Guys are jerks. But girls...?

[Beliyal]

snip

oh yeah, ive seen a bunch of guys who're assholes but they were being manipulated by women so it balances out. all women are manipulative, shallow... things... that really need to be taught a lesson. i dunno mayabe guys they like reject them because theyre too ugly, then when theyre crying, every guy theyve rejected will kick them down even further by telling them that they deserve it and now she feels the same way every guy they declined did

hes considered a stalker because hes considered ugly in societys eyes, all the women are judging him based on looks alone. my all women are shallow point stays in effect

Well, that's... an interesting point of view. Since there's no scientific evidence, we can't really make either of our opinions "true", so I'll leave it as it is. I disagree, but hey, it's not the end of the world. I'd like to say that I don't consider myself being a shallow, manipulative creature, but maybe I'm biased. Still, I wish you to find some non-shallow and manipulative girl one day (if girls are what you prefer).

 

[RaikuFA]

Sure, assholes can be either gender but eh... that girl in the FaceBook comment doesn't sound like that much of a jerk, sounds more like "Toby" is a creepy stalker. If you ask someone out and they aren't interested, then you back off and look else-where, following them around and showering gifts onto them isn't going to suddenly make them like you.

Although in that picture that guy comes across as a bit of a stalker, so I don't blame that girl for trying to avoid him

Now if someone could just get the guys doing it to stand back and see that.

I have put up with at least 2 of those guys and they are scary. She is a ***** for taking the things and possibly not being straight with him but it is just one side of the story. I ran into one of the guys about 5 years after the 2 year long incident. He was recently married and still bitter enough to verbally insult me, I am sure he still views it differently.

Really, guys like that need to stop. Just stop. No excuses. No "but we are made for each other" BS. Just stop. Obsession is not a redeeming quality. Telling yourself you are a nice guy doesn't make it so. Flattery only goes so far before you are into the creepy, restraining order zone.

Sure, it may be hard for you to get a date but if you think that is the way to do it you are wrong. Imagine the situation reversed. Think about some girl that you are not attracted to. Then think about her asking you out. You are embarrassed, even flattered a bit maybe, but you tell her nicely that you are not interested because.. well you are not interested. It isn't like you are obligated to give reasons and maybe specific reasons seem not nice and hey, you want to be nice about it because there is no reason to not be at that point. You have to see her in school or at work daily. She continues to pursue you. Texts you. Talks to her friends about how perfect you two are for each other. Shows up in the same places. Buys you gifts and sends cards randomly and on holidays. Hangs out in the same group of friends. If you are dating someone she is bitching about how wrong your girlfriend is for you or what a ***** she is and probably how ugly too. Your girlfriend will probably be annoyed by her advances at some point. Your friends will probably tease you about her. And this goes on for days... weeks... months. Very few days go by without you being reminded that she is there for you.

Sure, as a guy you probably don't have to worry about any physical consequences from the girl but at what point do you think it becomes strange and maybe a little frightening? Six months? A year? At what point do you question her mental stability? Since she hasn't taken a nicely worded no for an answer would you move on to not being so nice about it? Well the Facebook girl has put up with it for at least 4 years at the point of that post. Can you see that she may be a bit scared? Do you think the guy stopped after that? Do you think she should just go out with him? Do you think they are the perfect couple that the guy sees in his head?
Be honest with yourself and if you see yourself in that post, my advice is to stop, you are probably scaring someone.

While I agree with everything you said I don't think you're considering the cause and perspective of guys/gals who do this.

You're assuming she said "I'm not interested." That may be the case and if so I would agree its rather creepy. However from what he wrote, which could very well be biased, it sounds like she led him on as evident by him doing the project, her taking the tickets, and telling him yes and standing him up. That makes it very different if you have feelings for the person and they are just using you. Of course she implicitly rejected him by giving away the flowers, standing him up, and just avoiding being with him in general but that always leaves room for doubt. Feelings are typically irrational yada yada. So if that is the case I rather feel sorry for the guy.

See most guys who are not naturally gifted in courting the opposite sex will go and try to mimic a tried and true method to do so. The one most well known to most is the one were the guy "courts the girls with romantic gestures" so often depicted in literature, movies, and other media the guy has been exposed to. So they try this, and if they get anything but flat out rejection they can actually think its working on some level because "its a tried a true method". That is not an excuse to do it, but it is the reason why I think it happens so often.

That said I do agree with you that obsessive courting like that is the wrong way to start a relationship and 999/1000 leads to the opposite of what the person courting wants. That is feelings of distrust, fright, resentment, and so forth rather than those of interest and attraction. So yea, just don't do it. Leave the romantic gestures for when you are actually in a relationship.

