Had video games never been invented, would computer technology be as advanced as it is today?

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Owyn_Merrilin

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Craig Cameron said:
Volkov said:
Craig Cameron said:
Other mediums the adult entertainment industry has given us:
VHS
DVD
Blu-ray

These formats of course were developed separate from the industry, but were then backed by the industry and consequently won their respective wars.
VHS, sure. But are you trying to say that it was the porn industry that lead to the victory of Blu-Ray???
Granted I don't have more proof than, there is porn on Blu-ray and Blu-ray won but the fact that Sony would have learned from their Betamax venture leads me to believe that they wouldn't have denied the industry the right to use Blu-ray for porn because that's the reason VHS won. It's up for speculation really, I mean you can argue that there was at least 1 HD-DVD porn film but the fact that a japanese porn company started using Blu-ray for all it's movies would have given it more of an edge on the competition. But I'm babbling on and it's helping no one, least of all our young friend looking for information for a school assignment.

I'd also like to add that the pricing of the PS3 certainly wasn't behind Blu-rays victory.
I doubt that porn was the deciding reason in Blu-ray's success so much as the PS3, which was expensive, but not much more so than a first gen Blu-ray player, and it also happened to be the best player on the market for quite some time. While porn was important for VHS, Blu-ray launched with a strict no porn policy from Sony's licensing department. Porn on Blu-ray is a relatively recent development.

P.S.: Excuse me, porn was available on Blu-ray, but Sony refused to press any porn discs, and they were one of if not the biggest manufacturer of Blu-ray discs at the time. HD-DVD actually had less barriers to porn companies.

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Naner

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Basically, RAM and HDDs would be just as fast and large. Programs, high-definition video, and digital cameras would see to that. GPUs would definitely be far less powerful, because there wouldn't be much need to render real-time graphics on a home computer. Processors might've been somewhat less powerful, but there are other uses that make those eight-core bastards become even faster.

I myself rarely use my computer for gaming (that's why the PS3 and Wii on the other room are for), but that doesn't stop me from being about to buy a quad-core with at least 4 gigs of RAM for stuff like Photoshop and Flash, which are quite processor-heavy.
 

Craig Cameron

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Craig Cameron said:
Granted I don't have more proof than, there is porn on Blu-ray and Blu-ray won but the fact that Sony would have learned from their Betamax venture leads me to believe that they wouldn't have denied the industry the right to use Blu-ray for porn because that's the reason VHS won. It's up for speculation really, I mean you can argue that there was at least 1 HD-DVD porn film but the fact that a japanese porn company started using Blu-ray for all it's movies would have given it more of an edge on the competition. But I'm babbling on and it's helping no one, least of all our young friend looking for information for a school assignment.

I'd also like to add that the pricing of the PS3 certainly wasn't behind Blu-rays victory.
I doubt that porn was the deciding reason in Blu-ray's success so much as the PS3, which was expensive, but not much more so than a first gen Blu-ray player, and it also happened to be the best player on the market for quite some time. While porn was important for VHS, Blu-ray launched with a strict no porn policy from Sony's licensing department. Porn on Blu-ray is a relatively recent development.

P.S.: Excuse me, porn was available on Blu-ray, but Sony refused to press any porn discs, and they were one of if not the biggest manufacturer of Blu-ray discs at the time. HD-DVD actually had less barriers to porn companies.

source
And what have we learned from this discussion? That I'm slightly retarded and sometimes don't do proper research before I say things and that Sony's licensing department is full of idiots.
 

tahrey

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It'd certainly be different, but if you warped into another dimension where videogames simply hadn't took off, you may not immediately notice anything obvious. Computer graphics and sound in everyday use machines reached a fair plateau a HELL of a long time ago. I'm currently typing this on a SXGA, 24bit colour monitor with a machine that offers 16 bit stereo (or if i want it, 4/6 channel) sound at 48khz or more, a CPU with enough power to produce multivoice MIDI/soundtracker music at a quality that's long since made wavetables and hardware synths obsolete, and enough memory/hard drive space that even those are a bit pointless, as you just load your soundtrack up with mp3s. Ten years ago I had all that capability, just not the space for a suitable monitor to go beyond XGA. Twelve, could have done most of it with a few upgrades, if I wasn't a broke-ass schoolkid. Fifteen... would have been a struggle, but enough investment would still have seen me right. You'd have to go back twenty for the relevant tech to not actually exist yet, and even so the highest-end Amigas would probably have made you look round with a subtle but insistent clearing of the throat and pointed out that but for some insignificant tweaks of the figures, they were practically there...

