Halo Reach; does it kill the novel?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

It wasn't the only one on the planet, but it was stated to be a major hub for the UNSC's military communication network on Reach. If you want to keep something like that under wraps and secret, then you put it in the middle of nowhere where the chances of someone finding and then subsequently sabotaging it are slim to none. That's really not that unusual.

... it's the major hub? Considering once it went down Reach was cut off? Sorry you don't put that in the boonies. Putting it in the boonies is asking for it to be sabotaged. Heck building only one is asking to be sabotaged. I certainly would have a backup in the middle of the boonies, but the only one/center one? yeah..... no.

 

[Trivun]

-snip-

While you are technically right, your missing the point most people have about this. It's not as much that doesn't "technically" fit with the cannon, it's that it doesn't fit well or smoothly.

It's like Bungie wrote the entire story of Reach with very little consideration for the cannon at all and then used Halsey Journal to go back and "fix" everything that didn't fit.

You talk about things like where the Autumn was during the operation on the Circumference. There is absolutely no indication given at all that the Autumn was anywhere but in space during that time in the original book. It seems funny that they would leave out such an important event considering they cover every other important movement of the Autumn during the battle. Also, it doesn't make any sense that Keys would abandon the Chief on the station without at least letting him know.

Also, I just looked back at my book. The whereabouts of the Autumn where accounted for. While the Chief and Linda where going after the NAV database on the Circumference, the Autumn was taking out the Covenant sniper ship (the one with the precision laser). You don't honestly expect me to believe that in 31 minuets (0616 Hours, Chief, Linda, James leave the Autumn - 0647 Hours Cortana mops up a few Serifs and activates the Shaw-Fujikawa engines) the Autumn chases down a covenant ship, slingshots around a planet to get back to Reach (at this point he actually contacts the Chief, saying he is on his way directly to pick him up), instead he gets a call from command telling him to land back on Reach, he lands on Reach, waits for Noble 6 to arrive, waits for Six to take out several waves of covenant, picks up the fragment from Six and leaves the planet and still makes it to the rendezvous point in time. All this in under 31 minutes. Fu. King. Bull. Shit.

What it all comes down to is that Reach was just fanservice. They put Spartan III's in to make the fans happy, even though it doesn't make sense. They put Halsy in because everyone wanted to see her, even though it doesn't make sense. They put the pillar of Autumn in so everyone could be like "Look at how awesome the Autumn looks in HD!" even though it doesn't make sense.

Of course, Bungie gave into fanservice well before Reach. Look at Contact Harvest. It should not have been Brutes that invaded Harvest, considering it is clearly stated that no one had seen, heard of, or even thought of them until the Spartans encounter them on the Unyielding Hierophant. Not to mention the fact that even though Jenkins joins the military right after Harvest, he's still a Private 20 years later. Either he is the worst soldier ever, or someone wasn't thinking it through when they decided to throw him in to make the fans happy.

By the way, if anyone wants to argue with me, then feel free to let me know your thoughts. I'll enjoy using established canon and logic to dismantle your theories piece by piece .

Seriously... that has got to be the most arrogant and egotistical way to end a post I have ever seen.

Regarding the canon fitting smoothly or whatever, bear in mind that the 'smoothness' of it isn't really important. What matters is that it fits, it doesn't matter how 'smooth' it does as long as everything makes sense, which when you look at everything, it does. Just think of it all as seperate ONI reports on the events of the Covenant War, which take the form of books, games, anime, etc...

Regarding the timeline of the Pillar of Autumn, you do make a good point, and I've edited my original post to make allowances there. However, bear in mind that we're talking about ships that can travel thousands of kilometres per minute, so it makes perfect sense that the Autumn could indeed take down an enemy stealth ship with a slingshot approach and then make it to dry dock on the surface and back to the Circumference in 31 minutes, the given window, particularly if we assume that NOBLE 6 had already been given the orders to get to the dry dock before the Autumn was given said orders, so the Autumn wouldn't have to sit around waiting for NOBLE 6 to arrive first. That makes much more sense given the urgency of the Autumn's role in the space battle, as well as NOBLE 6's urgency in his/her mission. So my original point still stands, I feel.

