Gun advocate mocks Australia's tough laws

[RicoADF]

*SNIP*
Ahh, okay. I did kinda go "ohhh dear" when I saw you mentioned you needed a 'genuine reason', but looking through that list... it doesn't seem that bad at all still. Seems relatively reasonable, even.

Yeah, I don't see why people here keep ripping on Australia's laws at all. They seem pretty alright.

Yep, now you see why I shake my head and think how silly people like the gun advocate in the video are for saying crap about Australia they literally have no idea about, they've just assumed or heard hearsay. Same goes for videogames and media laws, people keep saying we're so censored etc etc, yet when you live hear you never notice and when you look into it theres next to no difference. People just talk crap based on what they've heard and not actually done real research.

 

[pearcinator]

Wow...after watching this and then just now hearing about shootings in Sydney I am confused.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-27/police-sick-and-tired-of-sydney-gun-violence/4654970

But of course the facts speak for itself...gun control laws drastically reduce gun violence. The above scene probably wouldn't even make it on the news in America.

 

[HellbirdIV]

I'm tired too of people trying to compare statistics of the United States to their country. If we gave you Detroit, Chicago and DC, you'd look like a violent madhouse too.

I live in Detroit area and our murder rate is comparable to Somalia. This does not reflect the majority of the United States, but it does throw the stats off quite a bit when you take all the ghettos we have and add them in to the national average.

Which would suggest that the problem is not guns, it's too many poor people with too much drugs with too little to live for and very little respect for life, packed much too closely together. You're gonna have a bad time.

Guns aren't the root of the problem but they certainly make violent crime a lot easier to commit.

I believe the point has been made that Canada has more guns per capita than America (but don't quote me on that, because it's been years since I saw any data on that) but far less gun crime, and to me that implies the problem is in American gun culture - the idolization of the gun, praising it as a TOOL OF LIBERTY to the point where it's like a religious icon might have more to do with the actual gun crime rates.

As for the violent crime rate in America in general, maybe if you had better social programmes to support the poor you would see a significant decrease, instead of chasing the pipe-dream of having a capitalist utopia where all your money goes to yourself and fuck everyone else...

Sorry. Rant over. I've just grown very tired of American conservative views.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I believe the point has been made that Canada has more guns per capita than America (but don't quote me on that, because it's been years since I saw any data on that)

I think it was Michael Moore who said that, and he was either lying or did not do the research. Or both.

 

[MagunBFP]

As I pointed out in another thread, Australia is more urbanized (89%) then the US (82%).

Why do you keep arguing a point that has been shown to be false?

Why do you keep shoveling a stat that has no relevance as to how many major metro areas Australia has? An urbanization rate does not translate into how many large, dense, poor, drug-addled cities a country has. So you can keep right on going and I'll be over here ignoring you.

You make an interesting point, although it does seem that like Mr Van Cleave you're arguing that because something isn't 100% effective its better to do nothing.

If you say the gun violence is linked to the poverty, drugs and over crowding then logically to stop the gun violence you can either: remove the guns, reduce the poverty, take away the drugs or spread out the population. Given that forced relocations are frowned upon, drugs are already illegal, and the government can't afford to pay everyone enough to keep them above the poverty line (which would actually rise as more people had more money redefining exactly how poor poverty is) then the reasonable action is to take away everyones pointy sticks until they learn to play nicely.

Australia does have alot less people then the US, there's no argueing with that, but going from 1 mass shooting every year for almost 2 decades to... 0 mass shootings in the following 2 decades, even if its not as successful when implemented in America thats going to have an impact. Take into account that most of the guys committing the mass shootings weren't criminals until they pulled the trigger (in otherwords they obeyed the law and would reasonably be expected to comply with bans and background checks, until they snapped), restricting their access would quite probably either impacted their lethality or stopped them completely

 

[Sindwiller]

No but really, I sort of agree with Mr. Van Cleave. Switzerland has a massive level of gun ownership because the vast majority of people undergo compulsory military training and can keep their guns afterwards. Not quite the same percentages as the USA, but drastically lower gun crime. Which means basically that there are countries with both attitudes towards guns that manage to be fairly peaceful. The difference is that people are less sensible with them in the US than they are in Switzerland.

Except that you're not allowed to take ammunition home with you and you're not allowed to keep your rifle after finishing your official duties unless you own a license. Also, with the dwindling numbers of Swiss men who actually do military service instead of, say, civil service, civil protection or get two 'unfit' stamps in their file, I'd say that argument is slowly becoming irrelevant. It is true, however, that shooting sports and hunting aren't regarded very highly in Switzerland (if you ignore biathlon - does not count for really rural regions, where hardly anyone lives though). I for one know nobody who actually owns a gun here in Zurich, allegedly the city with the highest crime rate in Switzerland.

 

[WolfThomas]

Even then, I still need the gun, because the crows, foxes, and coyotes arent going to care about the fancy pants new locks or the "Brinks Home Security Protection." sign in my front yard.

In Australia you'd be able to own a gun for that purpose. A shotgun (double barrel or lever), a rimfire or a centrefire rifle (lever, bolt or pump action). That's all underneath a Cat A+B license which anyone people without criminal or psychiatric history can get. All you need is to register that you're interested in killing pest animals (which there are a lot of) and do a ridiculously easy safety course which is a waste of three hours but kind of necessary because some of the people I saw there I wouldn't trust with a gun right away.

And somehow if those didn't satisfy your purposes, say you've got a huge farm. You can apply for a semi-automatic rifle and/or a pump action shotgun, which is Cat C.

