Grandpa Tastes Concrete Over Videogames

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Well well well, we've got all the anti-police sentiment out here... and while I agree with most of it as regards this one case, it does ONLY concern THIS ONE CASE.

I am neither defending nor denying police brutality, just pointing out that the actions of *two people* wouldn't normally be used by supposedly rational people to condemn an entire group made that comprises literally hundreds of thousands of others.

Police being encouraged to ignore violent crime and mount unconstitutionally justified raids on people's houses to find marijuana because of the "war on drugs"... THAT'S an endemic problem, folks. This Black Friday business however is just a couple of stressed-out men with a hellishly difficult job, who lost their judgement and went WAY too far. They should be dealt with as individuals and not held up as representative of the entire police force.

 

[Treblaine]

I have studied enough first aid to know that "basic first aid" does NOT supersede all other knowledge and expertise, the recovery-position is good to be taught to people with absolute minimal training but it is Not some sort of Gospel. Again, we are second guessing emergency responders giving them no chance to defend or explain themselves, what their considerations were, I'll tell you there are a myriad of circumstances to consider all at the same time while a jeering crowd are antagonising the situation.

Perhaps this is differences in first aid training between Australia and the US, but I'm going to have to disagree. With any unconscious patient, you do not keep them on their back, you put them in the recovery position unless it is physically impossible to do so. there is too great a risk of airway blockage, either by the guy swallowing his tongue or in this case, possibly drowning in his own blood. And sitting him up like that without supporting his head? What if the fall had damaged his neck or spinal column? That would have only made it worse. All head injuries should be treated as serious, as internal damage could have been done. If they absolutely had to keep the cuffs on, he should have been rolled on his side and have one of the officers support his head. From the perspective of the first aid training I have received, those officers did a very poor job as first responders and could have potentially made the situation worse.


Edit: Thinking on your first sentence some more....the very fact that they didn't appear to know enough 'basic first aid' to treat the man properly makes any of their other experience and knowledge irrelevant. The fact is that their frankly woeful (by Australian standards at least) administration of first aid on display in that video put that man at risk. There were 3 officers at the scene, at least one of them should have been able to provide proper care.

I will grant you differences in training packages (not helped by the fact I can't find what the American Red Cross has as a standard treatment for a head injury), but there'd have to be pretty serious mitigating circumstances (we're talking open abdominal wound serious here) to not put an unconscious patient in the recovery position until help arrives. From the video, even accounting for different training, all three officers did not appear to know what to do, to the point where a shopper and a what looked like a store employee stepped in to help, and what sounded like a another shopper controlling the crowd at the end. That is a really poor show on their part, their training should have kicked in regardless of a hostile crowd.

Look, buddy, I've been trained in life-saving techniques up to the standard of a radiographer. I'll tell you the "swallowing your tongue" is impossible in circumstances like these. And everything you have been taught can and likely will be superseded by more qualified professionals.

It is simply NOT a rule that they MUST stay on their side, for one it is too hard to check for breathing and responsiveness with them on their side. The chest compressions and rescue breaths for example are done with the patient on their back. We don't even hear what they are saying to each other and what their priories are, whether it be damage to the brain or the spine. We don't know about his breathing, circulation or responsiveness.

to the point where a shopper and a what looked like a store employee stepped in to help

Love how you are able to manipulate the depiction of the situation so a member of the public offering an extra pair of hands and some towels as "proof" that the officers are incompetent. Bravo. I mean such a cheap shot must take real skill.

Next time I suppose the police should refuse to accept useful help in case some mealy mouthed punter says:

"Hum num num num... all three officers do not appear to know what to do!" *smug*

Ah, but then the same people could turn it around for incompetence for the police to refuse help...

It is the police's job to serve the public but cooperation with the public is a VITAL part, surely you realise that, EVERYONE has a responsibility to help. You know what is jeopardising the situation, is the loud and jeering crowd who are far too close, you think you can listen for breathing with those jackals a few feet away?

