Grandpa Tastes Concrete Over Videogames

[Crazycat690]

USA really makes me happy I live in Finland

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

As far as I know someone was trampled to death in Black Friday a few years ago, a walmart employee (what a tragic job to die for). Or do you mean deliberate-act-of-violence killed?

http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2011/11/27/man-dies-during-black-friday-shopping-shoppers-ignore-him/

Already happened.

The trample victim was behind doors. That was more of an "man in front of seething crowd" than this one.

What they really need is someone who kills over goods. That will make a really meaty story. Not just sad accidents.

But it keeps people in news, and that's what Black Friday is really about, isn't it?

Because it's certainly not about safety, bargains or retailers.

Retailers lose money, bargains are usually only to the slash prices (which lose the retailers profits), and stores take in more than they can safely handle.

But here's some picture of puppies, so everything's alright again.

CONSUME. PROCREATE. OBEY.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

As fun as it is to scream "Fuck da police" every time one of these stories pops up, has anyone considered the possibility that the old man simply tripped?

An "eyewitness" claimed that the officer hooked the old man's leg and pushed him. Placing a hand on the back of the person you're arresting to lead them out of the store isn't unheard of, and in all the confusion of one of these Black Friday sales, getting caught on someone's leg doesn't seem like a huge stretch of the imagination either.

With your hands cuffed, you can't stop yourself from hitting the ground, and a fall from even a standing height is enough to shatter your nose if you land directly on your face.

...Or maybe the cop was just a psychotic, power-hungry bastard who likes to abuse his position and slam innocent shoppers into the floor to satiate his bloodlust. Who knows?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

An "eyewitness" claimed that the officer hooked the old man's leg and pushed him. Placing a hand on the back of the person you're arresting to lead them out of the store isn't unheard of, and in all the confusion of one of these Black Friday sales, getting caught on someone's leg doesn't seem like a huge stretch of the imagination either.

With your hands cuffed, you can't stop yourself from hitting the ground, and a fall from even a standing height is enough to shatter your nose if you land directly on your face.

Hold on a moment RT.

He was cuffed and being lead out of the store when he "fell"?

Because all the reports say he was "tackled".

And how would he have been "flailing" when cuffed?

If you're an old man "flailing", why would an armed copper tackle you from behind, while restraining your arms so you fell directly on your face?

Try this out with your friends tonight - Preferably somewhere where you can fall onto a bed. Try and re-create the situation where you go down heavily on your face.

Because I'm pretty sure that's impossible unless your assailant restrains your arms and then kicks you to the floor in a sacrificial throw.

And that's not part of Police training.

 

[omega 616]

You mean American cops didn't just blow him away, then plant a gun on him later? They didn't even pepper spray him? Wow, sounds like he got off lightly!

All joking aside, do they get paid extra for excessive force? The guy is a grandfather who put the game in his waistband (not exactly hiding it), then they flatten him for resisting arrest? I bet the guy was just trying to explain while the ham fisted doughnut muncher wanted to meet his arrest quota for the month.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Eh... hard to say. We're in crazy times when people get pepper sprayed for video games, lose a finger over an ipad, have guns pulled on them for cellphones, and so forth. Just because this involved an older man doesn't mean the police should have, or are able to, let their guards down.

Oh come on it's America, the guy can be happy they didn't gun him down.

Or vice-versa.

A Use-of-Force Continuum would demonstrate the level required to take down an older man who is not brandishing a weapon or causing violence to anyone currently. Using the 'crazy-times' argument is not relevant here. If they are unable to be responsible with their power, it's time to move on to a job that suits their power fantasy. Police everywhere are required to use the minimal amount of force to get the person involved to comply on a CASE BY CASE basis.

In this case...how about asking some questions?

That's a lot of blood for what MIGHT have been attempted theft.

Wasn't trying to justify it per sey. Like I said it's hard to say, the video we saw hardly tells the whole story. I'm sure the surveillance footage from Wal-mart's cameras will find its way online in time, at that point it might be easier to understand the officers actions or say for certain they used excessive force. From everything I've read on this, by all means, the officer seems to be at fault, but again, hard to say, people are so eager to point the finger at police these days.

