Grandpa Tastes Concrete Over Videogames
- Thread starter The Wooster
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Police are going to arrest more than 10 criminals in their entire career.Beautiful End said:
You must realises that the chances you expect Police to take with suspects are the chances they have to use day-in-day-out for something like 30 years yet they are supposed to make it to retirement WITHOUT getting shot, stabbed or pinned down and beaten by suspects on a regular basis.
Even a soldier in a warzone is only there for a 6 month tour, but police have to live their whole professional lives dealing with armed miscreants and crazy people. And realise they won't know they are until it's too late.
I consider this whenever I have to interact with the police, that I can walk away from this but this is their life they are going to have to face the same shit tomorrow and the day after that...
I have arrested people in my line of work several times and let me tell you these things happen. I don't use violence because it's fun (it's not). If someone is resisting arrest, you can't keep using the same amount of force as you did before, or he'd be gone already. You have to take it up to his level in order to keep him detained.
And once you're up to high levels of force just to keep him still, you have to use slightly more force than him to actually put handcuffs on him. Most of the times, this usually makes the arrester look like they're using "excessive" force, even though it's simply the fact that they're using a higher level of force needed to force his arms back.
With that said, I believe it was appropriate. If he was slammed down to the ground, it was probably because he was trying to use more force than the police to free himself, which ususally ends up with the arrested being hurt.
Assuming someone is evil or a bad person is wrong. Don't go doing it now just because someone was bleeding.
And once you're up to high levels of force just to keep him still, you have to use slightly more force than him to actually put handcuffs on him. Most of the times, this usually makes the arrester look like they're using "excessive" force, even though it's simply the fact that they're using a higher level of force needed to force his arms back.
With that said, I believe it was appropriate. If he was slammed down to the ground, it was probably because he was trying to use more force than the police to free himself, which ususally ends up with the arrested being hurt.
Assuming someone is evil or a bad person is wrong. Don't go doing it now just because someone was bleeding.
Could just be my Britishness but this is just fucking stupid. =/ Here you have to have left the shop or at least appears that you intend on leaving (i.e walking purposefully towards the door and not the checkouts with the item concealed) the shop with said item before it's "shoplifting" (I've worked in a supermarket for five years I know how this stuff works).
If the guy was with his grandkid, presumably he needed to get a hold of him (assuming it was busy it would be quite easy to lose him) and the most convienient place to keep it was the waistband of his trousers. The appropriate thing to do here would have been for the officer to observe the situation and, if it looked like he was heading for the door, then challenge him. Not tackle him and smash his face against the floor.
If the guy was with his grandkid, presumably he needed to get a hold of him (assuming it was busy it would be quite easy to lose him) and the most convienient place to keep it was the waistband of his trousers. The appropriate thing to do here would have been for the officer to observe the situation and, if it looked like he was heading for the door, then challenge him. Not tackle him and smash his face against the floor.
Not in Arizona(and 4 outer states)Cheeseman Muncher said:
its shoplifting if your concealing it
your right just not for where he was at.
LOL ARIZONA!! HAHAHAHA! Wow...
So I thought to be a shoplifter you have to willfully try to leave the store with said product. Is this another one of those insane Arizona laws?
No matter what, if you feel you have to tackle an old guy and smack his head into the concrete just so you can feel you are safe to handcuff him, you shouldn't be a police officer. end of frickin' story.
God... 'Muhrica... you make me so proud sometimes!
So I thought to be a shoplifter you have to willfully try to leave the store with said product. Is this another one of those insane Arizona laws?
No matter what, if you feel you have to tackle an old guy and smack his head into the concrete just so you can feel you are safe to handcuff him, you shouldn't be a police officer. end of frickin' story.
God... 'Muhrica... you make me so proud sometimes!
I'll reserve my judgement for this one. We don't know the exact situation and the video provided only shows the aftermath. Also the statements are kinda contradictory. Not that the police are above lying about that sort of thing, but even the noted witness statement could be just after the man was resisting arrest.
If he was resisting, I don't feel too much sympathy for him. It sucks that he was hurt, but when you resist the police, they will make you comply. By force if necessary. I've seen plenty of people tackled for drunk and disorderly, so I don't put it past them to tackle this man for resisting arrest.
If this is a giant misunderstanding and the man was just putting it there to grab his grandson, this is tragic. But it is easy to see how the police could make such a mistake. Putting anything in your pants like that is suspicious to say the least. Seriously, he couldn't grab a child with one hand? Or put the game down? Or try to stop the people?
I'll be honest it seems odd to say that he had to put the game in his pants like that so he had both hands to grab his grandson to prevent him from being trampled. Seems like that would be delaying his action and leaving him completely unable to garb the child for a few seconds.
If he was resisting, I don't feel too much sympathy for him. It sucks that he was hurt, but when you resist the police, they will make you comply. By force if necessary. I've seen plenty of people tackled for drunk and disorderly, so I don't put it past them to tackle this man for resisting arrest.
If this is a giant misunderstanding and the man was just putting it there to grab his grandson, this is tragic. But it is easy to see how the police could make such a mistake. Putting anything in your pants like that is suspicious to say the least. Seriously, he couldn't grab a child with one hand? Or put the game down? Or try to stop the people?
