Hacking/BOTTING on MMOs is morally superior over hacking FPS etc

[Ghostkai]

Botting is cheating, cheating is bad. In any game. End of.
And stop talking about boars and a lack of a competitive pvp scene. You clearly don't know MMO's.

 

[Woodsey]

I don't think the words "moral" or "evil" can be applied to something so irrelevant.

Anywhere, they're both cheating, so not really.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Effects of Botting in an FPS:
Causes people to rage
People leave the server
Gives newer players the impression that aimbots are common and they should expect them
The player botting gets a high K/D
If they are overly prevalent in the game the legitimate players feel like they've wasted £45/$60

Effects of Botting in an MMO:
They will monopolise the mobs they are grinding, any quests involving these mobs become extremely frustrating to run.
RMT Spammers can make local chat unusable areas where players might need help (i.e. the starting point for their class/race)
They dominate the mineral/herb markets possibly giving a handful of people the ability to set prices unreasonably high, making crafting professions a pain
Players using characters leveled by botting are 99.999% useless at that class, making them worthless guild/party members
People see no point in continuing once they see other people reaching their power level with no effort and leave the server (in most MMO's your character is bound to that server, so all the effort amounts to nothing)
If they are overly prevalent in the game the legitimate players feel like they've wasted possibly several hundred £/$

Oh and it's probably worth saying, hackers/botters are responsible for the anti-cheat programs the rest of us are required to install.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

You've obviously not played any MMOs other than perhaps EVE. You do have to use your brain. What if you pull more mobs than you can handle? You have to think how to escape e.t.c.

Are you implying EVE players are dumb? need you see the chart?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c.jpg

 

[ionveau]

Effects of Botting in an FPS:
Causes people to rage
People leave the server
Gives newer players the impression that aimbots are common and they should expect them
The player botting gets a high K/D
If they are overly prevalent in the game the legitimate players feel like they've wasted £45/$60

Effects of Botting in an MMO:
They will monopolise the mobs they are grinding, any quests involving these mobs become extremely frustrating to run.
RMT Spammers can make local chat unusable areas where players might need help (i.e. the starting point for their class/race)
They dominate the mineral/herb markets possibly giving a handful of people the ability to set prices unreasonably high, making crafting professions a pain
Players using characters leveled by botting are 99.999% useless at that class, making them worthless guild/party members
People see no point in continuing once they see other people reaching their power level with no effort and leave the server (in most MMO's your character is bound to that server, so all the effort amounts to nothing)
If they are overly prevalent in the game the legitimate players feel like they've wasted possibly several hundred £/$

Oh and it's probably worth saying, hackers/botters are responsible for the anti-cheat programs the rest of us are required to install.

Ya...your thinking about Chines gold farmers, And its Also the people with the best gear tend to be the ones that bot the game at some point no joke

 

[ThisIsSnake]

snip

Ya...your thinking about Chines gold farmers, And its Also the people with the best gear tend to be the ones that bot the game at some point no joke

Chinese gold farmers and botters aren't really different, the gold farmer's doing it to put food on the table, the botter is doing it because he feels the games he buys should start at the end game with all the best stuff.

For the second point, no shit sherlock.

 

[Femaref]

I'm inclined to agree, cheating in an FPS in pretty abhorrent, it ruins the game for everyone immediately.

On the flipside, botting in MMOs isn't as bad, you aren't destroying someone else's experience straight away. MMOs aren't exactly competitive like FPS, because you aren't competing in a fast paced competition (at least when botting would be used).

In EVE online it pretty much lets the game bot for you when you aren't online, so yeah that sounds like a plan.

That's not true. Any action done offline in Eve doesn't introduce money into the economy (it simply shifts it around) and thus is no problem. Also, Eve is a hell of a lot more competitive than any FPS as the effects are lasting and shaping the world. In an FPS, you just restart the round. In Eve, you make one mistake and the efforts of the last week to take a system are gone. Also, 1600 people fights in one system.

Don't forget HULKAGEDDON! Where all the botters go to DIE!

Hulkageddon isn't just killing botters, it is also market manipulation.

You've obviously not played any MMOs other than perhaps EVE. You do have to use your brain. What if you pull more mobs than you can handle? You have to think how to escape e.t.c.