I have to say, does anyone else find it ironinc that girls (in general, not all off them *covers self from backlash* seem to be completely obsessed with the stuff described in movies etc, and always talk about how they want to be like the girl/woman in said movie/book etc, yet if a guy actually trys it in real life, its instantly classed as creepy?... Seriously make your mind up >.>

thats called a double standard, women are allowed to be beggars and choosers

snip

oh yeah, ive seen a bunch of guys who're assholes but they were being manipulated by women so it balances out. all women are manipulative, shallow... things... that really need to be taught a lesson. i dunno mayabe guys they like reject them because theyre too ugly, then when theyre crying, every guy theyve rejected will kick them down even further by telling them that they deserve it and now she feels the same way every guy they declined did

hes considered a stalker because hes considered ugly in societys eyes, all the women are judging him based on looks alone. my all women are shallow point stays in effect

Well, that's... an interesting point of view. Since there's no scientific evidence, we can't really make either of our opinions "true", so I'll leave it as it is. I disagree, but hey, it's not the end of the world. I'd like to say that I don't consider myself being a shallow, manipulative creature, but maybe I'm biased. Still, I wish you to find some non-shallow and manipulative girl one day (if girls are what you prefer).

hell no, im not having someone just use me so they can get free stuff in life then suck me dry. taking everything i have just so they dont have to work another day

 

[Navvan]

I ASSUMED no such thing. I believe I covered her taking advantage of him in the second paragraph but I am sure you both explain it better.

You're right that wasn't an accurate depiction of what you assumed and that was poor wording on my part. Upon initially reading your post it came across as "The guy is creepy and wrong for doing what he did". I believe now it was more along the lines of "This is a bad method to try and get a date and is bad for everyone involved".

I would disagree with not having sympathy for such people. That is people who obsessively court and are led on and not those who are actually stalkers. As explained in my previous post I do. However, I recognize that people are different and the presence or absence of sympathy is not really something that can be argued for or against.

I think this stems because we're each coming to this situation from opposite sides. While I never obsessively courted someone I have been accused of being creepy/stalker for reasons not within my control. Although I will admit it was partly my fault for not considering her perspective. While as you mentioned you were a victim of obsessive courting.

 

[James Crook]

Like somebody posted yesterday:
You don't need to have a dick to be a dick.
Some girls just enjoy taking profit out of you then hanging you out to dry if you're boring them and they're feeling like the ***** they are.

 

[BoogieManFL]

Everyone can be a dick, male or female. We just do it differently.

Men typically confine any dickish behavior to reality and things that have some sense of logic about them. If the guy isn't a career asshole you can probably get him to chill or change his mind by making sense and prove they are acting improperly. On the other hand, career assholes who are men are typically much worse than women - and more vocal and aggressive about it.

Women most often do it for emotional reasons and it's far more difficult to get them to relax or see another perspective. Women tend to hold on to these negative situations for much longer than most males would. If they get upset enough they are less likely to rationally discuss it.

Call me biased if you want, but I find bitchy girls much more stressful and difficult to deal with simply because it just goes on and on even if they ARE wrong and you can prove it. It's virtually impossible to change their minds. A guy will usually drop it before long and let it go even if it doesn't get resolved. Females tend to be more hurtful with what they say, where a guy will just try to piss you off or show you up.

All that being said, I still much prefer to deal and be around girls than other guys because I usually get along with them better.

 

[Valdus]

I dated a girl who was a dick once, though I was too naive to really see her for what she was. When I did I finally ended it and haven't looked back. Break-ups are supposed to be hard and painful right? Well this one wasn't, that's because I realised just how much she was using me.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Many a time, I have. 'Tis not fun, but I deal with it. I know she doesn't mean to be outright mean to me.

 

[Zorak the Mantis]

Both sexes have members who are assholes. Unfortunately it's one of those things that gets stereotyped. Cause you know, if that girl is a total ***** than clearly every other girl must be... /sarcasm

And yea that dude from the OP's image is a bit creepy.

 

[Idocreating]

Sure, assholes can be either gender but eh... that girl in the FaceBook comment doesn't sound like that much of a jerk, sounds more like "Toby" is a creepy stalker. If you ask someone out and they aren't interested, then you back off and look else-where, following them around and showering gifts onto them isn't going to suddenly make them like you.

