Guns are Good

[Not Matt]

am i the only one who is getting fed up with all the gun threads on the escapist?

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[Tropicaz]

Surely by that logic the UK should be rife with axe murderers? Since we dont have guns and all.. I sense this post is a troll so I'll be on my way

 

[Karathos]

am i the only one who is getting fed up with all the gun threads on the escapist?

Am I the only one getting fed up with people on the internet, in the middle of millions of users, asking if they're the only one?

Firearms aren't going to go away. Laws only work if everyone respect them, and do you think a bullied kid, an enraged ex, a robber or a mugger is going to go "Hmm, y'know... this is illegal."

You can limit them, of course, but it won't limit violence. People who want to kill other people will always find a way.

 

[Thyunda]

YES! I finally get a chance to use this

I am not biting this time. Instead, I'm going to post a nice, relaxing song to cool everyone's heads.

[youtube]S5IEt63qOSI&NR=1[/youtube]

Or I would do if this blasted thing would work.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

"BREAKING NEWS"
A 17 year student Dan Simon used a Ax and cut up 6 kids in his class room he was trying to get back at the kids who bullied him and since no guns were used we have body parts all over the floor it was a horrible event... "
next thing you know you'll get people protesting and getting rid of every sharp object they have.

see my point?

Provably wrong.

When a crazy person goes on a killing spree with a gun, dozens die.

When a crazy person goes on a killing spree with a melee weapon, MAYBE one or two die, several are injured. Usually several are injured but survive.

Melee weapons do less damage, less quickly, and are easier to disarm from an assailant.

Guns kill faster than melee weapons - much faster, from much further away. That's what guns are FOR. That's why guns replaced bows and swords as the war weapon of choice.

NOW... that said, I don't believe in full gun control. I don't want to take anyone's guns away.

I do believe that a gun should be just as difficult to get as a Car, however. Cars kill people too, so we have a long, difficult process to get one. Gun licenses should be just as hard to get as Drivers Licenses. Guns should also require insurance like Cars.

Just making guns as hard to get as Cars would help keep them out of the hands of minor crazies. Not criminals - black market sucks that way - but random teenagers would be a start. And, to be fair, criminals don't do school shootings - random teenagers do school shootings.

 

[Kukakkau]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

...What? "guns are necessary" - if you meant armed forces or jobs which require them then you can ignore the following

You're right I totally need a gun to go to work, eat food I buy from a supermarket, wake up every morning and spend time with people. Without a gun how would I go about my basic life?

There is too little need for a gun in the average life to warrant gun laws. If the weren't legal in countries like America...why would you need one? It's a vicious cycle - someone could own a gun and make me feel threatened... better get one myself.

You could say "well it's the second amendment, we're allowed to own guns", yeah for the sake of a MILITIA for homeland security, not your own personal use

 

[Dangit2019]

Spoiler

Why I'm in support of guns staying legalized (albeit put under safer restrictions to keep them out of the hands of crazy people), your argument was so full of fallacies and slippery slope examples that I felt a bit conflicted on how to respond. Also, that kind of went into a media-tangent near the end, which was kind of weird.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But the penis is bad? Cause the gun shoots death but the penis shoots life? Or something?

(Semi)Automatic weapons are banned here and not only have we not had an axe massacre since they were banned, we haven't had a massacre fullstop. Obviously it would not be as simple in the US purely for the sheer volume of firearms owned by you people, but the point stands. You can blame people and mental illness all you like but at the end of the day if you hand a tradie a hammer, some nails and wood, he can probably build you a nice shelf; hand a crazy person a gun? He will probably kill people.

Also, when Australia banned assault weapons and put toucher restrictions on all firearms we did not descend into anarchy and the earth continued to revolve around the sun. Just saying.

Actually, no, semi-automatic weapons are legally available to civilians in Australia, provided they have the correct licence, which is very difficult to get, and you need to renew them every 6 or 12 months. And then you have to find someone to sell you their weapon, because they aren't really imported.

Australian law doesn't recognise the assault weapon as a definition, there's semi-auto rimfire rifle with =10 rounds magazine), which is Category D.

I don't know what you'd want a Category C rifle for, personally.

 

[Not Matt]

Am I the only one getting fed up with people on the internet, in the middle of millions of users, asking if they're the only one?

Well that's because the person feel like he or she is the only one when they are being buried in a sea of. In this example. Gun talk.

Firearms aren't going to go away. Laws only work if everyone respect them, and do you think a bullied kid, an enraged ex, a robber or a mugger is going to go "Hmm, y'know... this is illegal."

You can limit them, of course, but it won't limit violence. People who want to kill other people will always find a way.

Yes. There is nobody disagreeing with that. Sadly people will still try to find ways to kill. But if we can ban or limit the tools then we can put up stoppers for them and there's a bigger chance they'll give up and go do something better with their life. And that's atleast a step in the right direction

 

[MrGalactus]

its not the GUNS its the PEOPLE!

Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
Cameras don't take pictures, pictures take pictures!
Toasters don't toast toast, toast toasts toast!