So, what you are saying is that WoW requires more brain than Eve?

 

[Femaref]

So, what you are saying is that WoW requires more brain than Eve?

No, I'm saying that EVE is more calculator-based than WoW... if that makes any sense at all. (I'm just trying to say this in context of the main post).

Yes, it kind of makes sense.

 

[ionveau]

snip

Ya...your thinking about Chines gold farmers, And its Also the people with the best gear tend to be the ones that bot the game at some point no joke

Chinese gold farmers and botters aren't really different, the gold farmer's doing it to put food on the table, the botter is doing it because he feels the games he buys should start at the end game with all the best stuff.

For the second point, no shit sherlock.

Not true Gold farmers tend to bot with multiple accounts as in 20 accounts per computer and like 4 computers in his room while a average botter bots the account up to 80 and stops so ya the average botter dose next to nothing while you cry about the economy

 

[ThisIsSnake]

snip

Ya...your thinking about Chines gold farmers, And its Also the people with the best gear tend to be the ones that bot the game at some point no joke

Chinese gold farmers and botters aren't really different, the gold farmer's doing it to put food on the table, the botter is doing it because he feels the games he buys should start at the end game with all the best stuff.

For the second point, no shit sherlock.

Not true Gold farmers tend to bot with multiple accounts as in 20 accounts per computer and like 4 computers in his room while a average botter bots the account up to 80 and stops so ya the average botter dose next to nothing while you cry about the economy

Yes I'm holding a tiny economy funeral as we speak.

Other people are botting so if I bot it's alright? that's seriously your reasoning? I imagine there's more than 1 person aimbotting too.

 

[Nazulu]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

No, there is no point.

If you don't enjoy grinding, then you quest. If there is nothing but grinding, then play another MMO. Find friends to play with you, it's meant to be a multiplayer experience.

Botting in what you call the boring parts is still cheating, it's unfair for those who enjoy the experience and I believe if you bot from the beginning, you never really cared what anyone else thinks in the first place.

Also, there are quite a few who do it to farm and it can change how much things cost in the whole server, usually making things more expensive.

Multiplayer exactly. Your friends may not always be online the same time as you, but you may still want to keep up with them.
Little need to experience the bits in between the raids.

As for farming with bots or just farming yourself, inflation continues either way, but atleast the botter isn't wasting his own time.

What the fuck is the point of playing at all? You might as well find a private server just for pvping and raiding, that's why they're there. Unless you like annoying people or plan to sell in game money, that's the only thing that makes sense.

Also, you can communicate with just about everything now days, so you can easily plan ahead to play with friends. Then you can make in game friends, join a fucking clan, it's not hard.

Inflation happens when a lot of people buy a fuck load of money online. It doesn't just happen either way, only from people who don't care what others think and who poorly defend botting.

 

[ionveau]

OP... how many MMOs have you played?

I have a feeling it's zero. In which case... your argument holds no water. At all.

i played a few, i also noticed how people who play them tend to have the mentality of a spoiled 15 year old

 

[tlozoot]

They both suck, although being outplayed in an FPS because of hacking is probably more of a cheat than being outplayed in an MMO. FPS' take more raw reaction and skill.

Both suck though. It'd be like sitting a non-calculator math exam where some of your peers snuck in a calculator.

 

[Tortoiseloz]

Magical snip of time

SO what your saying is that I wasted my time by leveling a warlock to level 85, learning the perfect rotations, which spells I have to use and when, what things I need to progress, what Gear have the best stats for me and all the different dungeon runs learning boss encounters are meaningless because a computer can stand around in one area for hours is sonehow better while aiming a gun at someone at the right time is worse if you got some guy doing it automatically.
Firstly, I am a player of both genres but I dont find that someguy botting in an fps is that bad because he will always aim in one certain direction so if I sneak past him I could just kill him yet arenas in wow, yeah they depend on your class but how you play that class, and apparently end game content is pressing 5 buttons? I have a mod called bartender which lets me see all my spells and let me say, it is more complicated than trying to get a headshot, I press about 20 buttons in 1 minute
Secondly, you said about a bot outside your spawnpoint repeatedly shooting you, have you considered he may just be a camper
Thirdly, apparently questing through all the different zones, seeing new places, doing certain fun quests, reading the interesting stories is the boring part of Mmos? no the boring part is waiting for people to join a raid, usually they take so long to join because they are in the middle of something that is fun and then join for the raid later which is equally or more fun, yes its kind of bad to have someguys using a hack that shoots bullets through walls but you can always just leave and join a different server, with mmos, you probably have a whole group o friends on that server, and when you move you have to pay money to move to leave all your friends behind because someguy thought that he was somehow higher than everyone else and got a program that makes his character kill an important quest mob for gold or reputation or experience even though after like five lvels he wouldnt gain any experience at all.

