Guatemala riots over budget, set fire to congress building over healthcare.

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Silvanus

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Maybe if they burned down all of the capital buildings they'd have had more money for socialized healthcare like in Germany
Thankfully, just the one has already spurred the government into a backtrack.
 
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tstorm823

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Indeed, fascists set a fire as a false flag attack that they blamed communists for, and used them as a scapegoat to suspend civil liberties and institute a dictatorship. It's nice to see you acknowledge that.
Of course, the Reichstag fire was quite likely set by a lone-actor itinerant communist, after which the far-right exploited the event to solidify a power grab.

Hey, maybe you're right, this is a useful analogy after all!
I love the immediate contradiction here, and yet two different users liked both posts. (To be clear, you're allowed to disagree, I'm not criticizing different takes, just the people who will like anything that defends communism regardless of truth.)

No, SupahEwok, the Reichstag fire was not a false flag attack. Silvanus is correct. And yes, it is a useful analogy. Violence inspires change. What that change is has no connection to the desires of the people employing violence. Stop advocating for violence people, it's how you get Hitler, no matter how anti-Hitler you personally feel.
 

crimson5pheonix

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I love the immediate contradiction here, and yet two different users liked both posts. (To be clear, you're allowed to disagree, I'm not criticizing different takes, just the people who will like anything that defends communism regardless of truth.)

No, SupahEwok, the Reichstag fire was not a false flag attack. Silvanus is correct. And yes, it is a useful analogy. Violence inspires change. What that change is has no connection to the desires of the people employing violence. Stop advocating for violence people, it's how you get Hitler, no matter how anti-Hitler you personally feel.
ACKSHOOALLY


It was probably a false flag burning by the Nazis.
 

Silvanus

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No, SupahEwok, the Reichstag fire was not a false flag attack. Silvanus is correct. And yes, it is a useful analogy. Violence inspires change. What that change is has no connection to the desires of the people employing violence. Stop advocating for violence people, it's how you get Hitler, no matter how anti-Hitler you personally feel.
An alternative take: stop hyper-overreacting to property damage, it's how you get Hitler.
 

Gordon_4

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ACKSHOOALLY


It was probably a false flag burning by the Nazis.
At the risk of asking a stupid question, at this point nearly 100 years after the fact, is it relevant? And most ex-Nazi’s who’d have been alive at the time are geriatrics by now so I wouldn’t be putting too much stock in their powers of recall. Either the Nazis took an opportunity fate presented or they made their own luck with the Reichstag fire. Either way the result is the same.
 

Silvanus

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And most ex-Nazi’s who’d have been alive at the time are geriatrics by now so I wouldn’t be putting too much stock in their powers of recall.
Actually, the statement is a declassified one from 1955, so he was probably not too old to recall it.
 

crimson5pheonix

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At the risk of asking a stupid question, at this point nearly 100 years after the fact, is it relevant? And most ex-Nazi’s who’d have been alive at the time are geriatrics by now so I wouldn’t be putting too much stock in their powers of recall. Either the Nazis took an opportunity fate presented or they made their own luck with the Reichstag fire. Either way the result is the same.
Well strictly that testimony was from the 50's and just got buried for half a century. And it serves as a useful demonstration between the effects of direct action and a false-flag operation. One gets Nazis, the other gets change.
 

Gordon_4

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Well strictly that testimony was from the 50's and just got buried for half a century. And it serves as a useful demonstration between the effects of direct action and a false-flag operation. One gets Nazis, the other gets change.
I don’t think the two situations are quite comparable at the moment but hey, you keep an eye on it and see if the Swastika gets a second win in Guatemala.
 

crimson5pheonix

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I don’t think the two situations are quite comparable at the moment but hey, you keep an eye on it and see if the Swastika gets a second win in Guatemala.
Sadly at the moment their electoral approach put in someone who hates abortion, gay marriage, and not having the death penalty :V
 

Seanchaidh

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An alternative take: stop hyper-overreacting to property damage, it's how you get Hitler.
Conservatives don't mind if we get Hitler, they just want no significant interruption to the current state of affairs. Hyper-overreaction to property damage and that possibly leading to Hitler is a pivotal component of their political strategy.
 

tstorm823

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It was probably a false flag burning by the Nazis.
0% chance that testimony is real. Just absolute 0%. I'm embarassed you believe that almost an entire century after the event a mysterious record magically asserting that communists do no wrong would just suddenly exist. You gotta have some healthy skepticism in your life.

Well strictly that testimony was from the 50's and just got buried for half a century. And it serves as a useful demonstration between the effects of direct action and a false-flag operation. One gets Nazis, the other gets change.
The Nazis were change. Change the communists literally asked for. The communists of the time would "prefer to see the Nazis in power than lift a finger to save the republic."
 

Dreiko

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This to me is just a show of how bad their politicians are were they actually were able to not make these cuts but they needed to have a building burnt down to find the will to actually do it.

Maybe we can give them the money it costs us to house their illegal immigrants that come over here and they can use it for healthcare or something. I do have to wonder how much of their economic difficulty is due to the fact that a ton of their more industrious citizens jumped ship. When there's a large enough of a talent leak, eventually you will really end up unable to pay for healthcare. If we don't want this and worse to repeat itself we wanna disincenitivize their citizens from leaving.
 

crimson5pheonix

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0% chance that testimony is real. Just absolute 0%. I'm embarassed you believe that almost an entire century after the event a mysterious record magically asserting that communists do no wrong would just suddenly exist. You gotta have some healthy skepticism in your life.


The Nazis were change. Change the communists literally asked for. The communists of the time would "prefer to see the Nazis in power than lift a finger to save the republic."
I don't know, it seems pretty credible. This isn't the first hole poked in the idea.
 
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Revnak

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0% chance that testimony is real. Just absolute 0%. I'm embarassed you believe that almost an entire century after the event a mysterious record magically asserting that communists do no wrong would just suddenly exist. You gotta have some healthy skepticism in your life.


The Nazis were change. Change the communists literally asked for. The communists of the time would "prefer to see the Nazis in power than lift a finger to save the republic."
Wut. The Nazis were literally revaunchists who sold themselves on a return to the glories of the German Empire. They were specifically opposed to all the change going on during the interwar. Also, the one time there was any semblance of collaboration between the KDP and the Nazis was when the SDP (who I have zero doubt you would’ve opposed as well, same with the policy I’m about to mention) were pushing for a ban to militias and armed political groups (which the SDP also had one of). This is ahistorical nonsense invented to fit your pre-existing fantasies of why all change is bad because you got scared over *insert purely aesthetic culture change y*.
 

tstorm823

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I don't know, it seems pretty credible.
So if I told you the historians that are experts on that specific event dispute the testimony, and that the man who made the testimony was taken in for psychiatric help because he was paranoid, and that his brother was responsible for keeping the testimony hidden believing him to be a compulsive liar, which matches up with stories of the man claiming multiple times to have witnessed murders that he didn't, and that this same guy claims that everyone else but him who was involved in the frame job got assassinated, would that make it seem less credible?
 

crimson5pheonix

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So if I told you the historians that are experts on that specific event dispute the testimony, and that the man who made the testimony was taken in for psychiatric help because he was paranoid, and that his brother was responsible for keeping the testimony hidden believing him to be a compulsive liar, which matches up with stories of the man claiming multiple times to have witnessed murders that he didn't, and that this same guy claims that everyone else but him who was involved in the frame job got assassinated, would that make it seem less credible?
And if I said before that came up there was already archival evidence showing it was far more likely to be started by a bunch of Nazis instead of a lone patsy?