Guns are Good

[slypizza]

okay now how can I start this off...

shooters of these schools are the real victims!

" what the hell are you talking about kids died- " blah blah blah blah look people its not the guns okay you can give a mental idiot a handgun and thats 6 kids right there okay?

I'm getting really fed up with theses talks of "giving up guns" okay thats not going to stop the violence
lets pretend guns are banned forever. guess what a year from now you'll hear


"BREAKING NEWS"

A 17 year student Dan Simon used a Ax and cut up 6 kids in his class room he was trying to get back at the kids who bullied him and since no guns were used we have body parts all over the floor it was a horrible event... "
next thing you know you'll get people protesting and getting rid of every sharp object they have.

see my point?

its not the GUNS its the PEOPLE! these people are constantly messed with and have no outlet for there frustration and don't give me that " well we talked to his friends Dora said he was feeling alittle down but she didn't think he do this " bulls@$@ if your friends with that person you need to take them seriously, really stick to them like glue so they can feel secure , there hurt, scared, want someone close , someone to defend them against these assho*** in schools, strenght in numbers people! if these metal break downs waiting to happen had someone by there side maybe we wouldn't have these shootings in the first place.

even the brain dead teachers don't do anything to me in the last few months even all last year teachers seem to be either pedos or child molesters and or having under aged sex, and to me in job interviews no one notices this?

" hello, what makes you think you'll be good for teaching the children of our next generation "

"uhh well... I have a loving passion for the children eheh "

" great your hired! "

yeah.. if the people interviewing this idiots were more aware of a persons behavior maybe we wouldn't have this problem.

but really I don't blame the teachers as much as I do blame the shooters friends, or family, how the F$$$ did you not see this taking place, this is the main problem with everyone no one wants to take a stand against anyone, everyone thinks there helpless without a gun or some kind of backing order.. reality check people when guns didn't exist what did we do? beat each other with sticks or fist fights YOU have other means of fighting don't be such a pussy and fight back! you can't carry a gun to protect yourself but the school won't get on you for carrying a damn baseball bat protect yourself by any means just not with a gun, a group comes at you just start swing rapidly let them fall over with broken hips and shins and clam it was self defense or better yet a tazzer one shock and they'll be on there knees crying.

" but then you'll get suspended " yeah but at least no one got killed! you have a right to protect yourself! you have a right to fight back against others that are trying to hurt you!, but if your life is NOT in danger do NOT kill alright!

so anyone out there in schools who may be suffering from these problems just carry a baseball bat do a few practice swings outside the school gate and I guarantee people will not mess with you

and for those who see friends acting alittle bit off then normal or see them being teased or bullied BE a Damn friend and Defend them this goes or women too I don't care how weak you think you are, I don't care how old that person is you back your friends up! okay! remember if no one is not by you when you need it the most there not your friend. just an acquaintance.

and shifting gears for a moment

I think we can all agree we've sick of the media telling us games caused the shooting as well
so I don't need to get steamed about that but have you noticed, no one blames the media

24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year nonstop media of rape, murder, theft, killings etc these things are broadcasted on a daily bases TV, Radio,computer,newspaper everywhere you look but no lets not point fingers at them lets blame video games, something that is not real.

but all honesty though my theory theirs too much money involved to blame the media we cant shut them down god forbid we need the news what would be the world without news,
you know what ...

news is politics
news is weird weather changes
news is hearing that some doubebag store owner wanted to raise prices in the meat market to pay off his car insurance

this is news but no we all know the deal everyone wants ratings for there show but wait if your looking for ratings that means you need to boost something exciting that will get people to watch... hmm so what would be so exciting that it would get people to come to our station day after day night after night for years?

needless to say

EDIT omgosh you know what pay no mind to this I throw out these curve ball topics because no one talks about them its all either " what do you think about dantes new hair" or " how many girls have you dated the past 10 years" you know...stupid crap!

then I try to post something interesting most of you can't get past my spelling or just plain nit pick my topic of choice well you know whatever done here, ever wonder why Yahtzee calls everyone a retard or idiots or every other mean thing its because dealing with idiots all day will do that to you so go on to the next topic someone posted about another shooting somewhere... people

 

[Hagi]

Don't know about you but if I had to pick between the crazy Ax killer and the crazy gunman I'd pick the former.

Good luck to him/her chasing me whilst carrying around that thing, I'll be two streets over heading towards the nearest police station with all my guts still intact.

Against a gunman... well... I'm probably screwed.

 

[shrekfan246]

Why did you make this thread.

No, I don't actually want to know.

I don't think anyone is blaming the guns for what screwed-up people do with them. It's just that people make a false equivalency that stricter gun laws = less guns = less violence. Which disregards people who would find alternative weapons, and all of the people who aren't using legal guns to begin with. Also, some crazy people can be startlingly adept at hiding their crazy.

As for whatever else you've said in your post, it's far too rambly for me to make out, I can't tell if you're defending or demonizing the people who snap, and you go on a non-sequitur about media pushing forward an agenda, which is pretty obvious to anyone who's given a passing glance at Fox News.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Hmmm.

