girls playing competitively leading to fewer girls at the top of leaderboards. When did I ever factor in skill? Other than to say it is pretty much equal.

Huh?

You said social stigma was an issue that kept women from winning that wasn't related to the amount of women playing games.

Again, what does [men winning all the tournaments] prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

See.

Your point was that having a stigma against you makes you somehow worse at playing the game.

My point was that that smaller number was trimmed down even more when you consider those factors. I did not make a statement about skill. Stop trying to twist my argument.

How did I twist your argument? I never even mentioned skill. We're talking about the ability to win tournaments, not winning is being a worse player than a winning player. You said that women not winning was accounted for by social stigma. A stigma caused them to not win. Not winning = being a worse player.

You never even once said that social stigma caused less players to play the game. And when I said social stigma was the cause of losing you agreed that that was the reason.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Why is that possible factor so hard to grasp? Seriously, why do you think men are inherently better at games?

So if my friends started looking down on me for playing Ikaruga I would suddenly be worse at the game?

You wouldn't show up for a competition somewhere. And if you were really worried about flak then you wouldn't play the game. Why are we going around in circles? My point was pretty clear.

But if do keep competing, how will I be worse?

The above poster makes a very good point I left out. And what do you mean? My point was outside factors led to fewer girls playing competitively leading to fewer girls at the top of leaderboards. When did I ever factor in skill? Other than to say it is pretty much equal.

Huh?

You said social stigma was an issue that kept women from winning that wasn't related to the amount of women playing games.

Again, what does [men winning all the tournaments] prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

See.

Your point was that having a stigma against you makes you somehow worse at playing the game.

My point was that that smaller number was trimmed down even more when you consider those factors. I did not make a statement about skill. Stop trying to twist my argument.

How did I twist your argument. I never even mentioned skill. We're talking about the ability to win tournaments, not winning is being a worse player than a winning player. You said that women not winning was accounted for by social stigma. A stigma caused them to not win. Not winning = being a worse player.

You never even once said that social stigma caused less players to play the game. And when I said social stigma was the cause of losing you agreed that that was the reason.

So...confused.....I'm going to agree to disagree.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Oh look, another girl gamer thread, how original.

Ya know, for someone that's tired of that you are not helping by making another thread of this nature. What do you want exactly?

water is wet.
girls game.
the sky is blue.
the end.
no one should care about a gamer simply because of their gender. (the majority of folks here seem to be on the trolley)
so, on behalf of my fellow gamer girls everywhere.. let's all move on and stop making threads like this.

Agreed.

 

[daltonlaffs]

My own two cents on the matter: I know several "gamer girls", and the stereotype is mainly just because of how the male gamers online tend to act in response to a girl. Conversation that I had the pleasure of watching unfold on Xbox Live during a game of Halo (paraphrased because my memory is ass):

Her: Watch it with those grenades, they've hit me and your other teammates way too many times.

Someguy[1]: HOLY SHIT GUYS, A GIRL ON XBOX LIVE!

Someguy[2]: TITS OR GTFO, *****

[Other Someguy's laugh obnoxiously, all sounding to be at least in their twenties]

She proceeded to switch her microphone off, and I was told later that she removed the headset as well. The Someguys went on for another five minutes about her, with increasingly obnoxious stereotypes and insults as she ignored them. I'm not exaggerating. They weren't even trolling, they were just being assholes. She says that she gets this all the time when she has the gall to say something to an idiotic teammate, and I believe her.

In reality, there are a lot of girls that play, including masculine FPS games like Halo or Gears of War. But that sort of shit rightfully makes a lot of them keep their mics muted. If we drop the girl gamer stereotype and start being decent human beings when one speaks up, maybe we'll see them more often.

By the way, those two cents were before tax. PAY UP

 

[bjj hero]

Yes, there is variation in skill levels but Im sure if you look at the best players in most competative games then they will be male.

Again, what does that prove? There are more male gamers than female. Combine that with social factors like the stigma around gaming, the perception that it is a "guy" thing, and the type of game involved and that can easily be explained.

Yes, there are more male gamers than female. That does not mean all the best players should be male. If you read my original post I made no statement about men being innately better at gaming than women. I said that in my experience the men are better and I quote:

"I guess it's a practice thing"

There will be social factors that affect why men are far more likely to game than women and spend more time playing. This will mean that males spend more time "practicing" and getting better, which will make them better. Gaming is a skill that, like any other, that needs to be practiced and developed if you want to improve.

For example, I am now 30 and have a wife and young child, a professional job, train martial arts, teach a class and try to find time to play my bass. Sadly time for bands and gigging has all but gone. I am not as good as I was in my early 20s when I spent far more time playing and was a "better" gamer. I've beaten Contra, gouls n ghosts, bionic commando, Shinobi, thunderforce 4, R Type... All in the times when gaming was crushingly difficult before saved games, healthbars, and other features that nanny gamers arrived. Could I do this now? Probably not, I don't have the time to dedicate to gaming that I once had.

Likewise, if women don't find the time or motivation to game regularly due to "social stigma" or any other reason they will be worse gamers than those who live on them and get lots and lots of practice.