Regarding 'fanservice', I agree that the newer games are fanservice to some extent, as well as genuinely providing a wider backstory and experience of the Halo universe. However, I completely disagree that everything added in "doesn't make sense". Like it or not, it all makes perfect sense, fanboyism or not. The story is written so that everything that happens makes complete sense. It makes perfect sense that Halsey is around, given the entire point of the first few missions was to get information the Covenant were after about a hidden Forerunner installation under Visegrad. Halsey has been well documented in the books as being interested in such discoveries, so it makes sense she'll be around, especially in ONI bases such as Sword or Olympic Tower, when she is an ONI employee. The Pillar of Autumn being present, as I explained, also makes sense, as it is known already to have been in the Reach system during the planet's fall, and the story explains sensibly why it is there on the surface. The SPARTAN-IIIs being there makes perfect sense, as if you recall it's mentioned as far back as Ghosts of Onyx that Ackerson had been selecting certain SPARTAN-IIIs for his own "personal missions". In fact, Tom, one of the two Beta Company survivors, is almost picked as one until Kurt argues against it. That is heavily implied to be for NOBLE Team, especially when you look at the backstory of each member of NOBLE excluding Jorge.

Just so's you know, Bungie (well, Microsoft, and now 343 Industries) don't simply decide random story ideas for each new project. They have stated repeatedly that they know already what's going to happen, and they have plans for the story and keeping everything canonical, all the time. So if something isn't right then they do make sure it's sorted out quickly with newer releases (unlike the Star Wars EU, for example).

Oh, and regarding Contact Harvest, I'll grant you that one regarding the Jiralhanae. However, the book The Fall Of Reach and a throwaway line from Halo 2 are the only places where they are deemed to have not been seen before, and in Halo 2 that line is Cortana, who hasn't seen them anyway and bases her records on ONI data (which it's implied, and even openly stated, through the series that ONI tend to heavily redact such information in case AIs like Cortana manage to get unauthorized access). The Fall Of Reach passage can be assumed to be either a similar scenario (Halsey may not know much about them either, and again merely has access to ONI data, again heavily redacted). Otherwise, it's a simple mistake which has since been retconned and thus isn't of any importance. Regarding Jenkins, he simply hasn't been promoted. That doesn't make him a bad soldier, though. He was originally Colonial Militia, remember, and barely trained at that. Since then he's been almost permanantly under Sgt. Johnson, and has also been stated as simply being out to get revenge on the Covenant and thus is hardly a career soldier, and his personality is described as the sort of thing that wouldn't really earn you many promotions. So it's no surprise that he's still a Private after 27 years in the service...

Finally, my post may well be arrogant and egotistical. I accept that, and apologise. But when you know a lot about a topic and you're talking to people who seem to not know as much, then what harm is there in trying to set the record straight, especially in a case where the logic happens to favour my theories over someone elses?

 

[Trivun]

According to Reach, a gigantic, pink-glowing Covenant strike force was able to chill out in a big valley that was in a region that the UNSC knew Covenant forces were in, but it took them SEVERAL WEEKS to bother to send a recon team in to find it. Nevermind that the area should have been under constant surveillance that entire time, and probably effectively was given the then-friendly militia presence in the area (In the hills above the strike force. But apparantly, when the recon force went through only a few hundred yards from a really good view of the pink glowing area, they knew nothing. Yeah okay whatever.). But no, the pink glow which would have easily been visible from orbit managed to evade everyone the entire time.


My take? I'll start worrying about how Reach breaks canon when I manage to figure out how Reach even makes sense internally. At this point, the only plausible explaination that I can come up with is that the entire UNSC population is deaf and blind. Maybe Spartan augmentation, according to Reach, is the process that makes your eyes and ears work.

