Halo needs to move away from Spartans if it wants to survive

[Exile714]

I'm truly surprised by how many people are adherent fans of the Halo Expanded Universe. I know you all will scream and cry about this, but I don't think Halo 4 will feature ANY of the established universe besides 1) Master Chief, 2) Cortana and 3) The Forerunner. I don't expect the Covenant, ODST, ONI, Spartans, Humanity or even the Flood to have any part in the next installment.

And I for one couldn't be happier with this possibility. I guess there are a lot of people who disagree. I don't look forward to your future complaints, but I expect them one way or another...

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I agree they should have dropped the whole 'Master Chief against... everyone else' thing, but I think Halo: Reach proved (to me at least) that Spartans can be interesting enough to base the game around. I'm reading the book 'Ghosts of Onyx' right now, and I like it very much. Small scale situation involving familiar characters (mostly Spartans).

Maybe they should have set up a colony on Earth that settles down, then the Covenant/ Forerunners/ Flood(?) show up and start attacking the last remaining humans, which force them to create a new batch of Spartans on the fly, maybe one likeable character does this in an emergency situation. Thus the Spartan IV's are born.

I think they should let you play as a regular marine for once...

Kind of like every other 'realistic' FPS then... terrible idea in my opinion. I like to play as an enhanced human in MJOLNIR armour, with shields and abilities, not a crouch aim and shoot dude.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I'm truly surprised by how many people are adherent fans of the Halo Expanded Universe. I know you all will scream and cry about this, but I don't think Halo 4 will feature ANY of the established universe besides 1) Master Chief, 2) Cortana and 3) The Forerunner. I don't expect the Covenant, ODST, ONI, Spartans, Humanity or even the Flood to have any part in the next installment.

And I for one couldn't be happier with this possibility. I guess there are a lot of people who disagree. I don't look forward to your future complaints, but I expect them one way or another...

so turn it into a game like any other random shit colored shooter that has come out in the past few years? right..

sure i might enjoy the game, and i'm not holding any kind of bias to it, they don't have to have cortana/ODST/ONI/flood/etc...

but throwing out the whole spartan and covenant thing?

that's like gordan freeman not being in HL:EP 3

being a spartan or being on the covenant side is what sets halo apart from other shooters, being in a huge ass MJOLNIR suit with shields and upgrades and combining bullet/plasma weapons to defeat mass amounts of enemies is what makes halo so much fun to play.

 

[itsausernamewhatofit]

Spartans are the only means they have to combat the Covenant effectively, without them they'd probably have lost.

They actually weren't really that effective in combat roles, their primary use in the war was to buy time. They were often sent on suicide missions, they weren't some amazing super weapon the humans had.

Their name sake says it all.

A major fleet base was destroyed by spartans a tactical weapon.

A major base was captured by the spartans...

Sorry but the Spartans are the sole reason their ground fights were able to constantly win, and without the Spartans the Halo's would have been fired and without the Spartans those captured tech would never have occurred. You need to read more lore.

They died a lot. On one of their first missions a spartan basically gets killed by a plasma pistol. A PLASMA PISTOL.

They were ultimately expendable, so all I'm saying is their main purpose wasn't to win the war, they were there to buy time.

I hope you realize that that was one of the first fights between Spartans and the Covenant. These Spartans have had virtually no contact with a new and alien (no pun intended) enemy. They are sent in with almost no knowledge of a technologically superior foe. These are some of the first sets of Mjolnir armor deployed and so they lack many of the changes made over time including the overall performance of the armor as well as energy shields of any sort. Spartans, although not an entire army in themselves, were a major part of the UNSC winning the war and were a driving force behind the UNSC's victories.

EDIT: Oh yeah I forgot to contribute here.
Personally I think the Spartans are what makes Halo. I would love to see a game that made Spartans as deadly as they are in the auxiliary media. Give it a more fluid control scheme, make the Spartans run faster, use guns more accurately, and generally more like they are supposed to be. Compensate for this with large battlefields and enemy spamming. Maybe reinvent the engine to allow for fluid melee combat with elites. That would be a game I would really enjoy, running fast and killing quickly without stopping.

 

[fozzy360]

I'm truly surprised by how many people are adherent fans of the Halo Expanded Universe. I know you all will scream and cry about this, but I don't think Halo 4 will feature ANY of the established universe besides 1) Master Chief, 2) Cortana and 3) The Forerunner. I don't expect the Covenant, ODST, ONI, Spartans, Humanity or even the Flood to have any part in the next installment.