I'll be honest it seems odd to say that he had to put the game in his pants like that so he had both hands to grab his grandson to prevent him from being trampled. Seems like that would be delaying his action and leaving him completely unable to garb the child for a few seconds.
Pretty much the definition of overkill.
"It's difficult to arrest an individual because you don't know how that individual is going to react." Next thing you know cops will shoot to kill as soon as they see someone they don't like because, hey, you never know.
"It's difficult to arrest an individual because you don't know how that individual is going to react." Next thing you know cops will shoot to kill as soon as they see someone they don't like because, hey, you never know.
Cops do get carried away since they're trained to take control of the situation as quickly as possible which often results in someone getting maced, tazed, or in extreme cases shot.
Another reason why you should spend Thanksgiving with family not at Wal-Mart.
Another reason why you should spend Thanksgiving with family not at Wal-Mart.
The law in pretty much every state is 'You have to catch the shoplifter in the store'. Once they leave the premises with stolen merch, it's game over. Employees can't do anything about it once the shoplifter is out of the store.winter2 said:
As for tackling the old guy...there is evidence to suggest that he resisted arrest before being brought down. At the beginning of the video, you'll notice he already has one pair of handcuffs partially on.
Hmmm.. that is interesting. Even if they are in the parking lot? The reason I'm asking is that I've done my time in retail (6 sucky months) and I would sometimes see them confront whoever did it out in the parking lot. (Sans handcuffs and wrestling them to the ground)Kopikatsu said:
I think it will be interesting cause they should have plenty of footage from the store cameras showing what really happened.
1. If it was really an emergency, he'd have dropped the game, not taken the time to carefully tuck it in his waistband. That's not easy to do in a hurry.Grey Carter said:
2. Yeah, cops tackle people. As the article states, you can't be sure how a person will react. 54 years old isn't elderly or feeble, either. When a cop goes to make an arrest, they immediately set out to immobilize the subject. You don't ask politely twice, because that gives them time to prepare more resistance. Sorry, that's just the way of it.
3. Stop calling him a "grampa." He's a grown man. He's not some hunchbacked, squinty-eyed, half-blind, walker-bound invalid. A man got tackled for what appeared to be attempted shoplifting. No big story here.
I like how the article admits that few facts are known about the issue.
Shame the comment section will inevitably be filled with comments by people who think they know exactly what happened on those scant facts alone. People who'll use it as a launch pad to start harping on about police brutality, or about how cops deserve a break from crazy bystanders.
When all we have to go on is youtube footage of guy on the ground, and a bunch of disagreements amoung the eye witnesses, I think it is sensible to abstain on the matter.
Shame the comment section will inevitably be filled with comments by people who think they know exactly what happened on those scant facts alone. People who'll use it as a launch pad to start harping on about police brutality, or about how cops deserve a break from crazy bystanders.
When all we have to go on is youtube footage of guy on the ground, and a bunch of disagreements amoung the eye witnesses, I think it is sensible to abstain on the matter.
Cops ARE given too much power and privileges today... I am glad this old man didn't have ANY records of the past, or else I bet the cops would totally use it over press against him, and justify their ruthless actions... We never saw this coming; living through the days of "police academy" and "super cop"...etc... never do we suspect our protectors would so soon, turn in to oppressors.
wow... there is an alter-clip of this with POV of FOX news, and their stand point was "... and all these over a $15 dollars video game..." pointing fingers at video games again?
wow... there is an alter-clip of this with POV of FOX news, and their stand point was "... and all these over a $15 dollars video game..." pointing fingers at video games again?
I am so very, very happy we don't have Black Friday in my country if it's as messy as I keep hearing...
God almighty, those police should be ashamed of themselves, then fired, then charged themselves.
It's disturbing how much police brutality related reports are emanating from the US lately, something I find deeply sad and regrettable.
Looks like the police there are drilled with paranoia about weapons so much they've become thugs with badges.
I cannot believe they had the gall to press charges on him.
I also hope he gets himself a good lawyer and sues.
God almighty, those police should be ashamed of themselves, then fired, then charged themselves.
It's disturbing how much police brutality related reports are emanating from the US lately, something I find deeply sad and regrettable.
Looks like the police there are drilled with paranoia about weapons so much they've become thugs with badges.
I cannot believe they had the gall to press charges on him.
I also hope he gets himself a good lawyer and sues.
First of these seems to be police not employees, they have right to arrest shoplifters outside the shop I am sure.Kopikatsu said:
Second there is no evidence at all of the sort. Video begins after he was tackled.
It is just polices word versus this mans. And also witnesses who seems to be on mans side.
And quess what police can and will lie at times. Especially when one of their own is accused of assault or excessive worse. Almost only times police are sentenced for those are when there exist strong video evidence of what they did. Othervise word of police is usually worth more than normal citizens. Which is kinda wrong don't you agree. And even if this man was shoplifting you can't proove it since you can't know his intent. So in essence he did nothing wrong yet he was assaulted by police, and now he is charged.
