Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[LadyZephyr]

If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

You would define "friendly" trash talk how?

I would define it by not using racial, homophobic, or sexist slurs. Is that concept completely foreign to you? Is male gamer vocabulary and vernacular really that limited?

If you cannot play in an environment that is inclusive, you are driving customers away from the product, and you are costing the company money. I literally shared this article to my predominately-female gaming community five minutes about and already about twenty people are talking about how "well shit now we gotta get interesting in Halo." Because until now, no matter how much we might enjoy FPSes on PC, not a goddamn one of use would consider XBL FPS multiplayer.

That is how bad XBL is normally.

 

[Rainboq]

Read the article, racism gets you the ban hammer as well. Also, as a woman, the sexism on XBL really needs to be reined in, I've had a lot of fun times absolutely ruined by people telling me to go get in the kitchen.

Are you really so sensitive that you allow random dicks on the internet to spoil your fun?

Its not one, or two, but dozens upon dozens, constantly messaging me for pics and to be friends and/or shouting at me to get back in the kitchen.

Male gamers as a whole don't get it. It is not one or two instances of people "being dicks." It's every single time you open you mouth in a gaming environment while in possession of a feminine username or voice. It's constant abuse. it's people remembering your username and following you out of the match and telling all their buddies. It's never, ever about the game, it's about the fact that you are a lady and you don't belong here, so we will harass you until you leave.

It is not about sensitivity, it's about abuse.

And it needs to stop.

They probably won't ever get it, because they aren't subject to it. They speak from the position of the outsider, if they were to walk a mile in our shoes...


On a side note: I love you avatar! What's it from?

 

[LadyZephyr]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

This is a small step to making games more inclusive and I'm thrilled about it. Maybe my 360 will stop collecting dust on my shelf.

So it IS my poor little fee-fees. If you say something over the internet I find offensive while playing a video game with me, you don't deserve to play that video game online. I'm sorry, but I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended.
You are not "unsafe". It's an online video game. Someone telling you to get back in the kitchen is not abuse. This will not make games more inclusive, but turn people off, because if there is one thing that gamers love, it's people trying to control their speech. You may not like others' "sexist, homophobic, racist bullshit," but I don't like your overeactionary, thin-skinned, oppressive bullshit. Does that mean that you no longer get to play Halo online?

The fact you think this is as simple as a woman being told to "go back to the kitchen" shows you have no idea the extent of the abuse on XBL. Thank you, have a nice day. Come back when you understand what's being discussed.

You also may want to look up what the freedom of speech is, because you're a bit shaky on that too.

 

[Bashfluff]

Read the article, racism gets you the ban hammer as well. Also, as a woman, the sexism on XBL really needs to be reined in, I've had a lot of fun times absolutely ruined by people telling me to go get in the kitchen.

Are you really so sensitive that you allow random dicks on the internet to spoil your fun?

Its not one, or two, but dozens upon dozens, constantly messaging me for pics and to be friends and/or shouting at me to get back in the kitchen.

Male gamers as a whole don't get it. It is not one or two instances of people "being dicks." It's every single time you open you mouth in a gaming environment while in possession of a feminine username or voice. It's constant abuse. it's people remembering your username and following you out of the match and telling all their buddies. It's never, ever about the game, it's about the fact that you are a lady and you don't belong here, so we will harass you until you leave.

It is not about sensitivity, it's about abuse.

And it needs to stop.

They probably won't ever get it, because they aren't subject to it. They speak from the position of the outsider, if they were to walk a mile in our shoes...


On a side note: I love you avatar! What's it from?

Of course. The only reason we disagree is because we're not subjected to discrimination. As a bi male, I would love to hear your reasoning behind this. I can still understand what your position is without sharing it.

 

[Bashfluff]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

This is a small step to making games more inclusive and I'm thrilled about it. Maybe my 360 will stop collecting dust on my shelf.

So it IS my poor little fee-fees. If you say something over the internet I find offensive while playing a video game with me, you don't deserve to play that video game online. I'm sorry, but I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended.
You are not "unsafe". It's an online video game. Someone telling you to get back in the kitchen is not abuse. This will not make games more inclusive, but turn people off, because if there is one thing that gamers love, it's people trying to control their speech. You may not like others' "sexist, homophobic, racist bullshit," but I don't like your overeactionary, thin-skinned, oppressive bullshit. Does that mean that you no longer get to play Halo online?

The fact you think this is as simple as a woman being told to "go back to the kitchen" shows you have no idea the extent of the abuse on XBL. Thank you, have a nice day. Come back when you understand what's being discussed.

You also may want to look up what the freedom of speech is, because you're a bit shaky on that too.

