Grand Theft Auto V Torture Scene Causes Uproar

[Clovus]

"Four to five-year-olds have a tendency to copy what they see on TV, whether it's this or Fireman Sam putting out fires," she said. "ATL is not calling for a ban on these games, or censorship at all. What we are asking is for parents to become aware that the little ones are seeing these things."

Of course, the little ones aren't meant to be seeing these things, and it's arguable that giving a guy the juice is hardly the worst thing you'll do in But as Best pointed out, torture, unlike most of the other excesses depicted in GTA, is something that actually happens in real life.

It always goes back to why the hell are you letting your kids play this stuff? You wouldn't let your kid watch A Serbian FIlm or Ichi the Killer, don't let them play GTA.

The ATL was being totally reasonable here, but the OP left out some of the article:

while the release also prompted Alison Sherratt, president of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, to warn that young children watching their siblings play may not be able to tell that it is fictional.

So, they understand that kids shouldn't be playing, parents shouldn't let their kids play, and they should make sure those kids aren't around when older siblings are playing either. They were issuing a warning that makes sense.

 

[snekadid]

IT'S RATED M! IT'S A GAME ABOUT MURDER AND DRUG USE(and admittedly stealing cars at one or two points) WHICH IS OPENLY STATED ON THE DAMN BOX! For god sake..... if you let your children play this you should have them taken away. Them saying 4-5 year old only made their argument even more ridiculous.

Let's stop harassing game designers for what they choose to depict in their games and let's start going after the terrible parents that I would flat out give absentee status because they obviously are not paying attention to what their kids are doing or even what they buy for them, unless of course the 4yo has a job and fake ID, in which case I'd say the toddler earned the right to shoot a hooker.

From all accounts, I understand how this could be a sore spot for someone that's been tortured in the past, BUT, it appears that the only real way this is a valid claim is if Rockstar had glorified torture which seems to be the opposite of the case.
Every review and post describes it as a horrifying and very sobering experience which if anything helps inform people in a simulated(since actually making someone torture someone to gain knowledge is "unethical".... babies) way about torture and the really just terrible circumstances around it which could only get their group more support by RAISING AWARENESS.

Stop attacking peoples messages due to knee jerk reactions and look for a bigger picture, it reminds me of my favorite example of the "Comic book code" where there was a list of things your comic book could not contain(really long list, very stupid, google it if you're interested) in order to get the seal of approval. This included messages against the subject matter, such as drug use, which is what happened when Marvel made a spiderman comic where they did a antidrug story showing the pain and problems associated with it and it was refused the seal. Context is everything.

 

[Parasondox]

Its odd, the people online who are most agaist this all have really nice things to say about shows like Breaking Bad and 24.

Well put. And these are the same people I bet that love Game of Thrones, The Sopranos, The Wire too cause those shows aren't violent at all ¬_¬. The news media loves when GTA comes out cause they will write any bullshit to get cheap ratings.

 

[Ticklefist]

Although you'll try, there's no intelligent way to argue against this statement:

"ATL is not calling for a ban on these games, or censorship at all. What we are asking is for parents to become aware that the little ones are seeing these things."

 

[Hagi]

"If Rockstar North's message is a satirical critique of the practice of torture, it's lost on us."

At least there's some self-awareness. It's lost on them. They heard about something second-hand, if even that, without any accompanying context let alone experiencing it themselves.

So yeah, they're right. It's lost on them. Not through Rockstar's fault but because they themselves did not make any effort whatsoever to look further into it.

 

[toastdieb]

Spoiler

To put it in perspective for the people who haven't or aren't going to play GTA 5, the torture scene in question is forced upon the character, who admits they are only doing it because they have to. You are under the thumb of a government agency who has kidnapped a clearly innocent American citizen because he is of Middle Eastern descent, and you are forced to use his probably inaccurate torture-testimony to assassinate a probably-also-innocent Middle Eastern man. Throughout the entire ordeal, the torture victim is entirely cooperative and is providing all the information he can(which isn't much) - the torture is entirely unnecessary but is still ordered to be carried out by the government agent.

I just got through that part last night. I probably spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out how to get out of it without actually torturing the guy before settling on just beating him with the wrench since that seemed like it would cause the least amount of permanent damage. The scene definitely works though - it really makes you hate the people making you do it, which is exactly what it is supposed to do.

Anyone who knows the context of the scene and has followed it through to its conclusion at the end of the mission, and doesn't get that it is supposed to be a condemnation, not glorification, of the use of torture by governments, is being intentionally daft and sensationalist.

 

[Goliath100]

The entire questline is a condemnation of human rights violations in the name of "the war on terror"....

SPOILERS AHEAD

You rescue the victim from a branch of the government who are currently torturing him, only to have the branch you are working for instruct Trevor (a complete fucking maniac) to torture him instead. The information provided from the torture scene is vague and multiple lampshades are hung on this fact. Michael- the assasin who acts upon the information- even remarks that he probably "killed a man who didn't deserve it" based on the description given by the victim that contained phrases like "average height, average build." After the scene is over Trevor is instructed to kill the man he has tortured, he instead drives him to the airport, instructing him to live on under the radar since anything else would be becoming a "torture advocate."

Trevor openly admits that he tortured a man because he is a total fucking monster and enjoyed it, not because it was useful or right. If that isn't a condemnation of torture then what is?

