"Good" Game = "I Like this Game"?

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wookiee777

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I got into an argument with my sister over whether a game can be objectively good. I told her that no game is truly "good" or "bad" in the objective sense but what people mean when they say that is "I like this game" or "I do not like this game". She asked about when people say things like "I could recognize that the game was good, but I didn't really like it". I told her that when that is stated it just means that said person has aspects of the game they respect or like, but the game as a whole doesn't satisfy them.

But she stuck to her belief that Good Game=/=Subjective and that I Like It=Subjective only. I figured that these two statements were synonyms basically. What do you think about this, Escapist? Is a game good in the objective sense? Can you dislike a game that is "good"?
 

krazykidd

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Yea you can dislike a game that is good . You can realise why games are enjoyable to other people but it doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy it . That being said , nothing can be objectively good , " good" being subjective. Those are two different things you are talking about . But Most people will say "good" or "bad" game weather they enjoyed it or not .

Wow my post isn't clear at all .
 

ThePuzzldPirate

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I always consider them two separate scales. How good a game is comes down to how much it offers to gaming as a whole, as in what it provides for other games to improve on. However it's completely normal to not like good games, it could be from the gameplay or aesthetics.

I would call L.A Noire and Deus Ex: Revolution good games but didn't like either.
Mirror's Edge and Alpha Protocol were bad games but love them to bits.
 

wookiee777

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krazykidd said:
Yea you can dislike a game that is good . You can realise why games are enjoyable to other people but it doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy it . That being said , nothing can be objectively good , " good" being subjective. Those are two different things you are talking about . But Most people will say "good" or "bad" game weather they enjoyed it or not .

Wow my post isn't clear at all .
ThePuzzldPirate said:
I always consider them two separate scales. How good a game is comes down to how much it offers to gaming as a whole, as in what it provides for other games to improve on. However it's completely normal to not like good games, it could be from the gameplay or aesthetics.

I would call L.A Noire and Deus Ex: Revolution good games but didn't like either.
Mirror's Edge and Alpha Protocol were bad games but love them to bits.
It seems we're in need of a definition of good game then, but that definition is kind of what this thread is about. If we can define "good" we can decide if it is subjective or not.

Also, to Krazykidd, you have a Legend of Legaia avatar! I thought I was the only one on the escapist who played that game. I remember watching the Unskippable Let's Play of Legaia 2 and wondering if they were ever going to bring up the original.
 

Erttheking

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I can't really think of a game that I didn't like that I thought was good. Seems like an oxymoron.
 

TehCookie

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It's kind of a square is rectangle but a rectangle isn't a square. Any game I like is good, but I don't like all good games. It also varies depending on what qualities make a good game. If you think well done controls make a good game, it's more objective and you can dislike good games for being in a genre you dislike or something. I acknowledge Starcraft II is a good game, but it doesn't change the fact I hate RTSes so I dislike it's gameplay no matter how polished it is. Then I have games which I find good because they're entertaining. Even if there's a few flukes in the gameplay or something as long as it amuses me it's good.
 

jebara

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What makes a game good? When you are enjoying it.
If it fails to achieve that then it is a bad game.
How else are we going to rate a game? its graphics? how much other people like it?
If your not enjoying it,then it sucks.
I call GTAIV,Mass Effect and LA Noire bad games, triple AAA status,its high budget and whatever else that goes into it does not matter if you fail to find enjoyment in your purchase.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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When you say "this game is good" you're really saying "I like this game". I mean, of course you are. Universal values don't exist.

Nothing I hate more than people complaining about a thread saying something is 'good' or 'bad', when they know perfectly well that all it means is the person likes or dislikes something.
 

KaosuHamoni

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As an artistic medium, it is inherently subjective, like paintings, or music. However yes, it's very possible to accept that something is good, without liking it yourself.
 

osiris80

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wookiee777 said:
I got into an argument with my sister over whether a game can be objectively good. I told her that no game is truly "good" or "bad" in the objective sense but what people mean when they say that is "I like this game" or "I do not like this game". She asked about when people say things like "I could recognize that the game was good, but I didn't really like it". I told her that when that is stated it just means that said person has aspects of the game they respect or like, but the game as a whole doesn't satisfy them.

But she stuck to her belief that Good Game=/=Subjective and that I Like It=Subjective only. I figured that these two statements were synonyms basically. What do you think about this, Escapist? Is a game good in the objective sense? Can you dislike a game that is "good"?
Absolutley, if you can't then you're simply not objective when it comes to gaming opinions. I can both hate and admire a game at the same time, that's my objectiveness of being able to appreciate a game, whilst knowing that it doesn't appeal to me personally. There is the reverse that should be true as well, you may like a game, but admit to its failings and claim that it isn't really a very good game overall, but you like some aspects of it enough to make it something you enjoy, whilst still wishing that it were a better game.

The classics 'I love this game and its great' as well as 'I hate this game, and its terrible' are pure subjectivism, and whilst often true, being that the mechanics of a game lead you to your opinion, if you don't leave room for the juxtaposition, then you're simply not objective.
 

WoW Killer

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There is an objective sense of a good game. Objective properties are things like production quality, performance, balance, polish. You can absolutely have a high quality, well crafted game that you happen to not like. Whether you call that a "good game" is more a common language issue. You've defined the two uses of the phrase right there in the OP. Both uses exist in common language, so neither of you are wrong.
 

Flames66

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A "good" game is very hard to define. Games can be objectively bad (They don't function, they are frustrating to play) but what makes a good game varies from person to person. Unless a universal standard is reached I think I agree with your definition.
 