You do realise that the entire area where the Covenant were located was actually a top secret place where ONI were conducting a survey, under one Doctor Laszlo Sorvad, into ancient (read: Forerunner) ruins under the surface? That's mentioned in the game by Halsey, but more importantly, discussed openly in the Journal that came with the Limited Edition. Thus no civilians knew about the Covenant presence. Regarding the 'pinkish glow', the 'glow' in the area was in no way big enough to see from orbit, and could only be seen on the ground within the area, obviously, which was in the restricted ONI controlled area. Also, anyone who did find out was then killed by said stealth force, who got onto the planet using a stealth ship that was cloaked in a similar way to UNSC Prowlers (though even better, what with Covenant active camo technology). When the first recon team was sent in, they too were killed. That's why it apparently took weeks to send NOBLE Team in. Because it took weeks to reach a position where they were needed, after other teams and civilians were killed. After that, and the first mission of the game, we're dealing with a massive fight against an entrenched enemy while also trying to keep the public unaware and safe (at least, until the full invasion and evacuation begin), so again, everything does indeed make sense overall...

 

[RatRace123]

The book told the story better, so I like to think of the book as canon and the game as a dramatization of the events.

 

[killedinadream]

Continuity is a difficult, fiddly bastard that is difficult to reconcile in any given series with multiple mediums or authors. I have no real problems with this as a thing in itself, nor do I have problems with any real continuity errors. My problems mostly stem from Halo: Reach being a poorly written game.

I love Halo: Reach. It has excellent gameplay, fun co-op, and good multiplayer modes like firefight. Story wise, it feels like a massive waste of potential.

The Fall of Reach really is a book more about the Spartan-II program and Captain Keys and the events that occur between John's childhood and the actual fall of the planet Reach.
Halo: Reach tells the story of the actual event from a different perspective. While I respect this disparity of approach, especially since Nylund's book would be incredibly difficult to translate into a game since the Spartan-IIs were on Reach for an incredibly short period of time, I feel like the execution could have been more adequate.

That having been said the game doesn't seem to try to fit into established cannon at all in terms of the actual invasion and glassing of reach; instead it tries to follow a contrived series of events in order to make something on reach matter.

As a MacGuffin, having your character as the courier of Cortana seems to be as good a means as any to make sure that the events your character goes through actually matter. Otherwise you get a game with something that Microsoft can't really package: a game without some sort of half-assed message. Instead of focusing on futility of conflict and having the actions of Noble Six mean nothing, the game focuses on sacrifice. Unfortunately the game uses some utterly paltry deaths that have nothing to do with sacrifice at all. Characters really just die left and right, they get sniped, they substitute ammo against things that you can kill in Halo 3 or ODST with minimal effort. I'd say three of the five deaths were actually decent in terms of storytelling for the concept of sacrifice, but they still feel like wasted potential.

Halo 1 was the only Halo game that I felt had any real heart to it. It came across as this overwhelming feeling of oppression, conflict, and survival. A man and the voice in his head have to form an active resistance, rescue the Captain, beat the covenant, find out what halo is for, and finally save humanity from an unknowable threat to all sentient life.

I feel like Reach could have stayed in easily established cannon and been a better game for it. Instead it feels like they wrote a story that contradicts one I love (The Fall of Reach) and then half-assed some explanations in order to make everything flow.

 

[Tupolev]

You do realise that the entire area where the Covenant were located was actually a top secret place where ONI were conducting a survey, under one Doctor Laszlo Sorvad, into ancient (read: Forerunner) ruins under the surface? That's mentioned in the game by Halsey, but more importantly, discussed openly in the Journal that came with the Limited Edition. Thus no civilians knew about the Covenant presence.

Yes.

Regarding the 'pinkish glow', the 'glow' in the area was in no way big enough to see from orbit, and could only be seen on the ground within the area, obviously,

Reach's satellite network would, if the UNSC had any sense at all, have been scanning the Viery territory for Covenant. Because that's what people do when they're trying to find enemy forces and they have satellites.
Modern-day satellite systems over earth have good enough resolution to pick up individual people, but you're arguing that Reach's network in 2552 can't pick up entire armies that give off pink glows and have 800m-long ships floating about over them? Seems implausible.