A zero-tolerance ban policy for people saying things that offend others? That's what's being discussed, and if you don't understand that, perhaps you should do some research yourself before your put your foot in your mouth. And if you don't understand that freedom of speech also includes the ability to say things other people find offensive, then you need to do more research still. They most certainly have the right to do this, sure. But I think that trampling on the freedom of others to speak because someone was offended by that speech is A Very Bad Idea.

 

[LadyZephyr]

They probably won't ever get it, because they aren't subject to it. They speak from the position of the outsider, if they were to walk a mile in our shoes...


On a side note: I love you avatar! What's it from?

Yep. S'why I stick to forums that don't have a huge male presence. It's cute when men try to explain to me why abusive language and behavior is vital to their gaming culture.

I think it's from the webcomic Sinfest, back when the artist started doing the big strips on weekends.

 

[Rainboq]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

This is a small step to making games more inclusive and I'm thrilled about it. Maybe my 360 will stop collecting dust on my shelf.

So it IS my poor little fee-fees. If you say something over the internet I find offensive while playing a video game with me, you don't deserve to play that video game online. I'm sorry, but I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended.
You are not "unsafe". It's an online video game. Someone telling you to get back in the kitchen is not abuse. This will not make games more inclusive, but turn people off, because if there is one thing that gamers love, it's people trying to control their speech. You may not like others' "sexist, homophobic, racist bullshit," but I don't like your overeactionary, thin-skinned, oppressive bullshit. Does that mean that you no longer get to play Halo online?

That's freedom of speech

I'm sorry, but not all of us live in 'merica [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI]. In Canada, we have laws the put exceptions for hate speech in our freedom of speech legislation. Also, it is harrasment.

Lets define our terms, shall we?

[HEADING=2]Psychological harassment[/HEADING]
This is humiliating, intimidating or abusive behaviour which is often difficult to detect leaving no evidence other than victim reports or complaints. This characteristically lowers a person?s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, engineered episodes of intimidation, aggressive actions or repeated gestures. Falling into this category is workplace harassment by individuals or groups mobbing.
Community-based Harassment ? stalking by a group against an individual using repeated distractions that the individual is sensitized to. Media reports of large numbers of coordinated groups stalking individual stalking victims, including a press interview given by an active duty police lieutenant, have described this community-based harassment as gang stalking.

[HEADING=2]Sexual harassment[/HEADING]
Harassment that can happen anywhere but is most common in the workplace, and schools. It involves unwanted and unwelcome words, deeds, actions, gestures, symbols, or behaviours of a sexual nature that make the target feel uncomfortable. Gender and sexual orientation harassment fall into this family. Involving children, "gay" or "homo" is a common insult falling into this category. The main focus of groups working against sexual harassment is protection for women, but protection for men is coming to light in recent years.

Source. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment]

 

[Rainboq]

They probably won't ever get it, because they aren't subject to it. They speak from the position of the outsider, if they were to walk a mile in our shoes...


On a side note: I love you avatar! What's it from?

Yep. S'why I stick to forums that don't have a huge male presence. It's cute when men try to explain to me why abusive language and behavior is vital to their gaming culture.

I think it's from the webcomic Sinfest, back when the artist started doing the big strips on weekends.

Thought I recognized it, Sinfest is fucking awesome.

 

[D.L.390]

If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

You would define "friendly" trash talk how?

I would define it by not using racial, homophobic, or sexist slurs. Is that concept completely foreign to you? Is male gamer vocabulary and vernacular really that limited?

If you cannot play in an environment that is inclusive, you are driving customers away from the product, and you are costing the company money. I literally shared this article to my predominately-female gaming community five minutes about and already about twenty people are talking about how "well shit now we gotta get interesting in Halo." Because until now, no matter how much we might enjoy FPSes on PC, not a goddamn one of use would consider XBL FPS multiplayer.

That is how bad XBL is normally.

Wow, way to turn aggressive over a genuine question and immediately make a sexist remark.

"Is that concept completely foreign to you? Is male gamer vocabulary and vernacular really that limited?"

No, male gamers are not out to make sexist remarks (as you just did, I remind you). Some people are, some aren't - this sort of inflammatory behaviour is not limited to one sex or age group. Thank you for considering that so carefully before replying.


I shall remain civil, though, in agreeing with you that XBL is known for this kind of thing - that's no secret.
There are lots of kids who think they're the big cheese for saying something mildly irritating to others. That's what kids do, they irritate people for fun. "omg lol i said the kitchen thing again" etc etc.
I do think perhaps a slap on the wrist for just being so obnoxious would be a good idea, however perhaps do it via the feedback system? If someone goes around being genuinely obnoxious to everyone, they'll get bad feedback for communication and ideally be reprimanded for it.
Seems like that would be a better way of reprimanding people who go around irritating others.