Smertnik

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Yes, video games have an inherent quality which can objectively analysed, just like any other product. You have to consider aspects like writing, graphics quality, gameplay mechanics, art design, map design, voice acting, etc. How much you like the game in question isn't one of them, however. You can very well have fun with a rubbish game and not enjoy a masterfully crafted classic but that doesn't make the trash good and vice versa.
 

katsabas

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Uncharted 2 was very good but I traded it and didn't get Uncharted 3. The series in general is very good but it's not my cup of tea.

So yeah, a game can be good but the same person that said that can not like it.
 

blazearmoru

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wookiee777 said:
I got into an argument with my sister over whether a game can be objectively good. I told her that no game is truly "good" or "bad" in the objective sense but what people mean when they say that is "I like this game" or "I do not like this game". She asked about when people say things like "I could recognize that the game was good, but I didn't really like it". I told her that when that is stated it just means that said person has aspects of the game they respect or like, but the game as a whole doesn't satisfy them.

But she stuck to her belief that Good Game=/=Subjective and that I Like It=Subjective only. I figured that these two statements were synonyms basically. What do you think about this, Escapist? Is a game good in the objective sense? Can you dislike a game that is "good"?
you are WRONG. Why can't something be objectively better than another in it's on genre? You can't compare action to rts but you can tell when something's total shit. Yes a game isn't good subjectively if the subjected person is an arrogant moron incapable of any amount of logical thinking, and only likes fighting games but was forced to sit through an RTS but you know what? That's obviously subjective. You can tell when something does it's JOB right. A game is good if it can achieve it's intended purpose. That's it. Same with movies. Same with everything else. Not that difficult to understand. :|

I fucking hate League of Legends. The game's whole concept revolves around the sole concept of DPS. All the fucking characters are the same. All the fucking items are to modify damage, heal being reverse damage. The mechanic is based around the single value that is DMG, it is by logical necessity imbalanced. Stupidity are often inconsequential. Catching up requires the other team to fuck up, instead of your team pulling clever shit out of your ass. Runes, Levels, and Hero release are a shameless money scam. Heroes that come out are either imba or buffed to be imba, as a money scam. The marketting is a psychological scam. The Runes, Levels, and Hero releases are also psychological scams (look up B.F. Skinner). The game's single and only upside is that it's incredibly inclusive - which is ALSO a money scam. I look at this game and get disgusted at it given I understand the psychology working behind the game. Does that make it a bad game? No. I believe it's a great game, because it's both inclusive and competitive, a rare combination but EVEN if I believed it's a terrible game, doesn't change the fact that it's inclusive, it's competitive, ripping off countless players daily, and it's immersing for those who only want brainless fun. A movie is good if it's immersing. A song is good if it's immersing. Art is good if it's immersing. If it's purpose is to immerse it's audience and give about an array of emotions ; A game is a good if it's *immersing.*
 

JdaS

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Yes, a game can be objectively good. Just as it can be bad. Let's use the oft-acclaimed GTA IV as an example. It's a good game. The writing is good, the gameplay is good. It's a great game. Yet public opinion is different. Some love it while others find some aspects irksome.

Just as a bad game, one where even the most simple of aspects just fails to work, ex. MindJack, is objectively bad. But somewhere out there, in this crazy ass world, some guy is enjoying the hell out of his 78th playthrough.

That's my opinion anyway.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Well, Bioshock was good I guess, but it's just not my cup of tea. I can appreciate the things that it does and point out why I consider it good, but I still don't like it. I also like games I consider bad, but I wont mention which ones because I might get murdered for it.
 

Piorn

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That would mean I would call my favorite games "flawless", but they are far from it.
Also, since a game can be objectively bad, be it sloppy design or programming, I'd say a game can at least be "better" than other games.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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I don't entirely agree with either of you.
It all depends on the context.

A lot of the time online when someone says "This game is good", its because they enjoyed it, not because it is objectively good.
However, when they say "Its a good game, but I didn't enjoy it", it can be that they enjoyed certain aspects of the game, but not it overall, or they may have enjoyed nothing but seen potential for a different audience to enjoy it.

Even then sometimes people will state good games based off semi-objective qualities to try and escape subjectivity, even though that is impossible. The main thing here is what constitutes good, what constitutes bad, and what constitutes mediocre, though all these things will change from conversation to conversation.

A number of people think that a game is only good if they enjoyed it. This works for them, but is utterly useless for defining whether a game is actually good or not, and something someone should think about buying. I enjoyed the first half or so of Duke Nukem Forever, though many people hated all of it and consider it a bad game.
Other people think whether a game is good or not should come down to its more objective factors - Aesthetic, Smoothness of play, Story - however whether each of these is good is also subjective, and based largely on the above problem that it is enjoyable, but that changes from person to person.

In general for a good game, I look for nothing more than polish. It may be enjoyable, it may not be, but if it is very well polished I will feel like I got my money's worth out of it. In general, if its polished, it will have a good aesthetic, smoothness of play and story, though people prefer different things along those lines I try to cut that out and work by the style the game seems to be aiming for, and how it executes that.
This has flaws in that, whilst less than the simple "Its enjoyable" definition, it is still effected by subjectivity, and it still doesn't tell you whether a game will be enjoyable or not.

Overall, deciding what constitutes a good game from an objective point of view is impossible, and doing it from a subjective point of view is pointless. This is why I rarely watch/read reviews. Instead, I read the objective facts about the game - what its controls are, Look at pictures of what its graphics and aesthetic look like, read up on any bugs, its system requirements to determine its Framerate on my machine, and then gameplay on Youtube to see how it works [Or playing a demo in store or at a friends]. That is far more valuable information than whether someone enjoyed a game, and allows you to decide whether you are likely to enjoy it, which the statement of "This is a good game" can not do.
Why? Because an objectively good game does not exist, and whether one person subjectively enjoyed a game has no bearing on whether you will.