Look, you can say kids'll hack other kids to death with an axe, but it's along the same reasoning lines as the argument that was made about that football player who killed himself and his girlfriend, that said he could have also strangled her, then hung himself. The problem is, choking or chopping someone to death takes either years of abuse, or a seriously unhealthy mind. For someone to shoot someone dead takes one muscle and a bad year, week, or day maybe. There's an efficient disconnect between the killer and the victim that only guns create.
Guns instantly give their owners power over whether the people around them live or die, and a lot of people can't handle that power without using it. A depressed high school student who had a shitty week would have a pretty tough time on a stabbing spree against his or her bullies, but a pistol or rifle lying around the house would make short work of a classroom.

 

[Yopaz]

EDIT omgosh you know what pay no mind to this I throw out these curve ball topics because no one talks about them its all either " what do you think about dantes new hair" or " how many girls have you dated the past 10 years" you know...stupid crap!

Blatant lie right there.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.398738-Poll-american-only-gun-poll
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.398559-Poll-Lets-pretend-the-government-passes-a-law-stating-that-you-cant-have-a-gun-anymore
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.398396-People-should-stop-protecting-guns

This is just some of the threads discussing guns posted in the last couple of weeks. There are a lot for game discussions here too, but you know, this is a gaming site. Now you can pretend that no-one discuss these things and that you're a hero for finally making us discuss something important, but one of the threads I linked to is currently on page 15.

Now people complain about the lengthy rant riddled with TERRIBLE spelling and grammar, but also because this is the millionth time the subject is discussed. Now some helpful advice for you would be to make your posts shorter and more coherent. Every point you're trying to make is lost along the way.

Also guns aren't the cause for violence, there's work to be done besides making gun laws safer. Both in mental health, changes in school systems, economic structure and social services. However you can mention one incident where 6 people were slaughtered with an axe. I can mention one incident where 67 persons were shot to death in open landscape. 6 people were killed in a secluded class room, but on an island such as the incident I mention he'd have to work hard to get more than 2 or 3. A semi automatic rifle yielded 72 victims.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

...What? "guns are necessary" - if you meant armed forces or jobs which require them then you can ignore the following

You're right I totally need a gun to go to work, eat food I buy from a supermarket, wake up every morning and spend time with people. Without a gun how would I go about my basic life?

There is too little need for a gun in the average life to warrant gun laws. If the weren't legal in countries like America...why would you need one? It's a vicious cycle - someone could own a gun and make me feel threatened... better get one myself.

You could say "well it's the second amendment, we're allowed to own guns", yeah for the sake of a MILITIA for homeland security, not your own personal use

Your snarky comment aside, would you say civilians do not need guns then? Define "personal use" then? You read too much into the necessary part and ignored missed the point of my post. Reread it as a whole, then ask yourself the need to label guns as good or bad? As what you almost did...

 

[Arfonious]

While a knife, axe, crowbar, cat or kitchen sink may be used for killing people, they have other purposes.

A gun was designed to be a weapon to kill and makes killing easier.


Also the second amendment is riddiculusly outdated

 

[Kukakkau]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

...What? "guns are necessary" - if you meant armed forces or jobs which require them then you can ignore the following

You're right I totally need a gun to go to work, eat food I buy from a supermarket, wake up every morning and spend time with people. Without a gun how would I go about my basic life?

There is too little need for a gun in the average life to warrant gun laws. If the weren't legal in countries like America...why would you need one? It's a vicious cycle - someone could own a gun and make me feel threatened... better get one myself.

You could say "well it's the second amendment, we're allowed to own guns", yeah for the sake of a MILITIA for homeland security, not your own personal use

Your snarky comment aside, would you say civilians do not need guns then? Define "personal use" then? You read too much into the necessary part and ignored missed the point of my post. Reread it as a whole, then ask yourself the need to label guns as good or bad? As what you almost did...

No civilians do not need guns, unless there job specifically requires them (farmer, ghillie, things like that). Or you live so far from society you need to hunt for your food to live. Do you yourself find a need for a gun in your daily life? Something tells me the answer is no.

Personal use? Possession of it to protect yourself when you don't need it? Having it sit in a drawer because you can? Unless you're part of a certified group such as a militia/career it's personal possession. Which is what the 2nd ammendment is MEANT to be for, but screw it lets just skew it's meaning so everyone can have one.

You said guns were neither good or bad, okay nukes and bio weapons aren't good or bad. They are weapons too. Let's give them to the general public? Actually since you can get guns without training too should we give out knifes at school assemblies? They have the right too

You say I read too much into it? How? The US is practically the only country to have these large scale gun massacres and so frequently. But it's not because they allow next to anyone to have guns, no sir. I mean no country without gun laws can manage..oh wait many can.

The only plausible reason for a civilian to need a gun is...to protect themselves from guns. Yes people die from knives and axes etc but how much harder do you think it is to do that and get away with it. You lack any range, the chance to be subtle and get away without people seeing your face. Someone breaks into your house? Well you know where everything that can be used as a weapon for defence is kept (kitchen knives, bats, clubs, weights)

And yes my post was snarky - you posted 2 lines of statements with no reasoning for them and I can't help but notice others have quoted you doing the same.

