Guns need to go...or do they?

[anteru]

I don't give a slight damn about guns. I think the fact that every american has the right to keep a gun at home because of some ancient amendment just shows that there's no point for being radical if it takes away the right to "protect one's home". Sure, it must've seemed like a good idea at the time i.e. back in the late 18th century - when the country was ravaged by civil wars and whatnot, but nowadays it's just plain silly.

We manage just fine in our country and there're barely even any guns in law enforcement. If you don't allow people to get their hands on killing devices so easily then crime rates should go down and people wouldn't need to "protect their homes".

Augh... it just seems way too stupid to even be debating, and i'm ranting so i'll stop now.

you have a good point... but for people where i live (montana) most people have rifles for hunting. sure you have D-bags that kill the animal and leave all the meat to rot just so they can have a trophy... which is indeed silly... i myself eat what i shoot... for some its cheaper to hunt for your own wild meat... not to mention better for you... no growth hormones and such.

 

[thahat]

id prefer the american system a lot, even if it does give more gun-deaths.
maybe then the government here would think twice about spending money on stupid things and actualy be usefull again. ;/
-the netherlands = here-

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

I see guns as tools. While their are people that abuse them for violence, they do not cause violence, and taking them away won't break that cycle of violence. There is a much deeper problem in American society that can not be addressed by simply taking away guns from people that don't use them for violent purposes. If people are afraid enough that they need guns to protect themselves, then there's something else wrong.

 

[superbatranger]

Instead of outright banning firearms, I say more effort should be put into education people about gun safety.

 

[The Austin]

If you outlaw guns, than guess who's going to have guns? Outlaws.

"Hey Ted, lets Rob a bank!"
"With what? Guns are illegal you know."
"Oh. Shit. We could use silverware?"

 

[Wadders]

You tell 'em Charlton.

 

[Sn1P3r M98]

I love my guns, and I love the Second Amendment. As Charlton Heston once said, "I'll give up my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hands"

When you take away guns, only criminals will have them. I'm a total gun nut, and my life would be empty without guns.

Spoiler: 2nd Amendment Baby!

I like NRA (National Rifle Association) supporters. We should start a group here on the Escapist for us Gun Nuts.

There's already one.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Gun-Nuts

 

[Kryzantine]

I am also a firm believer in the guns-reduce-crime model. Look at the Texas State Capitol, I believe. They allow people with guns to skip the lines to get into the building if they have a conceal carry license. This would normally spell disaster: all it takes is one guy with a chip on his shoulders to kill off a politician. But everyone else has a gun. You try anything and you'll have hundreds of guns on you instantly. The security have guns. Some of the civilians have guns. Even the politicians themselves all have guns. How many incidents have occurred in that building? None.

 

[Twad]

I dont care much about guns. I find them a useless, deadly "idol" in our modern society. Of course some ppl like them to hunt and sport shooting and its okay in my book, heck it even look fun. I like the FN Herstal designs (bullpups just look cool and efficient imho) I even own an Airsoft mp5 (with an orange tip so bright im sure it can be seen from orbit)

But for anything else? Not for me.

Home defense? I dont buy that. In the -extremely- unlikely event you are attacked in your home while your there.. i dont think anyone will have time to get their gun prep and ready..
If you use it you are just as likely to panic, miss and hurt yourself or someone else (because most bullets arent stopped by basic wood, plaster or whatever.. so familly behind the walls isnt protected at all).
Chances are the robber just want your TV and wahtever easily taken shiny is lying around.

(snip)
The less guns the better. Period.

i agree with that.

 

[DeeWiz]

I don't give a slight damn about guns. I think the fact that every american has the right to keep a gun at home because of some ancient amendment just shows that there's no point for being radical if it takes away the right to "protect one's home". Sure, it must've seemed like a good idea at the time i.e. back in the late 18th century - when the country was ravaged by civil wars and whatnot, but nowadays it's just plain silly.

We manage just fine in our country and there're barely even any guns in law enforcement. If you don't allow people to get their hands on killing devices so easily then crime rates should go down and people wouldn't need to "protect their homes".

Augh... it just seems way too stupid to even be debating, and i'm ranting so i'll stop now.

I'm not normally one to call people out but you are dead wrong sir.
First I am an American living in Japan (Japan has a no weapons of any kind rule, and in general is very pacifist) Having said that there is a reason why the gun amendment comes right after free speach. It is the second most important right we have as American's. And i'll explain that right after this question, who do guns laws hurt? It is not the criminals since they are CRIMINALS!! They do not abide by the law in the first place. It hurts the normal every day citizen. Here's a thought game. Imagine if the government issue a gun to every female in the country, now one everyone would have to get behind gun safety educating, but even if only half kept their guns that would mean any potential mugger or rapist would have a 1 in 2 chance of being shot, not exactly the odds even depraved lunatics would play with their lives.