I'm primarily a PC man, myself, only booting the Xbox up once a month or so for a little while. When I do go on XBL, I find myself always just muting everyone and playing in peace. I do this because I don't want to hear others, but they might want to talk to each other for whatever reason. Let them, it doesn't have to bother you - go into a party with your friends, mute everyone by default, whatever - in other words, if you let people "troll" you, they're successful trolls.

 

[Erttheking]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

This is a small step to making games more inclusive and I'm thrilled about it. Maybe my 360 will stop collecting dust on my shelf.

So it IS my poor little fee-fees. If you say something over the internet I find offensive while playing a video game with me, you don't deserve to play that video game online. I'm sorry, but I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended.
You are not "unsafe". It's an online video game. Someone telling you to get back in the kitchen is not abuse. This will not make games more inclusive, but turn people off, because if there is one thing that gamers love, it's people trying to control their speech. You may not like others' "sexist, homophobic, racist bullshit," but I don't like your overeactionary, thin-skinned, oppressive bullshit. Does that mean that you no longer get to play Halo online?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/29328017.jpg

Dude, you seriously need to calm down. And by the way, there's a massive difference between saying something that one person finds offensive, and then actively attacking them with offensive remarks. And I would say that someone having to deal with a constant barrage of insults based on a personal trait every time they speak IS abuse, and really isn't something that should be protected on account of it being, you know, harassment. And harassment is NOT protected by freedom of speech. Not even in the United States.

 

[Rainboq]

Read the article, racism gets you the ban hammer as well. Also, as a woman, the sexism on XBL really needs to be reined in, I've had a lot of fun times absolutely ruined by people telling me to go get in the kitchen.

Are you really so sensitive that you allow random dicks on the internet to spoil your fun?

Its not one, or two, but dozens upon dozens, constantly messaging me for pics and to be friends and/or shouting at me to get back in the kitchen.

And I get dozens of people calling me a ****** and saying I should be lynched.

It doesn't bother me because I know I'll never meet those people in real life, and if they get annoying I can just block them.

*shrugs* That's you, I grew up being bullied and it still hurts like hell when people do it to me.

 

[Rainboq]

Read the article, racism gets you the ban hammer as well. Also, as a woman, the sexism on XBL really needs to be reined in, I've had a lot of fun times absolutely ruined by people telling me to go get in the kitchen.

Are you really so sensitive that you allow random dicks on the internet to spoil your fun?

Its not one, or two, but dozens upon dozens, constantly messaging me for pics and to be friends and/or shouting at me to get back in the kitchen.

Male gamers as a whole don't get it. It is not one or two instances of people "being dicks." It's every single time you open you mouth in a gaming environment while in possession of a feminine username or voice. It's constant abuse. it's people remembering your username and following you out of the match and telling all their buddies. It's never, ever about the game, it's about the fact that you are a lady and you don't belong here, so we will harass you until you leave.

It is not about sensitivity, it's about abuse.

And it needs to stop.

They probably won't ever get it, because they aren't subject to it. They speak from the position of the outsider, if they were to walk a mile in our shoes...


On a side note: I love you avatar! What's it from?

Of course. The only reason we disagree is because we're not subjected to discrimination. As a bi male, I would love to hear your reasoning behind this. I can still understand what your position is without sharing it.

I'm not saying that's why people don't disagree. I'm saying that its because they don't understand the scope of it. And you know what? If it doesn't bother you? Fine, but I don't want to be harassed during my lesure time.

 

[Terminate421]

Only a few more days......go faster......

This is the biggest problem, right here. You idea that you're looking forward to this game so much.
Then again, if half the playerbase gets banned from XBL then it may just kill the game. which would make me happy[/quote]


There is really no need for that, let alone comments like that. So go be a hater somewhere else.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

They don't, but they certainly have the right to ban anyone they want from their servers - justified or not.

How though? I thought only Microsoft would have that ability and even then its only the ability to permaban you from using Xboxlive altogether, not just with specific games.

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

When they decided to take it.
I can't really blame them. When people think about Halo multiplayer, they think about the community. Personally, I wouldn't want that association with my meticulously crafted game, either.

Besides, who cares about the game-time of foul-mouthed, hateful individuals. Even if you piss them off, they will crawl back with a new account or something.

No, I mean since when did producers have the ability to ban people? I thought Microsoft reserved that ability for themselves, no?

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

Then avoid it, or put people on mute. Easy.
Otherwise, then yes we are (as you put it) talking about your "poor widdle fee-fees".

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

I say this as someone who never trashtalks on Xboxlive(I don't even own a mic), in a mature game they have every right to trashtalk to their hearts content. I agree that such language isn't fit for a game rate E or maybe even T, however for games rated M players have the right to use such language.