This is a major training fail on the part of the police. Shoplifting does NOT warrent that sort of take down. Especially in the case of a fairly scrawny old man. If you can't handle a suspect without the use of a taser, pepper spray, or beating them unconcious, you don't deserve a badge.

It's always difficult with these things. I've, like many, did a stint working in retail stores, and the things that shoplifters did to employees who tried to question them or pull them aside is unbelievable. It not always the people you'd expect doing these things either. One wouldn't expect a middle-aged woman stealing beauty products to break out in a fit of violence, but it happens, probably more than most would think.

 

[Brawndo]

Why do the news outlets insist on calling him a "grandfather"? It's a weasel word intended to generate sympathy from the audience, meaning it is biased reporting. Just say, "a 54 year-old man" because that is neutral. It's okay to say that he was at the store with his grandson, but let the readers draw their own conclusions from the article.

That being said, the cops were wrong. He hasn't committed shoplifting until all the elements are satisfied: concealment alone is not sufficient. Generally the only way to demonstrate criminal intent is to walk out of the store. When I worked in retail we were not allowed to confront a suspected shoplifter until they were headed for the door.

 

[cswurt]

Just because he's old doesn't mean he's some gentle, innocent, poor little victim.

Dicks are dicks regardless of age, gender, or attractiveness.

We don't need to go sobbing over some poor little boy crying because his grandpa's got a bloody face. I'm sure he deserved it.

 

[Count Igor]

I know it's a HL2 Quote, it still isn't a laughing matter. If I were just trying to get someone on the ground, kicking away there legs when they are already cuffed WOULD NOT be my solution to the problem. That can ONLY lead to the person getting hurt.

Yeah. It is pretty funny.
And he wasn't already cuffed, you can see them cuffing him at the start of the video when he's already on the ground.

Fuck this ''accident''. They are supposedly trained to handle difficult situations, a older guy who is already cuffed is not a difficult situation, it is a shame that you are actually trying to defend such bullshit behavior. Why give them a taste of their own medicine? Well, gee, probably because the fucks will face absolutely no reprecussions otherwise, there will be no justice and if those that are supposed to be protecting people are getting away with hurting them for no reason, yeah, I say group up on the fuckers just like they would group up on you. But thats ok, you can stand on the sidelines and think this is ok, fine by me, I'll even remain prepared to get said fuckers off of you should you ever end up the victim of such a ''accident'' when I'm around.

Again, not cuffed as far as I can see.
You do know what an accident is, right? And how they can happen to aaaanyone? Everyone makes mistakes.
And I never said I was defending it. Remember? Down at the bottom, it says I was merely disagreeing with the way *you* are saying it all.
Justice =/= Revenge. Look at the difference between them.

Yes, they're meant to be protecting people. Like they've done in the past. You know, the many times they've done something good and you haven't cared?

Yup. They'll group up on you and start beating you viciously because you accidentally hurt someone. That's totally a natural response from a police officer.

Did I ever say this was okay? Or, you know, say I agreed with what happened? In fact, I said it was a mistake to conduct it in this way. Please remember this.
If I end up the victim of this accident.. Why was I putting it in my trousers in the first place? That's just silly.
Oh. Yeah, you'll totally be getting them off me, won't you. Because you're such a tough, manly "for the people" kind of guy.
This is the internet. There's, what, a million in one chance you'd do anything that you say? And if you did, you'd be in the wrong. Because that's an "obstruction of justice". That justice you love so very much. And you know what happens after you do this heroic action? Not just you getting detained and possibly prosecuted depending how far your "Justice" takes you. Not just that, no. I'd probably get in even more trouble, because they'll be both pissed off at the situation and take some rash actions, but also they might decide to link me in with you.
So thanks for that. It makes me feel so much safer.

But for the record, no, I've never hurt anyone to that kind of degree. You see, I personally have a stance of ''show the person I am not to be fucked with and then let them be''. Have I hurt someone before? Hell yeah, but never any even vaguely serious injury, infact, blood has yet flow. No need for it. I've also been attacked with a knife before, what did I do? I took the knife away, got rid of it and held the person down without causing them any injury whatsoever.

Also, what were they trying to accomplish at that point? If they were trying to injure his face, then congradulations, they managed that. What else were they trying? He was already cuffed and hadn't even actually done anything at that point. The cop even creating a situation at this point was also entirely unnecessary. So what precisely did these fucks manage aside from hurting someone who may have wanted to commit a crime, but hadn't actually done so yet or even actually attempted it? Protip: The answer is they managed nothing positive.