I think the obvious flaw in your argument here is that it's a lot harder (and slower) to kill someone with an axe than a gun. You almost certainly wouldn't have as high death tolls without guns because you can't stab someone at a distance.

 

[Dead Seerius]

Don't quite know where all the 'BANNING OUR GUNZ!!' outcry is coming from lately.

RESTRICTING is the word we're looking at here. Not banning entirely. You honestly think I need a fully-automatic combat assault rifle for... anything? Nope? Well then we have an accord! Will violence cease to exist? Not at all, but hopefully the scale and frequency of such tragedies can be hampered by taking certain measures with gun distribution.

And I think most people on these forums are intelligent enough to know it's the person, and not necessarily the gun that causes the deaths. It would be downright hypocritical to suggest such a thing for all the 'games are not the cause' professing that goes on here.

 

[DoPo]

I don't think anyone is blaming the guns for what screwed-up people do with them. It's just that people make a false equivalency that stricter gun laws = less guns = less violence. Which disregards people who would find alternative weapons

I think the chain of logic is more like - less gins = if people do find other weapons, they would be easier to defend from. At least that's how I always got it.

Why did you make this thread.

No, I don't actually want to know.

But yeah, mostly this. Who looks at the Escapist and goes "You know what the forums here need? More threads about guns!" what's the thought process that results with that conclusion, I wander?

EDIT: I just answered myself. I looked at the name of the OP...yeah - it's the guy that brings us controversial threads every once in a while, like Why all the hate [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.397636-why-the-hate] or everything is not SEXY [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.397994-everything-is-not-SEXY].

Move along people, nothing new to see here.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I'm getting really fed up with theses talks of "giving up guns" okay thats not going to stop the violence
lets pretend guns are banned forever. guess what a year from now you'll hear


"BREAKING NEWS"

A 17 year student Dan Simon used a Ax and cut up 6 kids in his class room he was trying to get back at the kids who bullied him and since no guns were used we have body parts all over the floor it was a horrible event... "
next thing you know you'll get people protesting and getting rid of every sharp object they have.

see my point?

No. We dont see that here in England. Its totally false that this will happen since it doesnt anywhere with illegal guns. Sorry. You have WAY more mass killings per capita.

That said i think guns are neutral. Its good we dont have them here in England. Its good you guys hang on to them for now. You need guns to defend from illegal guns. As an Island with a small gun culture we dont need them to defend from illegal guns since its damn hard here in England. Not so in America.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Did we really need a bazillionth gun thread?

EDIT: I just answered myself. I looked at the name of the OP...yeah - it's the guy that brings us controversial threads every once in a while, like Why all the hate [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.397636-why-the-hate] or everything is not SEXY [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.397994-everything-is-not-SEXY].

Move along people, nothing new to see here.

I did have an actual response to this, but given as you've shown it seems to be controversy for controversy's sake I won't bother with it. At least it means I don't have to type nearly as much =P

 

[generals3]

Snip

1) I see a crazy guy with an axe: i start yelling help and run away. Unless he's a marathon runner i win. I see a gunman, oh look he saw me *bam* i'm dead. Well that was fun? See: range matters. And not everyone can throw axes like in videogames or movies and if they were to throw their axes they'd be disarmed and easy to subdue.
Regardless of how you twist it Guns are much more dangerous than other "weapons".

2) In case you didn't know the mother was killed in the Newtown rampage. She probably tried to stop him and he didn't like it so he killed her. (i may be wrong here, i don't have a lot on info on how she died but that's my guess)

 

[Hero in a half shell]

You are superficially right in that there is another huge correlatory influence to school shootings that isn't guns: Mental health. This doesn't absolve the blame that has been attributed to the ease of gun access America has, but it does hint that there is more than just one factor at play here.

but really I don't blame the teachers as much as I do blame the shooters friends, or family, how the F$$$ did you not see this taking place, this is the main problem with everyone no one wants to take a stand against anyone,

The thing is that people do notice the deteriorated mental state of their family and friends, and these people have gone for help in the past, most school shooters were suffering from some sort of depression and an unignorable huge number were on anti-depressant drugs:

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

Everyone seems to be ignoring this to blame guns, videogames and lack of guns. They shouldn't.

The highest cause of death among 18-30 year old Caucasian males is suicide. Something is badly wrong with our society, and it's not centred around the media, videogames, or guns; it's our mental health, and when Obama is announcing all this research and legal amendments if we overlook mental health issues then this will just happen again and again and again.

 

[Queen Michael]

This is the third time you've posted a long rant with poor grammar, punctuation and spelling.
Please, check your grammar, punctuation and spelling next time. Having to read something that poorly written is a pain.

 

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

(Semi)Automatic weapons are banned here and not only have we not had an axe massacre since they were banned, we haven't had a massacre fullstop. Obviously it would not be as simple in the US purely for the sheer volume of firearms owned by you people, but the point stands. You can blame people and mental illness all you like but at the end of the day if you hand a tradie a hammer, some nails and wood, he can probably build you a nice shelf; hand a crazy person a gun? He will probably kill people.