A bigger question may be whether computers would have gotten quite the early home foothold that they did. Game consoles and games on general-purpose computers weren't the be-all and end-all of people having home computers, and in fact came AFTER the first ones (the Altair etc). But they were definitely a MAJOR driving force behind their popularity. The industry would have grown more slowly as people realised their productivity benefits, and older machines would have gone out of date far more slowly ... which, given that I knew someone still using a Sinclair Spectrum in 1990, I last "properly" used my Atari ST sometime around 94/95, and there's still a dwindling population of BBC Micros and IBM 5150s finding useful employment, makes me wonder if we'd have hit that plateau yet.

However, serious productivity software actually demands at least as much of the machine as games do (desktop publishing, for example, will punish a late-80s 16 bit computer far harder than a round of a typical game of the time in all areas except the soundcard and fancy programmer-tricks with the video shifter, and show up its limitations far sooner), so the development of the cutting-edge hardware may not have been so affected. There'd just be less money available to push forwards so quickly, there'd have remained a bigger focus on mainframe servers with client terminals in businesses ... something we're now slowly coming back round to with virtualisation.

I get far more use out of my computer for "serious" stuff than gaming, and when I do, I emulate a lot anyway. But I wouldn't much want to go back to 8-bit colour SVGA which was the monitor setting of choice with our bog-standard 1994 PC (it'd do high colour, but only with flicker and choppiness; XGA, but it was blurry; and true colour, but only at VGA)... it's dreadfully cramped, and the level of detail you have for editing documents is pretty naff. I've struggled on with a VGA laptop making documents when that's all my emergency fund could stretch to - the XGA one following it was far easier.

CPUs would have sped up anyway as their development is well divorced from gaming - consoles rarely use cutting edge processors etc. And everyone always wants a faster chip, to make up for the more advanced things the bleeding edge enthusiasts find to do with them. Large spreadsheets or databases require a fair old bit of bit-mangling, as do word processed documents with vector fonts etc. Then you get on to the whole business of the CDROM encyclopaedia, which brings primitive video ... everyone sees how primitive it is and demands better ... which requires a better chip. (First time I saw encarta videos was on a 386-16 ... it was intriguing, but awful... our school library got better computers SOON after)
Or at least an Amiga style coprocessor. But you rarely do anything else at the same time, and that extra power is just handy generally.

Computer aided design may have remained the preserve of mainframes and minicomputers, but not so computer-aided art. That would also be another driver of faster chips, more memory, better drives and better displays. The revolutionary nature of bringing digital technology to bear on the traditional arts cannot be overstated. But you can't do much in that regard with a C64. You need a miggy at the very least.

And along with that would come music ... games would actually have been a big music driver, so anything more than beeps may have been slower to arrive, but once enough people were using MIDI and thinking "what if we brought that sampler onboard?", or trying to make videos and other animations, or just play their music CDs, some kind of decent hardware would have come along. Probably not my beloved AY2192 or the Paula, but once you've got even a 4-bit mono output at 8khz, you can start to mess with the bitstream...

(Remember that the helper chips in the miggy were general use, not game focussed, and it was initially sold as a media productivity machine because there weren't many games about that properly used the hardware)

The one thing we'd likely be missing is serious 3D acceleration. The 3D graphics required in most non-game situations can be easily covered by CPU calculation. Hyper-real rendering as seen in current top-end titles would be the preserve of silicon-graphics style workstations and cabinet-size supercomputers, or people with enough of an interest and sufficient patience to indulge in raytracing.