And I for one couldn't be happier with this possibility. I guess there are a lot of people who disagree. I don't look forward to your future complaints, but I expect them one way or another...

Huge fan of the Halo lore, and I agree with this. Plus, I suspect that many people would. I've always told my friends that it'd be great to see how the universe expands outside of the realm of the Human-Covenant War. Bungie has done a fantastic job of establishing a whole universe of possibilities. Considering that 343 will be focusing on the Forerunners is something that kind of seemed inevitable, so 343 just took the next logical step in the franchise. Besides, hasn't 343 already said that the Covenant will play no part in Halo 4?

That said, if they do want to make more games or other media that involve the Human-Covenant conflict, they should just keep releasing other media such as books, comics, or short films or whatever that tell other stories from different perspectives of the war.

I think they should let you play as a regular marine for once...

Kind of like every other 'realistic' FPS then... terrible idea in my opinion. I like to play as an enhanced human in MJOLNIR armour, with shields and abilities, not a crouch aim and shoot dude.

I think it'd be interesting to play a regular soldier on the actual front lines of a battle. Don't take the "every shooter" approach by having you and a small group of marines take out certain objectives, but rather, have you and a ton of soldiers hold the line on some large battlefield.

 

[Hyperactiveman]

When I think of my favorite Halo game... The first one of course I remember getting a much better sense that I'm caught in a firefight more than any of the other games have the Covenant*, the flood** and the forerunner creations***.

You may not agree with me but I thought I got as much storytelling as was needed in Halo 1. Halo 2 and 3 were just copy+paste ideas that sucked and had nothing new to tell that I wanted to know.

*(which at the time I didn't know anything of their side of the story which I believe was a better way of doing things as trying to explain motivation behind an enemy makes them weak)

**(Which unlike any of the other games I actually thought I was being hunted by an unstoppable force that can spread so rapidly and I got a real sense of fear out of it)

***(Which explained their side of story that they want to activate the halos which will kill all sentient life... Which is a motivation that only a robot could see logic in... which is perfect)

 

[Polarity27]

Oh god I have serious feelings about this but will try not to write a book.

One, I'm surprised not to see a mention that both of these videos are video versions of Evolutions short stories. I'm happy to see a video version of The Return, that story was one of my favorites.

Two, *I* would love to see the broader universe in the game. I'd personally kill to play as Cortana, doing some kind of cyber-universe combat. The Matrix: Haloded. The AIs and the Unggoy/Grunts are my two favorites, and I can't imagine playable versions of the latter. But there are a lot of great stories that could be told. Hell, never mind the Covenant side of the Human-Covenant War, what about the Covenant vs. Covenant wars of the distant past? Taming of the Hunters? Grunt Rebellion? Sangheili vs. Prophets?

But there's what I want as a big ol' Halo lore nerd and what Joe Gamer wants. And I don't want to listen to six months of "this game sux. halo is abt master cheif not gay covenent lol" again. (Just writing that was painful enough.) Plus, I did actually miss Mr. & Mrs. John and Cortana during Reach, it's somehow not the same without them. John without Cortana, though, would be a travesty and I hope 343i doesn't go that way.

Three, Spartans aren't emotionally dead. They're just really good at compartmentalization-- keep something in mind about John, when we first meet him he's been at this for what, over 25 YEARS? It's amazing how much "completely exhausted" looks like "emotionally flat". Every time he cares, they die. (Which, again, is why they had better not make Cortana the "shocker sad death scene" of Halo 4. The people that will inevitably be in this should be able to fix her.)

Oh, and btw, there are invariably going to be Forerunners in this in some capacity. Say all you like about Spartans, but even the most thinly characterized Spartan IIIs are better that Forerunners, Forerunners make me snooze. I have every single Halo book, but even I can't manage to finish Crpytum. Forerunners and no Covenant will be... trying.

 

[Batou667]

Microsoft can easily make the new trilogy sell well, but telling a story that doesn't need to be told will just cheapen the franchise.

Not really sure how that relates to my post, but for what it's worth I agree. So many loose ends were tied up at the end of Halo 3 (not to metioned about half the cast died and the human-covenant war came to an end), what the heck are Halo 4, 5 and 6 going to be about? All I can say is: it had better rock my socks, or else they should have just let it lie.

 

[Aprilgold]

Yep, they definitely need to make a game based exclusively on the covenant side of things, or just a game that isn't an fps. Reach was pretty damn good as the characters had more depth, but ODST was probably the most interesting in terms of characters so far (however cheesy it was).