The main reason for guns in America is because we the current government was formed by a bunch of terrorist overthrowing the legitamite government, the British. Thats right we Americans were TERRORISTS. The basics tennents of governmwnt should be that a government should be afraid of its people, not the otherway around, ask anyone from the former Soviet bloc, or many of current countries where people "dissidents" are pulled of the streets and disappear. The founding fathers knew that at some point our government would get so corrupt that there would no solution but to overthrow it. And yes of course the government wants gun control, every gun they can get out of the hand of a citizen is one less citizen they have to care about.

No I do not own a gun and never would for recreation purposes, however if it happens in my lifetime I will fly back to the US and take part in the peoples revolution, gun in hand proud to be an American.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

For guns! Also this would go better in politics thread.

 

[TimbukTurnip]

Gun threads have been done to death, but whatever, I'll say what I think.

I live in the UK and i dont give a crap about guns, but I seriously cannot understand these arguments in favour of guns. I could quote a whole bunch of them and point out obvious flaws. Right now though it's 1am and Im on my iPod so I'll make a quick list.

-Guns are not 'tools' they are weapons. Tools can be used to build and create, but guns are made only to destroy. You say "if we ban guns we should ban drills and hammers too etc", but that makes no sense. First of all, those are harder to conceal, and secondly, wouldn't you rather someone tried to attack you with a knife or hammer? Sure, it would bloody hurt if you got hit, but you've got a much better chance of avoiding that as you can run away. Hell, your chances of wrestling it off your attacker are also improved.

-(I could be completely wrong at this bit) "if you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns". Aside from police and military, this may well be true, however I think it would be a damn bit harder for criminals to get guns, as the laws would be strict and enforced (I would hope). Take my country for example. I very rarely hear about gun crime here. The last time I did was the Raul Moat thing that, though bad, got completely over used by the media. And the general crimnals (chavs, gangsters, etc) very rarely have the knowledge or connections needed to acquire guns, whereas in America, from what I understand, pretty much everyone has one, or can easily get one.

-(I think someone else said this also) If you're out and you have a gun at home, and your home is robbed, you have just armed a criminal who may very well have not had a gun before.

-"Defending your home". I think the occasions where this would work are fewer than those when it wouldn't. Say you wake up due to hearig a noise - there's a robber or two in your house and he has a gun. If you don't have a gun you can quietly get in your room, you're pretty much fucked. If you do, you might get lucky and scare him off or whatever, but this is unlikely. He will have his gun ready and will be alert, and might have a much better gun too. You on the other hand have just woken up and are tired. I just don't see it working.

-if youre a complete bloody numpty with guns, you could end up hurting yourself or someone else. Or you could just forget your gun, leave it lying around somewhere for a child or numpty friend to shoot themself with.

-Statistics. If I remember I'll check later, but I'm pretty sure the statistics for gun crime in america is much much higher than anywhere else, even the country following america in those statistics.


I'm sure there was a whole bunch of other points I was going to make but this took longer than expected and I'm tired.

 

[WolfThomas]

Yes, I think Australia's laws are pretty sound, sporting shooters can still have guns but they have to be sensible about their use and storage. Also no semi-automatic rifles or shotguns, you just have to be a better hunter. One shot, one kill. It is the only thing Howard did that was decent, and even then he fucked it royally. In Australia you can still use a target pistol at a range, and there are special dispenations for collectors but really what do you need a handgun for anyway? Protection? From whom?

Crocodiles? Wild dogs? Now I'm Australian, I have a cat A+B license and I generally support our gun laws. But there are jobs that should be allowed to carry a handgun (with appropriate training and onsite storage). In the Northern territory and I believe Queensland tour boat operators and similar sorts of jobs are allowed to carry large calibre pistols to kill or deter crocodiles if they get into a dangerous situation. But this should trickle down to other jobs and areas, like anything involving working out in the bush. I think even farmers of very large properties should be able to get them (again with appropriate licensing, registration and training).

I have a family friend who works for the department of fisheries who got bailed up for 3 hours by wild dogs while checking on a lake. He literally had to stand on this tiny outcrop of rock swinging a branch at five half-dingo half-god knows what mongrels who were trying to kill him. Had he had a handgun and the appropriate training he could have driven off or killed these animals. This also isn't a situation where a rifle couldn't fill a handgun's place, as jobs like these require already carrying a large amount of equipment and the gun would most likely have been left in his range rover.