Did I say to that degree? All I said was hurt.
And that stance can mean anything. It can mean stabbing someone's mother for stepping on your toe. It's just silly. Like "I could care less".
Oh look, you haven't injured someone seriously. Neither have I! Let's have a tea party. :3
But.. what is "serious" to you?
Though congratulations on the knife. If it went exactly how you said, very well done. But I doubt it did. Because things are always biased, remember.

Noooot cuffed from what I can see.
I'm guessing they were trying to stop him before he went anywhere or did anything? Apparently he was waving his arms around being a jackass, which could be threatening them (in the angry way most people do) and shouting profanities, which would make them slightly nervous.
Remember that heroic action with detaining the knife guy? When you got him onto the floor, it would have been veeery easy to hurt *his* face. It was a lot of chance you didn't and they did.

There also was a situation, as it says. And they accomplished in stopping him from doing anything rash. They accomplished it badly, yes. But they still did it. (That's a positive.)
But thanks for the Protip. I needed one of those from a pro like you. No, seriously. I am not joking. At all. Really. Believe me.
...Nah. I'm kidding. I was joking.

Shit happens and it's a part of that line of work, if you go for it, you should know what you are taking upon yourself. That however gives you no right whatsoever to use excessive force in all cases because of the off psychotic you might get. As stated above, either these people are not cut out for the job or they are just violent motherfuckers looking for an excuse.

Shit does happen. That's kind of my point. They're not the violent bastards you seem to think everyone but you (the heroic justice lover) is. They made a mistake, they hurt someone, it all went badly. There wasn't the intention for this amount of force, you just are using your reasoning of how much everyone sucks in this world.

Who are you to say they're not cut out? Because they aren't perfect in every department required for it?
Because you certainly aren't perfect. (Here's where you say "I know I'm not" or something to that extent to make everyone think you're modest. Most people do it, that's why I'm saying it.) But, you know.. I don't really care. Do your best, and that's good enough for me.

And why do you think they're violent people just itching for a reason, again? As you've said, you've hurt people (And that "Show them I'm not to be fucked with" really makes you seem like you're a bit psychotic/violent). Does that make you a violent "************"?


--
On a personal note, can we cut down on the obscenities? They're really un-necessary.

Edit: Saying it again, the police were wrong here. That's my opinion.
But you're also wrong, in my view. - Not in a bad way, of course.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

An "eyewitness" claimed that the officer hooked the old man's leg and pushed him. Placing a hand on the back of the person you're arresting to lead them out of the store isn't unheard of, and in all the confusion of one of these Black Friday sales, getting caught on someone's leg doesn't seem like a huge stretch of the imagination either.

With your hands cuffed, you can't stop yourself from hitting the ground, and a fall from even a standing height is enough to shatter your nose if you land directly on your face.

Hold on a moment RT.

He was cuffed and being lead out of the store when he "fell"?

Because all the reports say he was "tackled".

And how would he have been "flailing" when cuffed?

If you're an old man "flailing", why would an armed copper tackle you from behind, while restraining your arms so you fell directly on your face?

Try this out with your friends tonight - Preferably somewhere where you can fall onto a bed. Try and re-create the situation where you go down heavily on your face.

Because I'm pretty sure that's impossible unless your assailant restrains your arms and then kicks you to the floor in a sacrificial throw.

And that's not part of Police training.

I've seen conflicting reports on this. Some say the man was flailing, others that he went quietly. Some say the man was tackled, others say the officer shoved him to the ground. Eyewitnesses are funny like that.

If the old man was indeed cuffed, as the majority of the reports seem to say, then his arms were restrained when he took the plunge. Perhaps "directly on his face" was a poor choice of words, since it would indeed be difficult to hit face first. I meant that his face took the brunt of the impact, which can happen if you don't stop yourself with your hands (he was cuffed) or at least your knees (I didn't see how he fell).

 

[The Funslinger]

So... he tried to resist being handcuffed and led away, when his grandson was in danger of being trampled. Gee, I wonder why...

 

[Jfswift]

This is why I don't go shopping on Black Friday. If he's still inside the store it's not shoplifting. Last I checked anyway.