There's a lot of potential that is never going to be used...I doubt 343 industries will innovate much.

I agree, the humans are really much like a metaphor for "The Perfect Race" seriously, Movie Bob did a big picture on this, its one of his first.

 

[Sentox6]

I find this much focus on the narrative content strange to say the least.

I'm a fairly serious Halo player, and I'm there for the multiplayer. Let's face it, that's what the series is critically acclaimed for as a franchise, not its character design or development. And in that area, the mistakes of Reach really need to be undone. I'm quietly optimistic that 343 will come through.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

They're children that were kidnapped and then biologically and mechanically augmented then forced into being perfect soldiers. I'm pretty sure they're not going to have much personality outside of a few friendships.

And this makes them boring characters. I'd much prefer someone with some story behind them.

 

[MercurySteam]

Holy shit, I loved that story! Going to go watch this now.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

I find this much focus on the narrative content strange to say the least.

I'm a fairly serious Halo player, and I'm there for the multiplayer. Let's face it, that's what the series is critically acclaimed for as a franchise, not its character design or development. And in that area, the mistakes of Reach really need to be undone. I'm quietly optimistic that 343 will come through.

FINALLY, someone who gets it. Eh, for all I care Halo: CE was the only one with a campaign.

OP is missing the point a little. Spartans are not sucky characters because Bungie sucks at characterising Spartans, they're sucky characters because Bungie sucks at characterising characters. The only characters which came off as having something of a personality in the whole series were Captain Keyes, CE Cortana, CE Spark and H2 Arby.
I've been replaying the masterpiece that is Halo: CE lately and I'm not sure whether the fact that it's campaign is still insanely better than every other Halo game's past it is hilarious or just sad. Halo's problem past CE isn't that it just sucks narrative wise, pretty much every shooter sucks in that regard, it's that it tries to force you so much to give a shit about shit not worth giving a shit about, going on like it's the greatest thing in the world for the whole damn duration.

Storywise, since Halo sucks most when it tries to do things small scale like focusing solely on one squad in a big battle (ODST and Reach), why the hell don't they show us an overall view of the big battle instead? Someone suggested jumping between characters COD style, which would be a perfect way of showing the conflict as a whole, and finally making this 'Epic War Against a Deadly Alien Evil' they won't shut the hell up about actually seem like a war. Instead of being stuck in the same dude doing the same stuff again while following a disjointed and convulted plot to save the world...again, why not give us a look at the people actually fighting this, 'war' they keep mentioning?
Like one level your a marine, next your an ODST 20 years later, then your a Grunt, then your a Hunter, then your in a giant tank army. You could be sneaking in solo to blow up a bridge or as a small part of a large force. Possibilities, scenarios and roles are practically endless.

Of course, none of this is going to happen and we will most likely get an even crappier version of Reach's campaign with more shitty plot elements (which will just be random crap sprung from nowhere since everyone's dead and the whole thing pretty much finally ended) and just all round suckery-averagery. (It might not but it probably will.)
Halo has several large fucktons of potential, which will unfortunately never be acted on.

And Elites simply aren't that great. Their overall culture and way of life and thinking is essentially honourific Japanese Samurai Bushido Warrior-monk-ish stuff in space, which is not bad but not holyshitomfg brilliant either, and certainly not all that unique.

 

[McNinja]

The Spartans, in the game, were a terrible waste of time, money, and energy. Their armor is almost completely useless, they can't sprint for more than 20 feet, and they SUCK at aiming. The Spartan soldiers should not even exist. Not to mention their armor is completely garbage, with their helmet being of a worth close to that of strapping a squirrel to your noggin, which is to say, none at all.

This is based off of Reach and both its single-player campaign and online multi-player.

The Spartans don't need to be removed, they need to be fixed. Cortana and the Chief are a fantastic pair, unlike everyone in Halo: Reach.

Just so everyone knows, Halo: Reach is a terrible example of anything having to do with Halo.

You do know thats just gameplay and story segregation right? If your Spartan always dies, always misses etc thats because you suck at the game. In the story Noble team essentially completed their missions perfectly.

Its like me playing Splinter Cell and always getting caught, then complaining to the internet that Sam Fisher is the worst spy ever and that he shouldnt have ever made it out of spy school.