I'm fully aware that civilian knowledge of it was suppressed, by the way, that's not the point I'm making (though I'd be fully willing to make it, since the Szurdok Ridge area was apparantly open enough that militia groups were able to roam around).

When the first recon team was sent in, they too were killed. That's why it apparently took weeks to send NOBLE Team in. Because it took weeks to reach a position where they were needed, after other teams and civilians were killed. After that, and the first mission of the game, we're dealing with a massive fight against an entrenched enemy while also trying to keep the public unaware and safe (at least, until the full invasion and evacuation begin), so again, everything does indeed make sense overall...

And this is another implausible point: with the Covenant obviously knowing about one of humanities most vital colonies, the UNSC decided to bumble around for two weeks before getting serious about reconnaisance? No, that doesn't make sense.



Actually, you know what? I take back my point about them being deaf and blind. The way to make it make sense is if the UNSC is just plain stupid. We're talking about an organization that waited until the Covenant big guns showed up before realizing that the Covenant big guns would show up (Despite Covenant knowledge of human colonies having previously previously tended to result in the Covenant wanting to burn those colonies. Them being surprised when the supercarrier revealed itself is one of the biggest displays of idiocy in game characters ever. Jorge actually thought he was securing the colony by destroying the Covenant forces present as if the Covenant didn't have communications systems? Yeah okay whatever.). So, I suppose it is internally consistant, assuming that ONI and the UNSC have the strategic prowess of a drunk infant kitten.
Seriously, the first few levels of the game try to pass it off as "oh, it's okay, it's just a Covenant scout force. We repell them, we'll be fine!" Do they not know what scout forces actually are?

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

The problem is they don't work with the creator's of the other media closely. Insomniac games has made 2 games in the Resistance series, and one book, a series of comics, and a PSP game (by a different company) have all been released. Because the creator's of the games helped the creator's of the PS3 games helped the other people develop their media there aren't these kinds of problems and the other content actually helps support the game's story. I mean I think the only issue between all of them is that in the book one enemy is mentioned with it's pre-launch name, and not what it was called in the game (book: mauler game: marauder) and the PSP game developers made some weird enemies for no reason. But this is also do to the fact that this stuff was created alongside the development of the game which is good and bad. It's good since the games and books can integrate more into the story so they fit together, but it's bad mainly since some of the info given to the other developers may not be final (i.e. character names or designs)

 

[pearsmb06]

It is honestly mystifying to me how anyone could care as much as you all seem to.

 

[Jezzascmezza]

I kind of prefer the story from the game rather than the one that was in the novel.
But they do completely contradict each other.

 

[Tupolev]

It is honestly mystifying to me how anyone could care as much as you all seem to.

Because as much as people who don't pay attention to the Halo franchise pass it off as shallow and boring, a fair number of people are involved in the story, and thus get pretty ticked off when it's seemingly tossed to the wayside and stomped on.

It's kind of like "Han shot first" except that, unlike Star Wars, not everyone likes Halo.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

It is honestly mystifying to me how anyone could care as much as you all seem to.

Because as much as people who don't pay attention to the Halo franchise pass it off as shallow and boring, a fair number of people are involved in the story, and thus get pretty ticked off when it's seemingly tossed to the wayside and stomped on.

It's kind of like "Han shot first" except that, unlike Star Wars, not everyone likes Halo.

Yeah, um. Here's the thing. It's like saying if the story in all the star wars movies sucked, that it was okay because if you read all the books, it is a deep and interesting story, and in that point, it means the stories of the movies don't suck.

 

[Pyode]

Regarding the canon fitting smoothly or whatever, bear in mind that the 'smoothness' of it isn't really important. What matters is that it fits, it doesn't matter how 'smooth' it does as long as everything makes sense, which when you look at everything, it does. Just think of it all as seperate ONI reports on the events of the Covenant War, which take the form of books, games, anime, etc...