I don't know, Toby starts by asking her to help work on a project they've both been assigned too. That's not stalker behaviour, that's wanting to get your work done, bu aside from that he's a guy whose clearly not understood that this girl is not for him and takes advantage of his continued attempts. ***** also should've just told him to sod off and that she wasn't interested, because she's clearly happy with taking advantage of this guy.

 

[Alxast45]

Actualy sterotypes for this can be proven. Whilst both areas of humanity can be jerks Males tend to be more violent and females will tend to revert to less physical but still as (or more) scaring ways.

 

[RaikuFA]

Sure, assholes can be either gender but eh... that girl in the FaceBook comment doesn't sound like that much of a jerk, sounds more like "Toby" is a creepy stalker. If you ask someone out and they aren't interested, then you back off and look else-where, following them around and showering gifts onto them isn't going to suddenly make them like you.

I don't know, Toby starts by asking her to help work on a project they've both been assigned too. That's not stalker behaviour, that's wanting to get your work done, bu aside from that he's a guy whose clearly not understood that this girl is not for him and takes advantage of his continued attempts. ***** also should've just told him to sod off and that she wasn't interested, because she's clearly happy with taking advantage of this guy.

unfortunately, theres a lot of people on here who think she was 100% right, and anyone who disagrees hates women

 

[Lord_Nemesis]

The way I can put it, lads are dicks and a big, explosive, in-your-face kind of way. They, that is WE (when we act like dicks), do or say something that will cause hurt and/or anger in a big, loud way such as in the middle of something we just belt out, right in the face "You fuckin, fat/ugly/two-faced/ skank/slut/*****!". Hurtful, yes. Do we get our point across, most probably. BUT after its said and done. 5 minutes later, its all over and were done with it.

GIRLS however be sneaky as fuck about out. Planning a dick move in advanced and playing it out and not seeing any results for days, week or even months. BUT, when it does happen, holy fuck, it happens big. They don't put you down, they don't insult you (unless it is a small step in their masterplan), they completely rip you aapart, chew you to bits, spit you out and leave some glue for a rabid badger to put you back together while humping you. I've seen it happen (not the badger part but the life detroying bit) and all I can say is this...

We may be overall stronger and bigger than girls lads but seriosuly, SERIOSULY, do NOT fuck around with the ladies. In the end, you will lose and you will lose not just your dignity, self respect and way of being but your very soul.

 

[the.gill123]

Well, in my experiance men and women are just as bad as each other, but if a bloke starts banging on about how he has ben mistreated people tend to take the piss for being a pussy, where as a women saying the exact same things will get more sympathy, this is a bit of generalisation, but i have seen it happen quite a few times, so men come off as being worse, simply because it has become the general perseption.

 

[Snyde]

I've made this clear before, people are shit. Everyone can be shit. Some groups of people have unwritten, vaguely established ways of being shit, but there's always someone who breaks those rules, because they aren't rules. Trying to understand human behavior by breaking them into groups and devising specific rules is futile, because there really aren't any rules.

There are just as many petty, selfish, hateful, cruel, greedy, ignorant, poisonous, and yes, violent women as there are men. The more you buy into stereotypes, the more true they become. Don't assume things about people based on factors out of their control, that's basic reasonable behavior.

This has got to be quote of the year.

 

[The Austin]

Guys are dicks, girls are bitches. True story.

I concur with this scientific thesis.

 

[Oliver Pink]

Sure, assholes can be either gender but eh... that girl in the FaceBook comment doesn't sound like that much of a jerk, sounds more like "Toby" is a creepy stalker. If you ask someone out and they aren't interested, then you back off and look else-where, following them around and showering gifts onto them isn't going to suddenly make them like you.

From personal experience, I can tell you that some people won't take the hint unless you openly tell them to fuck off.

Being ambiguous and being 'friendly' to their face, but then never actually tell them how you feel is just... Evil.

 

[Saviordd1]

Of course girls are dicks. My first real relationship of 7 months ended with her breaking up with me for no reason, then stringing me along by feigning guilt only to slam me down again, this went on for two months. I'll never forget or forgive that one, even to this day (2 years later) we might be friends but I don't give her the time of day.

So, to be honest, ANYONE who says girls are guiltless are liars or naive

 

[Grahav]

The stereotype is so big that you hardly see any female last bosses.

 

[DementedSheep]

Of course woman can be dicks just as much as guys. There are just as many fucked up woman as there are fucked up men. We are all human. Tho it?s not only woman that are manipulative shits and play victim when they have no right with men being open about it. I?ve have seen plenty of guys do it too. Yeah its more common among woman but the gap isn?t as big as people seem to think it is.