 

[CaptainKoala]

Did you just have an argument with yourself?

"BREAKING NEWS"

A 17 year student Dan Simon used a Ax and cut up 6 kids in his class room he was trying to get back at the kids who bullied him and since no guns were used we have body parts all over the floor it was a horrible event... "
next thing you know you'll get people protesting and getting rid of every sharp object they have.

see my point?

Yeah, this is your point . . .

While normally I'd agree with the fallacy of the slippery slope argument, on this topic I must say it makes sense.

This isn't so much conveyed in OP's post, but in general you can effectively argue the slippery slope with gun control. The argument being: If you set a precedent that the government can ban things because of how they can be misused,, there's no reason to stop at guns.

[link]https://www.google.com/search?q=united+kingdom+knife+control&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a[/link]

You can do a quick Google search and see how this is already happening. This also shows that violent crime isn't exclusive to the availability of guns, which may seem obvious, but if everyone accepted this as fact there would be no gun control legislation being proposed in the US right now. If someone is determined enough to hurt themselves or someone else, to the extent where they are acting on it, the fact that they don't have a gun available to them isn't going to stop them.

 

[Coffeejack]

Hmmm.

I think the obvious flaw in your argument here is that it's a lot harder (and slower) to kill someone with an axe than a gun. You almost certainly wouldn't have as high death tolls without guns because you can't stab someone at a distance.

It tires the arm out more, too. That, coupled with the pained screaming, means a good deal fewer bodies before armed officers are alerted and make their arrival. Guns are inherently designed for the purpose of killing people and, as a result, are exceedingly efficient at it. The police could stand to have their job made easier by reducing the number of guns in circulation. Nobody needs an assault rifle. I'd like some marijuana and a gold-plated roof, but I don't need it.

So yeah, well said. I agree.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

...What? "guns are necessary" - if you meant armed forces or jobs which require them then you can ignore the following

You're right I totally need a gun to go to work, eat food I buy from a supermarket, wake up every morning and spend time with people. Without a gun how would I go about my basic life?

There is too little need for a gun in the average life to warrant gun laws. If the weren't legal in countries like America...why would you need one? It's a vicious cycle - someone could own a gun and make me feel threatened... better get one myself.

You could say "well it's the second amendment, we're allowed to own guns", yeah for the sake of a MILITIA for homeland security, not your own personal use

Your snarky comment aside, would you say civilians do not need guns then? Define "personal use" then? You read too much into the necessary part and ignored missed the point of my post. Reread it as a whole, then ask yourself the need to label guns as good or bad? As what you almost did...

No civilians do not need guns, unless there job specifically requires them (farmer, ghillie, things like that). Or you live so far from society you need to hunt for your food to live. Do you yourself find a need for a gun in your daily life? Something tells me the answer is no.

Personal use? Possession of it to protect yourself when you don't need it? Having it sit in a drawer because you can? Unless you're part of a certified group such as a militia/career it's personal possession. Which is what the 2nd ammendment is MEANT to be for, but screw it lets just skew it's meaning so everyone can have one.

You said guns were neither good or bad, okay nukes and bio weapons aren't good or bad. They are weapons too. Let's give them to the general public? Actually since you can get guns without training too should we give out knifes at school assemblies? They have the right too

You say I read too much into it? How? The US is practically the only country to have these large scale gun massacres and so frequently. But it's not because they allow next to anyone to have guns, no sir. I mean no country without gun laws can manage..oh wait many can.

The only plausible reason for a civilian to need a gun is...to protect themselves from guns. Yes people die from knives and axes etc but how much harder do you think it is to do that and get away with it. You lack any range, the chance to be subtle and get away without people seeing your face. Someone breaks into your house? Well you know where everything that can be used as a weapon for defence is kept (kitchen knives, bats, clubs, weights)

And yes my post was snarky - you posted 2 lines of statements with no reasoning for them and I can't help but notice others have quoted you doing the same.

Fair enough with the snarkyness.

Anyways please don't bring nukes and bioweapons in to this, they are not meant to be handled by people period. Guns are, the saying guns don't shoot people, people shoot people rings true. A person buys a gun, whether or not that gun is used for a crime or defense, is strictly up to that person. More rigorous training doesn't change that responsibility.

Your giving out knives assembly example makes no sense, I'm talking about the stupid misconception that guns are bad and good, why are you bringing up something like that. Please elaborate.

Guns are meant to neutralize with as little time as possible. Do you know what separates a gun from all things like kitchen knives, weights, etc. It doesn't require particular skill to operate. Are you seriously implying that if somebody breaks into a house the intruder and you are on equal playing fields. Let me give you an example. If the intruder is a muscular man with one or two friends, are you actually going to run into your kitchen and go into close quarters combat with them. Even if you are that bull headed, what if the person being invaded is somebody weaker than the average male, like a female with no training of any sort, or an elderly person. A gun really does help in that situation.

 

[HellbirdIV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOROvO2fxTc

This is what I thought of when I saw the thread title. Hard to take it seriously after that.