I would say smoothness absolutely matters. It's the difference between telling a story from start to finish in a clear, concise manner and telling a story half way though, coming up with a new idea that doesn't fit with the story and hacking up the first half to make the new idea work. I think most people would agree that the former makes for a much better story.

Regarding the timeline of the Pillar of Autumn, you do make a good point, and I've edited my original post to make allowances there. However, bear in mind that we're talking about ships that can travel thousands of kilometres per minute, so it makes perfect sense that the Autumn could indeed take down an enemy stealth ship with a slingshot approach and then make it to dry dock on the surface and back to the Circumference in 31 minutes, the given window, particularly if we assume that NOBLE 6 had already been given the orders to get to the dry dock before the Autumn was given said orders, so the Autumn wouldn't have to sit around waiting for NOBLE 6 to arrive first. That makes much more sense given the urgency of the Autumn's role in the space battle, as well as NOBLE 6's urgency in his/her mission. So my original point still stands, I feel.

No, it doesn't make perfect sense. First of all, it's not 31 minuets to get back to the Circumference. The 31 minuets includes retrieving the Chief, putting Linda into cryo, the Chief traveling up to the flight deck and having a conversation with Keys and then already being well on their way out of the system. On top of that, you have to factor in the fact that the Pillar would have had to be completely docked no later than the point where Noble 6 enters the "Boneyard" area of the level, still pretty far off from the ship. On top of that, after the slingshot, Keys specifically told the Chief he would be at the rendezvous point in five minuets, and there is no mention of him being late. So, no. Your original point doesn't stand.

Regarding 'fanservice', I agree that the newer games are fanservice to some extent, as well as genuinely providing a wider backstory and experience of the Halo universe. However, I completely disagree that everything added in "doesn't make sense". Like it or not, it all makes perfect sense, fanboyism or not.

I think I've already done a good job of proving that it doesn't "all" make sense and it certainly isn't "perfect."

The story is written so that everything that happens makes complete sense. It makes perfect sense that Halsey is around, given the entire point of the first few missions was to get information the Covenant were after about a hidden Forerunner installation under Visegrad. Halsey has been well documented in the books as being interested in such discoveries, so it makes sense she'll be around, especially in ONI bases such as Sword or Olympic Tower, when she is an ONI employee.

It it also thoroughly documented that she was completely amazed, baffled, and confused at the existence of a Forerunner structure on Reach in the Fall of Reach. This wouldn't make any sense if she had already been studying one at another location.

The Pillar of Autumn being present, as I explained, also makes sense, as it is known already to have been in the Reach system during the planet's fall, and the story explains sensibly why it is there on the surface.

As I explained, it doesn't.

The SPARTAN-IIIs being there makes perfect sense, as if you recall it's mentioned as far back as Ghosts of Onyx that Ackerson had been selecting certain SPARTAN-IIIs for his own "personal missions". In fact, Tom, one of the two Beta Company survivors, is almost picked as one until Kurt argues against it. That is heavily implied to be for NOBLE Team, especially when you look at the backstory of each member of NOBLE excluding Jorge.

I can't really refute you there but it still reeks of fanservice to me and I honestly don't remember any of that. Also, isn't Kat supposed to be a survivor of one of the missions in the book that expressly states, in no uncertain terms, that no one survived (except Tom and Lucy)?

Just so's you know, Bungie (well, Microsoft, and now 343 Industries) don't simply decide random story ideas for each new project. They have stated repeatedly that they know already what's going to happen, and they have plans for the story and keeping everything canonical, all the time. So if something isn't right then they do make sure it's sorted out quickly with newer releases (unlike the Star Wars EU, for example).

I am well aware of the "Halo Bible" as it's known, and I used to believe in it until I read the giant pile of fan service that is Contact Harvest. The inconsistencies that came with Reach only serve to show even more that they have abandoned it (assuming it ever existed in the first place).