I get a lot of discrepancies in your concerns, you admit you do not know about American Red Cross training and you have NOT given them a chance to explain themselves yet you are happy to declare them to have done a "really poor show". You haven't given them a chance to defend themselves not have expert testimony, you can't even find the standards for that region!

 

[Dendio]

I imagine it played out like this:

Man in the middle of chaos called black friday tucks the game in his shirt and goes after his kid. A cop comes along and accuses the man of shoplifting. The man tries to explain but there is noise and commotion and the officer doesnt want to hear him out. Officer slaps some cuffs, the man resists while trying to reason with the officer. Officer sweep kicks the man to the floor knocking him out and busting his nose. Blood poors out, and everyone pulls out their camera phones.

1- Police should stop being so arrogant and treat people like human beings.

2- black friday shoppers need to calm down. People shouldnt be ripping gifts out of others hands no matter what the discount is

 

[Beautiful End]

Chances are 1 out of 10 people they arrest are actually armed criminals.

Police are going to arrest more than 10 criminals in their entire career.

You must realises that the chances you expect Police to take with suspects are the chances they have to use day-in-day-out for something like 30 years yet they are supposed to make it to retirement WITHOUT getting shot, stabbed or pinned down and beaten by suspects on a regular basis.

Even a soldier in a warzone is only there for a 6 month tour, but police have to live their whole professional lives dealing with armed miscreants and crazy people. And realise they won't know they are until it's too late.

I consider this whenever I have to interact with the police, that I can walk away from this but this is their life they are going to have to face the same shit tomorrow and the day after that...

Oh, I understand all that, which is why I'm kinda torn with this article.

I know cops are risking their lives everyday and that even a 50 year old guy who looks like he's about to break his hip could easily pull out a gun and kill them in a second. But...I don't know. I still don't think this was okay. In this case, I still believe they exaggerated and they're just not willing to accept it. They never do.

Personally, I've never heard a cop say "Hey, you know what? I screwed up, okay? I shouldn't have overreacted and that's my bad". For whatever reason, they just don't say that. And the look on that lady cop's face in the video just pissed me off. It was kinda like "Oh, calm down! He's not DEAD! Guy can't even handle a blow to the face. What a pussy". To me. That's my problem. But I totally get what you're saying, though.

 

[Treblaine]

Chances are 1 out of 10 people they arrest are actually armed criminals.

Police are going to arrest more than 10 criminals in their entire career.

You must realises that the chances you expect Police to take with suspects are the chances they have to use day-in-day-out for something like 30 years yet they are supposed to make it to retirement WITHOUT getting shot, stabbed or pinned down and beaten by suspects on a regular basis.

Even a soldier in a warzone is only there for a 6 month tour, but police have to live their whole professional lives dealing with armed miscreants and crazy people. And realise they won't know they are until it's too late.

I consider this whenever I have to interact with the police, that I can walk away from this but this is their life they are going to have to face the same shit tomorrow and the day after that...

Oh, I understand all that, which is why I'm kinda torn with this article.

I know cops are risking their lives everyday and that even a 50 year old guy who looks like he's about to break his hip could easily pull out a gun and kill them in a second. But...I don't know. I still don't think this was okay. In this case, I still believe they exaggerated and they're just not willing to accept it. They never do.

Personally, I've never heard a cop say "Hey, you know what? I screwed up, okay? I shouldn't have overreacted and that's my bad". For whatever reason, they just don't say that. And the look on that lady cop's face in the video just pissed me off. It was kinda like "Oh, calm down! He's not DEAD! Guy can't even handle a blow to the face. What a pussy". To me. That's my problem. But I totally get what you're saying, though.

Of course they over-reacted, as it turns out he was an unarmed with no violent intent BUT HOW COULD THEY HAVE KNOWN THAT AT THE TIME!

See that is hindsight for you. Something that kangaroo courts like internet forums and trial-by-media like to act like their unofficial defendant has the benefit of.