Also, when Australia banned assault weapons and put toucher restrictions on all firearms we did not descend into anarchy and the earth continued to revolve around the sun. Just saying.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

The highest cause of death among 18-30 year old Caucasian males is suicide. Something is badly wrong with our society, and it's not centred around the media, videogames, or guns; it's our mental health, and when Obama is announcing all this research and legal amendments if we overlook mental health issues then this will just happen again and again and again.

No its not? I mean i agree with you in principle but when i read this i was appalled. Was it REALLY THIS BAD?! I was shocked. Thankfully its lower than 51%.

Its 12% from the age 15-24 and 10% from the age 25 to 44.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus10.pdf

Still DAMN high though. The important thing ISNT to blame the mentally ill or make it seem like every one is a time bomb. The important thing is to realize that mentally ill people who are looking for help need to feel like they are welcome to come and take it without fear AND that said help will be comprehensive and caring. I feel like this might result in a mentally ill person witch hunt. Which would suck.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

The highest cause of death among 18-30 year old Caucasian males is suicide. Something is badly wrong with our society, and it's not centred around the media, videogames, or guns; it's our mental health, and when Obama is announcing all this research and legal amendments if we overlook mental health issues then this will just happen again and again and again.

No its not? I mean i agree with you in principle but when i read this i was appalled. Was it REALLY THIS BAD?! I was shocked. Thankfully its lower than 51%.

Its 12% from the age 15-24 and 10% from the age 25 to 44.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus10.pdf

Still DAMN high though. The important thing ISNT to blame the mentally ill or make it seem like every one is a time bomb. The important thing is to realize that mentally ill people who are looking for help need to feel like they are welcome to come and take it without fear AND that said help will be comprehensive and caring. I feel like this might result in a mentally ill person witch hunt. Which would suck.

Sorry, I didn't mean highest as in higher than all other causes put together, I meant highest as in largest single cause, but I double checked the figures myself and it's actually the second highest cause of death in males 15-34 (the highest cause of death for those years is "unintentional injuries", which is incredibly broad.)

In 2004 white males that died aged 15-34 had a 15.6% - 17.1% rate of suicide
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2004/04white.pdf

In 2006 white males that died aged 15-34 had a 14.7% - 15.6% rate of suicide
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2006/WhiteMales2006.pdf

In 2007 it was 14.8 - 16.7%
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2007/WhiteMales2007.pdf

In 2008 it was 16.4% to 17%
http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2008/LCOD_whitemen2008.pdf

Every single time suicide is consistently second only to the broad category of "unintentional injuries" which is a very broad category.

I don't know if getting better mental health care would stop or reduce school shootings, I don't know how anyone could implement an effective improvement of mental health care that would actually make a noticeable improvement in the health of these people, and I don't have the faintest idea of the role (if any) these depression drugs that so many public shooters had taken, but in my opinion it's a correlation that shouldn't be ignored.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary. People who ignore this point are either thinking too much into the subject, or are simply trying to start a shit storm.

Necessary for what? Against other guns?

 

[Fimbulvetr3822]

YES! I finally get a chance to use this

 

[Blindrooster]

Guns are neither good or bad, they are simply necessary.

I like this. To extend on it a bit, everybody has an opinion on how we deal with the issues guns cause. However, it's all situational. Does somebody with little education and a criminal record or mental illness need a gun, no. Does a good citizen living in the wrong part of town need a gun to protect themselves? of course they do. Unfortuneatly the negative actions of a few cause everyone to feel the consequences. Though I do believe we are going about this the wrong way by outlawing certain guns and a magazine limit. Why not just a MUCH stricter process of licensing for gun ownership? That being said, I feel like you are targeting a demographic with your post that (if they act as you say) are just a vocal, uneducated minority if that's how arguments are conducted. There is no black and white right or wrong answer with this.

 

[Uszi]

Eh. Look, this argument, "You could do the same with an axe or a knife!" is flawed.

A gun is an efficient, deadly, projectile weapon. You need little to no training to kill an unsuspecting person at point blank range, and it requires very little effort on your part. Which is easier, pulling a trigger, or using physical strength to stab, slash or cudgel someone?

I tried to look up your Dan Simmon thing and couldn't find it, but again, I got the feeling that the most people you could kill if you started swinging an axe in public is probably a lot less than the number you could kill with a hundred round drum magazine. You're probably less likely to sustain a life threatening injury too if someone swings an axe at you than if someone shoots you anyway.

Regardless, the other part of the argument is flawed too. There isn't anyway to keep guns out of the hands of irresponsible people. How are you going to check for the depression, psychopathy, etc required to go on a shooting rampage? How are you going to check that the person isn't an idiot that ventilates their own head (like the Florida dude who shot himself)?

Finally, there is very little serious discussion of taking away all guns.

 

[Souplex]

Two unarmed people could easily take down one person armed with an ax.
A person with a gun can easily take down one person for each bullet in their clip before they pause to reload and get tackled.