Oh, and regarding Contact Harvest, I'll grant you that one regarding the Jiralhanae. However, the book The Fall Of Reach and a throwaway line from Halo 2 are the only places where they are deemed to have not been seen before, and in Halo 2 that line is Cortana, who hasn't seen them anyway and bases her records on ONI data (which it's implied, and even openly stated, through the series that ONI tend to heavily redact such information in case AIs like Cortana manage to get unauthorized access). The Fall Of Reach passage can be assumed to be either a similar scenario (Halsey may not know much about them either, and again merely has access to ONI data, again heavily redacted). Otherwise, it's a simple mistake which has since been retconned and thus isn't of any importance.

If they had simply never been discussed at all in the books and didn't appear at all before Halo 2, I might be inclined to give you that one. But it is very clear in the Spartan's encounter with the Brutes in First Strike that they have no idea what the hell they are. It then makes no sense for all of the soldiers on Reach to not only be familiar with them, but already have a widely used nickname. As for Contact harvest, Brutes where the first alien species ever seen by man (not counting the guy killed by Lighter-Than-Some). If you expect me to believe that the Spartans where never informed about the very powerful, very deadly race that made first contact, to which there where many witnesses, you're out of luck.

Regarding Jenkins, he simply hasn't been promoted. That doesn't make him a bad soldier, though. He was originally Colonial Militia, remember, and barely trained at that. Since then he's been almost permanantly under Sgt. Johnson, and has also been stated as simply being out to get revenge on the Covenant and thus is hardly a career soldier, and his personality is described as the sort of thing that wouldn't really earn you many promotions. So it's no surprise that he's still a Private after 27 years in the service...

Exactly, he was originally Colonial Militia, meaning he went into the service with combat training, as well as experience fighting the Covenant. As for being permanently under Johnson's command... that isn't any less of a stretch. Not to mention he would be Johnson's right hand man, meaning he would at least be a Corporal (still ridiculous for someone in the service for 27 years). I don't get what your talking about when you say his "personality" would restrict his promotions. He served just fine under Johnson. He was an excellent marksman and he almost beat Johnson in a war game, even with his minimal and rushed training.

Even throwing all that out, being a private after 27 years is just absurd. Period. You'd be hard pressed to find a Private (or whatever the first rank is of any branch of military in any country) that had been in the service for more than 5 or so years, let alone 27.

Finally, my post may well be arrogant and egotistical. I accept that, and apologise. But when you know a lot about a topic and you're talking to people who seem to not know as much, then what harm is there in trying to set the record straight, especially in a case where the logic happens to favour my theories over someone elses?

Wow. You go right from apologizing to saying the exact same pompous rhetoric. Nice work.

 

[coalheartly]

:/ I guess none of you have had to put up with Warhammer 40k canon. It makes this OMGCONTRADICTION seem fine. There are some aspects to the 40k universe that WE ARNT SURE IF THEY ARE CANON ANYMORE. there is a good 20someodd years worth of lore, and finding out what is, and what isnt canon anymore is like pulling teeth. as many have stated, the Reach discrepancies are explained, and Word of God by Bungie as solid ground. in 40k, some characters just simply do not exist anymore. and all Games Workshops says is...OH LOL, DA WARP WORKS IN MYSTEROIUS WAYZZZ

 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

:/ I guess none of you have had to put up with Warhammer 40k canon. It makes this OMGCONTRADICTION seem fine. There are some aspects to the 40k universe that WE ARNT SURE IF THEY ARE CANON ANYMORE. there is a good 20someodd years worth of lore, and finding out what is, and what isnt canon anymore is like pulling teeth. as many have stated, the Reach discrepancies are explained, and Word of God by Bungie as solid ground. in 40k, some characters just simply do not exist anymore. and all Games Workshops says is...OH LOL, DA WARP WORKS IN MYSTEROIUS WAYZZZ

true but word of god by bungie just means they wasted hiring numerous authors to write back stories for the halo lore for the past decade. I'm actually kind of glad halo is done... It would have fallen from grace with any more continuation.

For people warned of "don't be like these other series." Bungie mucked about that thin line. Hell If people wanted to - I could probably have written a better setting to the fall of Reach battle for a example, that probably (underlined for emphasis) would have been just as epic.