The mistake I think, as above, is assuming that videogames have been at the hardware cutting edge very much other than in the last 15 years or so. Certainly PC and home computer ones didn't often push the limits after the 8-bit days, except in the very most expansive or graphically/musically rich, and generally solid-3D ones. And remember that most 8-bits other than the Apple II weren't actually expandable in any meaningful way. The game designers wrote within the hardware boundaries, rather than forcing them outwards gradually as has been the case recently.
And consoles? Heh. Really. Apart from maybe the NES, SNES, Jaguar and PSX AT THEIR RESPECTIVE LAUNCHES, console hardware has always been a fair bit behind the times. It's made down to a cost that can be justified for a "toy". Other than a source of SOME titles for porting, the loss of consoles in general probably wouldn't even be felt other than butterfly effect ripples in the pond. That, and the non-existence of Atari and Nintendo (and later Sega), which would have removed a couple of major competitors and motivators from various other companies such as Commodore and IBM.

So yeah .... we wouldn't be devoid of computers, internet, or all the facilites we associate with them. And they wouldn't be stoneage either, unless we somehow ended up in a wierd alternate history where we're all using the super cheap descendents of the Sinclair QL (their image as a "serious" electronics manufacturer having been untarnished by Jet Set Willy, and Clive's death before he could get the C5 past prototype, so they could concentrate better on improving quality and properly securing the telecoms contracts) to dial in over modem lines to a huge central server where all the proper "hard work" is done. The forces that have driven the development of the amazingly powerful audiovisual multiprocessor supertransputer workstations we take for granted would still be in play, if diluted. A person from the late 90s in our timeline would probably feel right at home in the 2011 of that universe.

Who knows, without the distraction we may have advanced to far greater things :)

If you go there and find out, bring me back a robot.
 

Volkov

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Craig Cameron said:
Granted I don't have more proof than, there is porn on Blu-ray and Blu-ray won but the fact that Sony would have learned from their Betamax venture leads me to believe that they wouldn't have denied the industry the right to use Blu-ray for porn because that's the reason VHS won.
That's some really, really, really weak proof, I am sure you see that. I mean, you gotta remember - when Betamax was fighting VHS, there was no Internet to speak of (and what little networking there was was light years away from streaming videos). So back then it made perfect sense for adult entertainment to account for a big part of the VHS market and give the format a leading edge.

But now? Porn is primarily distributed over the Internet. So even though there may be some porn available on Blu-Ray - unlike for VHS, it's an inconsequentially tiny fraction of the format's sales.

In other words - just because A and B are true, doesn't necessarily mean that A caused B. The comparison with VHS vs Betamax war just doesn't hold.

Craig Cameron said:
It's up for speculation really, I mean you can argue that there was at least 1 HD-DVD porn film but the fact that a japanese porn company started using Blu-ray for all it's movies would have given it more of an edge on the competition. But I'm babbling on and it's helping no one, least of all our young friend looking for information for a school assignment.
Why Blu-ray won is, indeed, an open question, I agree with that. But porn industry being a significant factor? No chance. If you want to argue studio support - Warner switching to Blu-Ray sounds like a MUCH more sound reason. They are responsible for a faaaaaar greater fraction of home media sales than all of porn combined. After that it was just a snowball effect.

Why did they switch? Beats me. May be related to the HD DVD format being cracked first (I'm referring to the King Kong HD DVD). Or the PS3 not requiring an accessory to play the disk. Or maybe Sony offered them something under the carpet, who knows. Point is, it had nothing to do with porn.

Craig Cameron said:
I'd also like to add that the pricing of the PS3 certainly wasn't behind Blu-rays victory.
The pricing wasn't, but the native support (vs requiring an accessory) almost certainly was. People primarily didn't buy the PS3s for Blu-ray support, they bought it to play MGS4. However, that accessory you had to buy for the 360 - well, that you would have bought only for HD DVD support, and nothing else. So I think it is reasonable to say that PS3 was one of the primary reasons behind Blu-ray's victory.
 

moest

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Mar 9, 2011
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Saying that there are also applications other than games that require heaps of processing power is all well and true, but would these applications be designed to need such processing power or graphical strength if video games weren't around to HELP push hardware to be as powerful as they are now? As in, would these applications still be as demanding if the hardware wasn't around or as mainstream to fulfill their requirements?

And also, can someone please sum up what tahrey said into simple terms that a 17yr old high school student, with only relative knowledge of gaming, would understand?