 

[xdiesp]

Americans love it when the authorities round some of them and pound them dead. It makes them feel safer.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

The cop that did it must of had a really boring career up until then and decided to make his own sick twisted version of entertainment out of what he did.

There is absolutely, absolutely no reason for what he did.

Seriously, a simple "excuse me sir, do you plan on paying for that?" would have sufficed.

Totally this.

If the officer didn't ask that first, then the case should be thrown out immediately, and the man should sue the badges off that police department.

But even if the guy resisted arrest, the report said that the guy had already been handcuffed. At that point, there is absolutely no reason to use enough force to smash a guy's face into concrete, causing him to practically drown in his own blood.

I'm all for police having the ability to subdue criminals, but what this cop did was utter bullshit.

 

[Freaky Lou]

It's a vast minority of police officers that are actually bad, the problem is that the rest of the force have this idiotic idea that they have to cover for these guys and so the problem persists and the entire police force looks crap for it.

Well, that is a problem of its own, isn't it?

I wonder what type of reforms could be enacted that'd change the focus from "protect the force" to "protect the populace".

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

If the old man was indeed cuffed, as the majority of the reports seem to say, then his arms were restrained when he took the plunge. Perhaps "directly on his face" was a poor choice of words, since it would indeed be difficult to hit face first. I meant that his face took the brunt of the impact, which can happen if you don't stop yourself with your hands (he was cuffed) or at least your knees (I didn't see how he fell).

This is where the problem lies.

If he was cuffed, as witnesses say, why was he pushed to the floor?

If he was flailing, as police say, why didn't he protect his face or roll when he fell?

I understand witness reports can vary, but when none of them seem to corroborate what happened?

For instance, why was he cuffed in the first place?

 

[Random berk]

If the guy cooperated enough to allow them to get the handcuffs on BEFORE drilling his head into the concrete, then there is no way he started resisting to the point where he could have been dangerous. This was sadism and brutality, pure and simple. These cops should lose their badges, and be sued for medical bills by the old guy.

Also, fair play to the bystanders who risked their own health and stepped out of the crowd to help clean him up. I've seen videos like this where the cops arrested and fucked up any onlookers who stepped within a certain distance of them.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Alright, you forced my hand. America: RELAX. No. NO. Just. Fucking.

RELAX.

You're gonna have a friggin' heart attack.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

This is where the problem lies.

If he was cuffed, as witnesses say, why was he pushed to the floor?

If he was flailing, as police say, why didn't he protect his face or roll when he fell?

I understand witness reports can vary, but when none of them seem to corroborate what happened?

I'm saying he might not have been pushed. I might not have explained that well enough. I was trying to bring up the possibility that it looked like he was pushed.

The officer had his hand on the man's back, and his legs might have gotten tangled with his. This would have led to the unfortunate accident of a cuffed old man faceplanting into concrete, but could easily look like the officer shoving him to an onlooker.

 

[ace_of_something]

accused him of shoplifting, clapped on the cuffs and, shortly thereafter, invited him to take a closer look at Wal-Mart's interesting concrete floor. The video to the right shows the result- Newman lying on the floor, choking on his own blood.

Hi! I'm a police officer and it's unfortunate that the old man got his face smashed, but that happens sometimes in a takedown. My guess was unless this particular officer is an idiot that the takedown occurred because the individual tried to pull away.
Also, as per most departmental policy you do NOT takedown someone already in handcuffs unless they're getting crazy violent. You control them with the handcuffs. More likely he was taken down THEN handcuffed (if someone is being nasty enough to be taken down then you should be handcuffing them first chance)

ANY amount of resistance is met with the minimal force required. A takedown is a lot less force then say, yanking on someone or fist-fighting them until they subdue.
You pull them on to the ground (either by putting them over your hip or yanking their arm downward) then put a knee in their back to keep them in place followed by cuffs. This way the person gets struck maybe once as opposed to repeatedly. typically doesn't result in a person bleeding like crazy

If you do a straight-arm-bar takedown (which is what it looked like) correctly most healthy people will at worst have a scrape on their chest/face. Though this guy was in his 50's I'm sure the officer didn't exactly know all that.

This ALL being said. Typically you wait until someone leaves the store or attempts to before it's considered shoplifting so everything after that is a mistake however it went down.