 

[coalheartly]

:/ I guess none of you have had to put up with Warhammer 40k canon. It makes this OMGCONTRADICTION seem fine. There are some aspects to the 40k universe that WE ARNT SURE IF THEY ARE CANON ANYMORE. there is a good 20someodd years worth of lore, and finding out what is, and what isnt canon anymore is like pulling teeth. as many have stated, the Reach discrepancies are explained, and Word of God by Bungie as solid ground. in 40k, some characters just simply do not exist anymore. and all Games Workshops says is...OH LOL, DA WARP WORKS IN MYSTEROIUS WAYZZZ

true but word of god by bungie just means they wasted hiring numerous authors to write back stories for the halo lore for the past decade. I'm actually kind of glad halo is done... It would have fallen from grace with any more continuation.

For people warned of "don't be like these other series." Bungie mucked about that thin line. Hell If people wanted to - I could probably have written a better setting to the fall of Reach battle for a example, that probably (underlined for emphasis) would have been just as epic.

numerous authors writing 40k lore for the past 20 years. ohdeargodweredoibegin. Ciaphas Cain-not enough grimdark
SPACE MARINE BOOK 700-TO MUCH GRIMDARK
Horus Heresy series-Books are great, but, they have done major retcons
Retcons that arent retcons, retcons that we didnt know were retcons.

 

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

:/ I guess none of you have had to put up with Warhammer 40k canon. It makes this OMGCONTRADICTION seem fine. There are some aspects to the 40k universe that WE ARNT SURE IF THEY ARE CANON ANYMORE. there is a good 20someodd years worth of lore, and finding out what is, and what isnt canon anymore is like pulling teeth. as many have stated, the Reach discrepancies are explained, and Word of God by Bungie as solid ground. in 40k, some characters just simply do not exist anymore. and all Games Workshops says is...OH LOL, DA WARP WORKS IN MYSTEROIUS WAYZZZ

true but word of god by bungie just means they wasted hiring numerous authors to write back stories for the halo lore for the past decade. I'm actually kind of glad halo is done... It would have fallen from grace with any more continuation.

For people warned of "don't be like these other series." Bungie mucked about that thin line. Hell If people wanted to - I could probably have written a better setting to the fall of Reach battle for a example, that probably (underlined for emphasis) would have been just as epic.

numerous authors writing 40k lore for the past 20 years. ohdeargodweredoibegin. Ciaphas Cain-not enough grimdark
SPACE MARINE BOOK 700-TO MUCH GRIMDARK
Horus Heresy series-Books are great, but, they have done major retcons
Retcons that arent retcons, retcons that we didnt know were retcons.

So.... It's like the DC/comic book universe? XD

 

[strigon33]

Didn't the people at bungie say they were altering the canon? Thats what I heard anyway...

 

[coalheartly]

without the devil messing around with peter parkers marriage.
and with more chainswords and GRIMDARKKKKKKK
also an entire species have been retconned from space rats to SPACE WORMTHINGS

also one of the main alien races went from having hoofed feet, to just having messed up toes...overnight. but it all breaks down to to many cooks in the kitchen, all trying to cook the same dish...in everyway possible.

 

[imnot]

You guys are arguing over a glorified Doom clone about shooting space-muslims.

Who the fuck cares what's canon? Believe whatever you want.

Did you seriously just write that?
*sigh*

Arr here be intellagence!

Well done good person I shake you warmly by the hand.

 

[imnot]

Regarding the 'pinkish glow', the 'glow' in the area was in no way big enough to see from orbit, and could only be seen on the ground within the area, obviously,

Reach's satellite network would, if the UNSC had any sense at all, have been scanning the Viery territory for Covenant. Because that's what people do when they're trying to find enemy forces and they have satellites.
Modern-day satellite systems over earth have good enough resolution to pick up individual people, but you're arguing that Reach's network in 2552 can't pick up entire armies that give off pink glows and have 800m-long ships floating about over them? Seems implausible.

Im pretty sure the spires (*im guessing thats what your on about) where under like cliffs or something

look at the background.