Trevor's actions needs more consequences for the game to condemn them properly. Something really bad need to bite the psycho in the ass (like rats), and need to be related to the actions that was taken.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

The ATL was being totally reasonable here,

I agree completely

 

[Zer0Saber]

Lets get rid of it in all our movies, all our books, and all our video games......Video games always have to be singled out huh. yes children are impressionable, but they shouldn't be playing or watching this just like they shouldn't be watching Machete Kills. Also, yes I understand that some people have personal traumatic experiences that can cause this to have a great effect on them, I get that, but if everything had to appeal to everyone nothing would work because that is impossible. If you don't like it for what ever reason then that's your bag and you carry it. I personally don't have a problem with this and any other thing that is part of a narrative or story in any form. Even if I don't like the story I don't have an issue because it's just a story and it's up to everyone individually of appropriate mind to decide whether or not to take part in it.........Also if you let a 5yr old watch this you suck.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

The scene isn't meant to make light or be satirical. Its painful to watch and participate in, I was cringing the whole time, and it takes A LOT to get me to that point. But I'm not condemning it any way. It did exactly what any form of art is meant to do, evoke emotion. I don't know why our particular medium is still being harassed while those same people could praise breaking bad (rightly so) for its intense imagery and narrative, or look at a a painting of the virgin Mary made of shit and menstrual blood and praise its symbolism, having discussions over what the artists TRUE intentions were. The game's story features nothing that doesn't already exist in every other form of media. It bothers me that instead of praising the games ability to make you actually feel thngs and its amazing story are just brushed over in mainstream media in favor of ratings boosting straw men. If this were a movie or a tv series, it would be winning award after award for the exact same things it depicts in its game form.

 

[rasta111]

How can people can ramble on about these things then so casually overlook the fact these are videogames we're talking about...

It's not really happening for heavens sake.

There are plenty of bad things really happening but you don't see anyone doing anything about that... Perhaps videogames are to blame. /sarcasm

 

[lacktheknack]

And yet all was cool when churches across the US bought hundreds of thousands of tickets for "Passion of the Christ" and demanded every man woman child see the film which is quite literally torture porn.

Wat.

No credible church said that children should watch "The Passion of the Christ". Furthermore, it has much more purpose than pure torture porn, as it gave some visceral context and reference to the sacrifice of Christ. It left the Christian audience with a higher respect for the movie's subject. Hostel? Not so much. It was made because Eli Roth gets off on guts.

Context is everything.

By extension, GTAV could be using the "Spec Ops" approach to decry torture, but all I can say is that the scene isn't making me want to buy the game.

 

[oldtaku]

Looks like Rockstar's free advertising through controversy is right on schedule again.

They plan this, guys. They even get the ball rolling if nobody's outraged enough, like they did with GTA3.

 

[Alexander Kirby]

How do these groups expect to raise awareness if at the same time trying to hide it from us, and it's not like GTA was trying to make fun or light of the subject, I'd understand the outcry if this were the case.

It's always the same; a movie can do it but a game can't, and I'm really not one for the "but games are different because you do it" because I know from years of personal experience that this is not the case.

Also, I take it these guys must have missed that bit in FarCry 3.

 

[weirdee]

Is anybody still wondering why Australia had hangups on SR4 but gave this the ok? Is it because they perceived the relative realism to be less damaging to teenagers than wacky obscenities?

 

[Undomesticated Equine]

Torture in games bad. Torture in movies meh who cares. Many many times I have seen torture in movies and TV shows. I doubt they were so vocal when Ramsay Bolton had fun with Theon Turncloak or on many other showings of torture on TV.

 

[Icehearted]

Of course, the little ones aren't meant to be seeing these things, and it's arguable that giving a guy the juice is hardly the worst thing you'll do in Grand Theft Auto V. But as Best pointed out, torture, unlike most of the other excesses depicted in GTA, is something that actually happens in real life.

But drug use, prostitution, murder, vehicular homicide, robbery, carjacking, stabbing, shootings, assault don't happen in real life?

Also, when did it become Rockstar's job to moderate what children are seeing? When did it stop being a parent's full responsibility?

 

[wearesoneutralthatithurts]

"This adds insult to injury for survivors who are left physically and mentally scarred by torture in the real world," he said. "If Rockstar North's message is a satirical critique of the practice of torture, it's lost on us."

I find this statement obnoxious. It does not add any insult to injury, it's just a piece of fiction for crying out loud.

And its really great for triggering any PTSD you have.
You know there are enough people who GOT tortured in the USA and else..there are even people who got tortured by the usa or got abducted into 3rd world country and tortured there so that our government can wash its hands and deny anything..


i think it would be nice just to jump over that part-ist just asshole-ish to shock for the shock sake and take the fun people had away and to turn their fun into an full out flashback where they are that tortured or torturing person on the screen and get panic, dissociation or worse.

also, just a trigger warning maybe? So that people with ptsd just not buy this? or make that like the shooting, and free objective where you can choose not to partake-maybe buy someone to do that. (also its really kinda dumb to just torture somebody and then say Eh, I tortured yourself for my boner because I know that torture does shit when its "used" to extract information. if you get electrocuted you just say whatever the torturer wants. you might even sell your grandma to the gestapo just to not get tortured.

mean the USA are so into militarism, veterans and all this shit, so might be in their interest to not fuck the mind of the people they threw into one senseless dumb bullshit war-to not rip pen any wounds which heal badly because the military tends to ignore ptsd-victims. sick system. eh, but its military. you are trained to kill, the heck you need empathy for *shrug*

 

[Snazzymathematics]

Oh for fuck's sake.
THIS GAME IS RATED M. IT IS NOT FOR CHILDREN!
If you don't want your children to watch it, THEN DON'T BUY THE FUCKING GAME!