That's not entirely what I meant. What I meant by "they can't aim" was that in the game, the target reticle expansion mechanic is balls, through and through. In MP I've fired at people less that 100 ft away, hit them, then fired again, and missed, while the reticle was still on them. It's so much worse with the Magnum, because I've been almost touching somebody and if I fired more than one shot in a row, every shot after the first would miss by a mile. Eventually my friend and I made a joke about how if you pull the trigger to fast after firing a shot, the bullets will just make 90 degree turns out of the barrel.

In SP campaign, I was fine. Except on Legendary.

But anyway, why would they tone down the Spartans power? Or the power of the weapons, or the Elites, or... anything? It's a game. It doesn't have to conform to balance because in Single-player, it won't break anything, and in multi-player, you can just increase the power of elites or whatever. Spartan v. Spartan MP matches would be the same. If Bungie or 343 Studios cannot form a decent single player around a legitimate Spartan than I fear for them and the quality of their games. I mean, you can show the devastation that the Covenant have wrought, you can give them plasma weapon that act like real plasma should (melting things, because plasma isn't another way to say "bullet"), etc. There are dozens of way to make the game fun and exciting even with a regular Spartan.

In Space Marine, you mow down thousands of Orks, Ork Nobz, and Chaos Space Marines. The only ones who put up a real challenge are the Chaos SMs and the Nobz. The single player does not have to be balanced against anything, and in SM multi-player it's just Space Marine against Chaos Space Marine, and the two are balanced against each other.

 

[Delsana]

They're children that were kidnapped and then biologically and mechanically augmented then forced into being perfect soldiers. I'm pretty sure they're not going to have much personality outside of a few friendships.

And this makes them boring characters. I'd much prefer someone with some story behind them.

Boring perhaps, but that's pretty subjective and critical, because that's the story of most soldiers in this day and age... boring.

 

[Kermi]

Why not have a story that alternates between a spartan, and maybe an elite or ODST?

Uh, you never played Halo 2, did you?

 

[Kermi]

The Spartans, in the game, were a terrible waste of time, money, and energy. Their armor is almost completely useless, they can't sprint for more than 20 feet, and they SUCK at aiming. The Spartan soldiers should not even exist. Not to mention their armor is completely garbage, with their helmet being of a worth close to that of strapping a squirrel to your noggin, which is to say, none at all.

This is based off of Reach and both its single-player campaign and online multi-player.

The Spartans don't need to be removed, they need to be fixed. Cortana and the Chief are a fantastic pair, unlike everyone in Halo: Reach.

Just so everyone knows, Halo: Reach is a terrible example of anything having to do with Halo.

The Spartan-III models in Reach were cheap augmented soldiers using technology stolen from the Spartan-II program (Master Chief is a Spartan-II, as was Jorge from Noble team).

The Spartans in Reach are basically the last line of defence against the Covenant, the end result of a war of attrition against humanity that's been running for years.

By the time the story rolls onto the first Halo game pretty much all that's left is Master Chief. It's Master Chief, Cortana and a whole lot of luck based on finding the Halo and other Forerunner technology that allowed humans to fight the Covenant to a standstill and eventually defeat them.

 

[dragsaw]

Just let it die...



It's a good game and all it's just it's time has come

 

[Korten12]

I like the Halo games and I like the storyline in Halo 1-3 and Reach and ODST. What I wanna see more stuff from books and expanded universe become part of the main storyline. I don't mind playing as Master Chief but I wouldn't mind seeing more stuff from the Elites or what happen Kurt's group after "Ghost of Onyx"

I think that they could make a damn good game surrounding the Elites, or even other ex-Covenant races, in a post-Halo 3 universe. With the Prophets dead, it would be interesting to see what these races do and what happens to them after the Covenant breaks apart.

Read Halo: Glasslands, it expands on this. It tells of the post-war universe and continues the story of Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. Plus it has MANY and they have stated that, MANY connections with Halo 4, so if you're interested in that read: Glasslands. I am not done with it but it's fantastic so far.

I'm truly surprised by how many people are adherent fans of the Halo Expanded Universe. I know you all will scream and cry about this, but I don't think Halo 4 will feature ANY of the established universe besides 1) Master Chief, 2) Cortana and 3) The Forerunner. I don't expect the Covenant, ODST, ONI, Spartans, Humanity or even the Flood to have any part in the next installment.

And I for one couldn't be happier with this possibility. I guess there are a lot of people who disagree. I don't look forward to your future complaints, but I expect them one way or another...

Actually they stated that Halo 4 will have LOTS to do with the extended universe, also Humanity, ONI, and all that are all returning. Already been confirmed.