 

[Bashfluff]

So basically "your rights end where my feelings begin"? Since when did game producers have a say in what people do on Xbox live.

Don't be obtuse. This isn't about my poor widdle fee-fees. This is about the fact that XBL has such a systemic culture of hate that folks like me literally don't want to go anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much I love a game and want to be part of its online community-- I am not going to go into an environment that is unsafe and abusive. I don't need your sexist, homophobia, racist bullshit in my escapist past time.

To be honest, if most Halo 4 gamers end up permabanned for this, then good. It's a long time coming. If you cannot play a game and trash talk without coloring your language with hate speech, thereby breaching the terms of conduct, then you deserve to be banned.

This is a small step to making games more inclusive and I'm thrilled about it. Maybe my 360 will stop collecting dust on my shelf.

So it IS my poor little fee-fees. If you say something over the internet I find offensive while playing a video game with me, you don't deserve to play that video game online. I'm sorry, but I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended.
You are not "unsafe". It's an online video game. Someone telling you to get back in the kitchen is not abuse. This will not make games more inclusive, but turn people off, because if there is one thing that gamers love, it's people trying to control their speech. You may not like others' "sexist, homophobic, racist bullshit," but I don't like your overeactionary, thin-skinned, oppressive bullshit. Does that mean that you no longer get to play Halo online?

That's freedom of speech

I'm sorry, but not all of us live in 'merica [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI]. In Canada, we have laws the put exceptions for hate speech in our freedom of speech legislation. Also, it is harrasment.

Lets define our terms, shall we?

[HEADING=2]Psychological harassment[/HEADING]
This is humiliating, intimidating or abusive behaviour which is often difficult to detect leaving no evidence other than victim reports or complaints. This characteristically lowers a person?s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, engineered episodes of intimidation, aggressive actions or repeated gestures. Falling into this category is workplace harassment by individuals or groups mobbing.
Community-based Harassment ? stalking by a group against an individual using repeated distractions that the individual is sensitized to. Media reports of large numbers of coordinated groups stalking individual stalking victims, including a press interview given by an active duty police lieutenant, have described this community-based harassment as gang stalking.

[HEADING=2]Sexual harassment[/HEADING]
Harassment that can happen anywhere but is most common in the workplace, and schools. It involves unwanted and unwelcome words, deeds, actions, gestures, symbols, or behaviours of a sexual nature that make the target feel uncomfortable. Gender and sexual orientation harassment fall into this family. Involving children, "gay" or "homo" is a common insult falling into this category. The main focus of groups working against sexual harassment is protection for women, but protection for men is coming to light in recent years.

Source. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment]

Hon, I'm not talking about legislation. I didn't say, "That's freedom of speech," as in the first amendment to the American Constitution. I said, "I cannot view the freedom of speech as less important than your want to not be offended," as in I view the freedom people have to say what they want on an online game to be more important than others not wanting to be offended.

It's a pity you didn't define harassment using a legal dictionary.

harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker.

Saying a few words over an online match is not harassment. If they DO turn it into harassment (you do mention other people stalking you outside matches and other such things; those things would be characterized as harassment), then sure, ban them. But that's not what this is. They're not saying, "Let's ban everyone who harasses others!" It's, "Let's ban people who say "offensive" things."

 

[LadyZephyr]

Please keep in mind that freedom of speech does not exist in the private sector. When you are using someone else's service and product to broadcast hate speech and abuse, they have the right to take that service away. This is why code of conduct exists. This is how the Escapist can ban you for trolling. This is how Twitter accounts can be shut down for persistent harassment. This is nothing new; you are held accountable for abusing the services you use.

 

[Aeonknight]

This type of attitude from a developer makes me think that the game may be worth taking a look at. If they put even half the amount of time/attention into the game mechanics as what they'll need to monitor for sexist comments and such, the game will be brilliant.

Besides... silly 12 year old trash talkers. Real gamers can get in your head without having to throw around words you learned were "bad" in school.

 

[Erttheking]

snip

I would think that the fact that it is a constant problem on Xbox Live, to the point where some women don't want to plug their mikes in out of fear of having to deal with it, it constitutes as continued and systematic. Pretty sure that the people that do this do it to just about every woman that they meet online, and in the process make said woman feel very uncomfortable. It's not expressing freedom of speech, it's not expressing your opinion or political views, it's being malicious for no good reason. It's disgusting and as far as I'm concerned it deserves to be stamped out.

Please keep in mind that freedom of speech does not exist in the private sector. When you are using someone else's service and product to broadcast hate speech and abuse, they have the right to take that service away. This is why code of conduct exists. This is how the Escapist can ban you for trolling. This is how Twitter accounts can be shut down for persistent harassment. This is nothing new; you are held accountable for abusing the services you use.

Also this.