Screwed up would mean if they rewound the clock with the same information and circumstances then they should not have done the same thing. When really, they would have made the same decision. It's just unfortunate that he landed flat on his face, I doubt that was the intention of the 5-foot-something woman who appears to be the arresting officer who obviously would have no chance trying to drag him down with a gentle tackle, her only option would be a trip.

And the look on that lady cop's face in the video just pissed me off.

You're letting your prejudices make you biased. Her expression is hardly relevant.

Is it some kind of sexism? That a woman should be loving and graceful, that a woman failing to coo and be deferential to the shoplifter who tried to resist her and threaten her, and to the jackals who accuse her of being a brute... that lack of deference makes you angry?!?

I see nothing wrong with her expression though I tend to have a lot less traditional ideas of women's role in society. They can and should be curt when necessary just like men can.

What has happened here is an accident. The arrest was justified, the fall so hard was not intended, that does not make the arrest unjustified.

 

[Beautiful End]

Chances are 1 out of 10 people they arrest are actually armed criminals.

Police are going to arrest more than 10 criminals in their entire career.

You must realises that the chances you expect Police to take with suspects are the chances they have to use day-in-day-out for something like 30 years yet they are supposed to make it to retirement WITHOUT getting shot, stabbed or pinned down and beaten by suspects on a regular basis.

Even a soldier in a warzone is only there for a 6 month tour, but police have to live their whole professional lives dealing with armed miscreants and crazy people. And realise they won't know they are until it's too late.

I consider this whenever I have to interact with the police, that I can walk away from this but this is their life they are going to have to face the same shit tomorrow and the day after that...

Oh, I understand all that, which is why I'm kinda torn with this article.

I know cops are risking their lives everyday and that even a 50 year old guy who looks like he's about to break his hip could easily pull out a gun and kill them in a second. But...I don't know. I still don't think this was okay. In this case, I still believe they exaggerated and they're just not willing to accept it. They never do.

Personally, I've never heard a cop say "Hey, you know what? I screwed up, okay? I shouldn't have overreacted and that's my bad". For whatever reason, they just don't say that. And the look on that lady cop's face in the video just pissed me off. It was kinda like "Oh, calm down! He's not DEAD! Guy can't even handle a blow to the face. What a pussy". To me. That's my problem. But I totally get what you're saying, though.

Of course they over-reacted, as it turns out he was an unarmed with no violent intent BUT HOW COULD THEY HAVE KNOWN THAT AT THE TIME!

See that is hindsight for you. Something that kangaroo courts like internet forums and trial-by-media like to act like their unofficial defendant has the benefit of.

Screwed up would mean if they rewound the clock with the same information and circumstances then they should not have done the same thing. When really, they would have made the same decision. It's just unfortunate that he landed flat on his face, I doubt that was the intention of the 5-foot-something woman who appears to be the arresting officer who obviously would have no chance trying to drag him down with a gentle tackle, her only option would be a trip.

And the look on that lady cop's face in the video just pissed me off.

You're letting your prejudices make you biased. Her expression is hardly relevant.

Is it some kind of sexism? That a woman should be loving and graceful, that a woman failing to coo and be deferential to the shoplifter who tried to resist her and threaten her, and to the jackals who accuse her of being a brute... that lack of deference makes you angry?!?

I see nothing wrong with her expression though I tend to have a lot less traditional ideas of women's role in society. They can and should be curt when necessary just like men can.

What has happened here is an accident. The arrest was justified, the fall so hard was not intended, that does not make the arrest unjustified.

Oh, no, no. No sexism at all. I'm a girl myself. Of course, I don't expect her to be cradling the old man while singing a lullaby, like I said before. I say 'the woman's face' because she's the one who appears on camera the most. I would have been equally upset if it would have been a guy doing the patronizing face.

You're right on the part where maybe I am being biased. I've been treated badly by cops before, people who couldn't care less about the situation I was in and only saw me as a criminal (even though I wasn't and I never will), people who have taken advantage of their position to screw me over and they always get away with it. And I don't like being biased.
With the little information we have, I cannot assure the cops were right or wrong; I can't tell if the cops were using unnecessary roughness of if it was truly an unfortunate accident. So I'll stop there.