Also a few points about your above statements, semi-automatics are restricted not banned, easily obtainable if you own a large enough property. Likewise it's not necessarily a one shot, one kill scenario even now, lever, bolt and pump rifles can be used almost as effectively as semi-autos in sending a whole bunch of bullets towards an animal

It's a matter of escalation, I know a guy who worked two jobs, as a rent-a-cop on armoured cars and as an orderly in a psychiatric hospital. He much prefered the hospital where he was spat on, bitten and had shit thrown at him over the armoured car job. Why? because he had to carry a pistol on the armoured car and if anyone wanted what was in the truck they would have guns and he was much more likely to be killed.

I knew a guy who volunteered at our school who was a private security counsultant (basically he organised security guards), he loved doing jobs which required him to carry his gun, simply because he got to change a lot more and he knew he'd probably never need to use it. I guess it's not the same as an armoured car, but I don't get what your saying, that armoured cars shouldn't have armed guards? I'd rather the rare unfortunate incidence where they have to use their guns, then them having to fight off hoards of people with cricket bats trying to get the money at every stop.

I support the no guns policy of the UK. It prohibits the possession of ALL handguns, as the only reason for a hand gun is to point it at people.

As I mentioned above they can also be pointed at dangerous animals...which is probably not a huge problem in the UK.

I used to own a number of firearms, coming from a rural community in the Australian out back they could be claimed to be necessary, but after moving to the city I brought a couple of guns with me and joined the local range for target shooting (not that I actually did much, turns out there's a lot more stuff to do in town). A couple of years later I was cleaning an old .303 lee enfield bolt action of ww2 vintage when a visitor dropped by, before I could say anything upon entering my kitchen he had already snatched up the rifle pointed it at my chest pulled the trigger and yelled BANG!!
Now it was at this point that it dawned on me that I was taking it for granted that most people just are not educated in gun safety, as they are in say a shooting household, so after regaining my composure and explaining to my friend the many points of just how wrong his and my own actions had been and what the potential outcomes could have been. I decided to give up my fire arms licenses and disposed of my gun collection at the police station. So I guess I'm kinda sitting on the fence here. Personally due to that experience I am loathe to have gun around a family home, but then I also understand that some people really do enjoy using firearms both for recreation/land care and are educated in there storage and responsible use.

While your visitors behaviour was certainly incredibly dangerous and stupid. I've got to question how and why he was able to grab the gun. I'm intensely paranoid with my own guns and treat everyone like they're pants on head retarded until I know otherwise (even those with licenses). If I am not directly working on my gun or have to take a break I immediately return the gun to safe, and if that's not possible, to its bag zipped up with my eye on it. He should never have seen the gun, let alone been able to touch it.

But yes people are ridiculously stupid, I am happy to say I saw at a gun show a man refuse to sell a gun to another man, even though he had the appropriate licensing, because of the dangerous way he and his friend handling the gun (aiming at people in the crowd, pulling the trigger and other general disregard for safety). And this guy had a license.

 

[Talshere]

I support the no guns policy of the UK. It prohibits the possession of ALL handguns, as the only reason for a hand gun is to point it at people.

As I mentioned above they can also be pointed at dangerous animals...which is probably not a huge problem in the UK.

Not unless you consider pointing a handgun or automatic rifle at an adder or jellyfish a constructive means of pest control... All truly potentially dangerous animals native to the UK were wiped out hundreds of years ago, unless you believe the tales of mountain cats roaming the moors and highlands.

Also, I happen to know that there are several hunting rifles that lack the power to penetrate a bears skull, so I fail to see how a hand gun could be considered an effective method or animal control. Just as I cant really see how a automatic rifle isnt a tad overkill. In both of these cases a rifle or shotgun should be more than sufficient. I maintain that the only real reason for the possession of handguns and automatic rifles is to use them recreationally at a range or to point them at people. I cant see how either of these uses could be fobbed off in such a way to make them legal in the UK.

 

[WolfThomas]

Not unless you consider pointing a handgun or automatic rifle at an adder or jellyfish a constructive means of pest control... All truly potentially dangerous animals native to the UK were wiped out hundreds of years ago, unless you believe the tales of mountain cats roaming the moors and highlands.