Your arguments are invalid because what you are saying shows that you havent encountered a bot in an mmo but you somehow know that they are not lazy do nothing people who would rather sit around and watch tv all day than rather play the game and feel fufilled even though it is pixels on a screen.

There is a reason why I am farming the raven lord mount, it drops off a dungeon boss, I can go in there and solo the whole thing and it woldnt have an effect on anyone else because the dungeon counts as a different server that noone else can go in unless they are in a group with me, yet a bot could be out killing a mob X number times in an hour just so he can get money, people need to have the mobs available so they can get exp from questing so they can level up to the next level, becoming more usefull

I'm not saying that botting in mmos is worse than botting in fps's, im just sayong that you cant think that botting in an mmo is perfectly okay if it doesnt trouble 8 people and you can have gold without earning it, thats like your example of saying that you bot an fps to get a better gun and its cheating because it gives them more powr but thats what gold does, it lets you buy important things and repair more easily, its equally wrong because you ruin somebodies experience of the game if you do it. You can never say that killing a bunch of people in america is worse than killing a bunch of people in tai wan that would be wrong,
I know its just a game but really, you have to know what your saying and If it is actually correct
P.S, Usually you cant store gold in a bank in mmos so i dont know what your talking about

 

[Blaster395]

Bots can have a negative effect on other players, although its not direct.

1. 1000's of bots drive the price of something down.
2. Anyone getting that material legitimately earns less too.

The whole value of many goods in an MMO is based on how much time they take to earn. Take out that time element and the price quickly drops down to 0.

 

[FireDr@gon]

On the whole analogy of calculator/non-calculator exam:

You have to show your workings in a non-calculator exam to prove you have the correct skills. Its one of those things consequentialism cannot solve, the ends really can't justify the means in such tests because the means is part of the test.

Its the same in FPS and MMO, you gotta prove you got the skills if you want the rewards that come with them.

You will never gain respect from people in a game if they know you are cheating.

If you dont play multiplayer games for the sense of accomplishment you get when others observe your achievements, then cheating still spoils the gaming experience for yourself, normally by effectively removing it.

I've never cheated at any game - not even when playing by myself. For me (and many others im sure) its the Challenge that makes a game fun. If you cheat there is no challenge and therefore no fun.

You might as well load up Excel if you plan on cheating at games.

HOWEVER a commedian raised this very issue and i happen to agree with him;

Games are the only form of media that denies the user content they paid for if they lack the skill to obtain it. If you are simply not skilled enough to get reach a certain point in a SINGLE player game, then cheat if you want to see specific content/the end of the plot etc.

 

[Nu-Hir]

Aim bot taks away the main point of a FPS with botting you can go to one of the PVP parts of an MMO skipping the boring PVE.

One of the points of botting may be to play the fun, late game, parts.

It is also like having a robot do your job for you. Everyone will hate in you in envy.

I still fail to see how that's different. The pieces of crap that use aim bots are doing it because they don't want to spend their time actually learning how to beat people in the game. They're exactly the same as the people who don't want to spend their time leveling a character or farming up items or whatnot in an MMO. The only difference is that the Aimbot idiot will only be screwing over limited amounts of people at a time, whereas the MMO botter might be screwing over 1000's of people depending on what activity they're botting. Either way, the botter is a piece of crap ruining someone else's day.

Why even play a game if you are just going to have a program do everything for you?

FTFY, and I agree. If you want a game that will play itself, get the Sims.

 

[ionveau]

From the time this thread was made till now my Mage went from 97-104 just wanted to share