 

[Tarcolt]

It wouldn't work, simply the change in culture would be too rapid.
If America wants to tighten there gun laws(They really should if only a little) it needs to happen gradually.
Australia's gun laws work because the attitude of its population allows it to.

I take exception to Australia being described as another planet.

The comfortably racist thing is true, and I take pride in it, we have a very dynamically multicultural society, if we weren't comfortable in or prejudice then it would be violence all over, and maybe then the gun laws wouldn't be so effective...

 

[tipp6353]

Why can't we accept the fact that as long as people are living on the earth they are always going to find ways to kill each other...A gun is a tool as is a bat knife or as we have all seen a pressure cooker, are we going to start banning said items just because they can kill people.

 

[Vegosiux]

Why can't we accept the fact that as long as people are living on the earth they are always going to find ways to kill each other...A gun is a tool as is a bat knife or as we have all seen a pressure cooker, are we going to start banning said items just because they can kill people.

The moment you can kill someone as effectively with a pressure cooker or your bare hands as with a firearm is the moment you can start comparing them.

But yeah, the librulz are commin' ta git yer gunz so that they can...I dunno, oppress you and make you hug trees three years from now, or something.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Australia's murder rate has not changed substantially since the gun ban went into place. In fact it went up after the ban and then went back down later to barely below pre-ban conditions. So who cares how people are being murdered? Your changing gun laws haven't done anything.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Just watch out for them drop bears and baby snatching Dingos. You guys don't need guns to find a gruesome death when every animal on the landmass is trying to kill or poison you.

 

[antigodoflife]

Just a koala.........JUST A KOLA you poor poor naive fool they are nothing alike:

Spoiler: NSFW contains pic of dead carcass

And the worse thing is they hit you when you least expect it causing savage wounds:

Spoiler: NSFW drop bear attack injuries

I think the worst part about those pictures is knowing that Koala's are herbivores, that carnage is simply because they can.

 

[psijac]

Australia Also has a a rape rate 3 times higher than the U.S. Japan has next to nothing in gun crime but is near the very top when it comes to suicides rates. You might as well say the Ban on adult only games has lead to a reduction in massacures

 

[wulf3n]

Australia Also has a a rape rate 3 times higher than the U.S. Japan has next to nothing in gun crime but is near the very top when it comes to suicides rates. You might as well say the Ban on adult only games has lead to a reduction in massacures

Not quite. Australia has 3 times the number of sexual assaults as America has rapes.

Australia [http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/sexual%20assault.html]

America [http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0314.pdf]


I couldn't find the statistics for sexual assault rates america so I can't do an exact comparison.

The difference being that Rape is a part of Sexual Assault, but not all Sexual Assaults are Rape.

Australia's murder rate has not changed substantially since the gun ban went into place. In fact it went up after the ban and then went back down later to barely below pre-ban conditions. So who cares how people are being murdered? Your changing gun laws haven't done anything.

Homicide has decreased by around 20% since 96 with homicides involving firearms decreasing by nearly 50%

Source [http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html]

 

[Thaluikhain]

Australia Also has a a rape rate 3 times higher than the U.S. Japan has next to nothing in gun crime but is near the very top when it comes to suicides rates. You might as well say the Ban on adult only games has lead to a reduction in massacures

Not quite. Australia has 3 times the number of sexual assaults as America has rapes.

Australia [http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/sexual%20assault.html]

America [http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0314.pdf]


I couldn't find the statistics for sexual assault rates america so I can't do an exact comparison.

The difference being that Rape is a part of Sexual Assault, but not all Sexual Assaults are Rape.

Australia's murder rate has not changed substantially since the gun ban went into place. In fact it went up after the ban and then went back down later to barely below pre-ban conditions. So who cares how people are being murdered? Your changing gun laws haven't done anything.

Homicide has decreased by around 20% since 96 with homicides involving firearms decreasing by nearly 50%

Source [http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html]

Not to mention, decrease in suicides using firearms without increasing use of other methods.

 

[android88]

HOW DARE HE INSULT MY COUNTRY!!! Why he makes me so mad I could... Ignore him. I won't deny we have issues as a country but one thing we did get right is gun control. Also that racism comment sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Even then, I still need the gun, because the crows, foxes, and coyotes arent going to care about the fancy pants new locks or the "Brinks Home Security Protection." sign in my front yard.

In Australia you'd be able to own a gun for that purpose. A shotgun (double barrel or lever), a rimfire or a centrefire rifle (lever, bolt or pump action). That's all underneath a Cat A+B license which anyone people without criminal or psychiatric history can get. All you need is to register that you're interested in killing pest animals (which there are a lot of) and do a ridiculously easy safety course which is a waste of three hours but kind of necessary because some of the people I saw there I wouldn't trust with a gun right away.

And somehow if those didn't satisfy your purposes, say you've got a huge farm. You can apply for a semi-automatic rifle and/or a pump action shotgun, which is Cat C.

Off topic concerning the bolded bit: Pump action shotguns are the in the same class as semi-auto rifles.........why...why is a pump action shotgun in the same class as a semi-auto rifle. It makes litteraly no sense..........excuse me, my brain hurts.........

*15 minutes later*

On Topic: So, would I not be allowed to have a gun because I have Aspergers Syndrome, even though I have never hurt anyone? Or if I have grown up my whole life and was taught how to shoot since I could life the gun, would I still need to take that class? See, this is why I like the laws here in Kansas. I already know the answer to those questions. And they are "Yes." and "Of course, because no one needs classes or permits to have a gun." Plus, you can own any type of gun. Semi-auto, full auto, tanks, etc. And there is a noteable lack of killing sprees here dispite all that. I will take how we have it here thank you.