 

[Treblaine]

Oh, no, no. No sexism at all. I'm a girl myself... I would have been equally upset if it would have been a guy doing the patronizing face.

I'll accept your explanation but just as a note: the worst and most consistent sexism I have seen if from women directed at other women. Especially how they enable and encourage sexism from men the way other oppressed groups wouldn't.

This is the reason the 19th Amendment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution] would not be passed till 50 years after the 15th Amendment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]. Women have had a raw deal in history, and as a guy THAT pisses me off. Singling out "that lady cop's face" when there were three other male cops there you actually get just as good a look at, it just SEEMS to be a part of a long pattern I've seen all my life.

And it's depressing. I admire strong confident women yet the world, men and women, seem to barely tolerate them.

But I'll accept that you just chose to single out that one female cop for non sexist reasons, as maybe it was just an unfortunate choice of words, or maybe it wasn't. There is nothing more to say, if you say there is no sexism then no where else to go.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

So...

Am I the only one wondering why the police thought that the sensible thing to do to an old man was to tackle him to the ground?

Even if he was resisting arrest, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't take that much effort to restrain an old man. If the guy was about 30 years younger, the police might have my understanding, but right now all they have from me is a lot of confusion.

 

[the_green_dragon]

U - S - A!! U - S - A!!

Seriously tho, here in Australia he hasn't stolen anything till he leaves the store without paying for it. What if he takes it to the counter and pays for it? You can't just smash a guy before he's even reached the counter. He should get some good compensation for that shit. GO AMERICA!!! ha ha ha... remember the pepper spray lady? Bloody hell.

 

[Darth_Dude]

Yet another example of the militarization of the Police in the US, this coupled with the acts of police brutality in the Occupy protests, and other incidents of brutality, leave no doubt in my mind of the USA turning into a Police State.

 

[The Lugz]

what in..
ok that settles it that's now another state i need to wear full body armour in if i ever want to visit it
'mental note 9'

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Brutality. Simple as.

Fuck these power-tripping pigs that ruin it for honest cops trying to enforce the law the right way.

 

[Epona]

Yet another example of the militarization of the Police in the US, this coupled with the acts of police brutality in the Occupy protests, and other incidents of brutality, leave no doubt in my mind of the USA turning into a Police State.

Absolutely and I can't believe people here are defending police brutality. Should people start arming themselves with mace to protect them FROM THE POLICE?

 

[FamoFunk]

You know, even if his intentions were to steal. You don't have an old man on the floor of a fucking super market covered in blood looking knocked out.

Messed up, I'd be making the police pay for my medical bills.

 

[Kopikatsu]

So...

Am I the only one wondering why the police thought that the sensible thing to do to an old man was to tackle him to the ground?

Even if he was resisting arrest, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't take that much effort to restrain an old man. If the guy was about 30 years younger, the police might have my understanding, but right now all they have from me is a lot of confusion.

They didn't tackle him. Why does everyone keep saying that? They swept his feet out from under him because he was resisting arrest. (As in, he was flailing about with a pair of handcuffs on one arm).

The fact that he landed face first is unfortunate, but the moral of the story here is 'Don't resist arrest'. Besides, the only injury he appears to have sustained is a broken nose (Supported by his being released by the hospital after less than a day). A broken nose is bloody, but it isn't a serious injury.

 

[BrionJames]

the guy didn't look like he was resisting arrest...at all. Seems like super-cop (the cop who can't be stopped) got a little over-excited. Figures, more bull shit from an aptly named Black Friday.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Oh come on it's America, the guy can be happy they didn't gun him down.

America, where bulletproof vests are a necessity.

 

[Err0rX]

I don't care if that guy was stealing a video game or not. Unless he was trying to rape or murder someone, the cops didn't need to break his face. That is a big puddle of blood on the floor at the beginning of the video.