Also, I happen to know that there are several hunting rifles that lack the power to penetrate a bears skull, so I fail to see how a hand gun could be considered an effective method or animal control. Just as I cant really see how a automatic rifle isnt a tad overkill. In both of these cases a rifle or shotgun should be more than sufficient. I maintain that the only real reason for the possession of handguns and automatic rifles is to use them recreationally at a range or to point them at people. I cant see how either of these uses could be fobbed off in such a way to make them legal in the UK.

Well fortunately we don't have bears in Australia, most dangerous wild animals such as dogs and pigs (as well as native snakes I guess) only require smaller calibres and a pistol would be suitable. Likewise these animals can be scared off by a gun shot. The portability of the guns is the advantage over rifles. I likewise agree that semi-automatics and full automatics are overkill. I just believe something such a single action revolver (quite different from say a semi-automatic glock) has it place in farming, hunting and wildlife based occupuations.

 

[moonlantern]

Whether guns are good or bad is irrelevant here(US). Our right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution, nothing else matters.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

I don't give a slight damn about guns. I think the fact that every american has the right to keep a gun at home because of some ancient amendment just shows that there's no point for being radical if it takes away the right to "protect one's home". Sure, it must've seemed like a good idea at the time i.e. back in the late 18th century - when the country was ravaged by civil wars and whatnot, but nowadays it's just plain silly.

We manage just fine in our country and there're barely even any guns in law enforcement. If you don't allow people to get their hands on killing devices so easily then crime rates should go down and people wouldn't need to "protect their homes".

Augh... it just seems way too stupid to even be debating, and i'm ranting so i'll stop now.

I'm not normally one to call people out but you are dead wrong sir.
First I am an American living in Japan (Japan has a no weapons of any kind rule, and in general is very pacifist) Having said that there is a reason why the gun amendment comes right after free speach. It is the second most important right we have as American's. And i'll explain that right after this question, who do guns laws hurt? It is not the criminals since they are CRIMINALS!! They do not abide by the law in the first place. It hurts the normal every day citizen. Here's a thought game. Imagine if the government issue a gun to every female in the country, now one everyone would have to get behind gun safety educating, but even if only half kept their guns that would mean any potential mugger or rapist would have a 1 in 2 chance of being shot, not exactly the odds even depraved lunatics would play with their lives.

The main reason for guns in America is because we the current government was formed by a bunch of terrorist overthrowing the legitamite government, the British. Thats right we Americans were TERRORISTS. The basics tennents of governmwnt should be that a government should be afraid of its people, not the otherway around, ask anyone from the former Soviet bloc, or many of current countries where people "dissidents" are pulled of the streets and disappear. The founding fathers knew that at some point our government would get so corrupt that there would no solution but to overthrow it. And yes of course the government wants gun control, every gun they can get out of the hand of a citizen is one less citizen they have to care about.

No I do not own a gun and never would for recreation purposes, however if it happens in my lifetime I will fly back to the US and take part in the peoples revolution, gun in hand proud to be an American.

Are you even listening to yourself?

The government will get so corrupt that there's no other way to go about things than to shoot every current politican? Also - You'd fly back to the US from Japan to take part in a revolution like that?

You, good sir, have just lit the fire under the "All americans are crazed gun-nuts" stereotype.
To be perfectly honest i don't see how you could even imagine i'd change my mind about this.

Guns should be prohibited to wield by everyone outside law enforcement, and that's my opinion. Personally i think it'd take the crime rate down a lot seeing as the US has by far the most gun-related crimes in the whole world. (Or at least gun-related murders, but i think it's crime as an over-all)

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Guns should be prohibited to wield by everyone outside law enforcement, and that's my opinion. Personally i think it'd take the crime rate down a lot seeing as the US has by far the most gun-related crimes in the whole world. (Or at least gun-related murders, but i think it's crime as an over-all)

....and what happens to all those once legal guns? You guessed it. Crims get them. Crims who don't care about the laws, don't care that it's illegal to own them, don't care that it's illegal to use them on other people. Crime rates would absolutely skyrocket with the enaction of such a ban.

Oh yeah, 'cuz my idea was that everyone should just throw their guns straight out the window as soon as the law was made? How about sending every gun outside law enforcement to termination? Or didn't that thought even strafe you?

 

[Nunny]

Im more for Gun control rather then banning them outright.

The Australian System is probley the closest to my views on Firearms.
One needs a Proper reason to own a Firearm and they are limited to reasonable types.

Edit: also the whole "overthrow the currupt government thing" is crap, unless one has the support of the Armed forces a Revolution will almost always fail no-matter how well equiped Civilians are.